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[TSL] Ro32 Day2 - Page 332

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Upset about the results? Want to vent your rage? Use this instead
RedDragon571
Profile Joined March 2011
United States633 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-20 22:29:45
March 20 2011 22:28 GMT
#6621
I think Jinro may have been arrogant and not prepared much for this game. Looks like Morrow did more research than Jinro. I'm waiting for the day MC will have to swallow his pride, when someone prepares some new builds to deal with his style. Although MC is super good and player very solid and safe, but I believe he could be beat by unorthodox style someday. I guess Zerg needs a Bisu build! I'll get working on it!
Qaatar
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
March 20 2011 22:28 GMT
#6622
On March 21 2011 07:26 PlaGuE_R wrote:
please stop bringing july zerg into this, that guy is terrible plain and simple. he got to the finals through an easy bracket by stringing 6 pools and all ins and got facerolled the second he faced an opponent that doesnt crumble to all ins.


Wow, troll much? I don't think I should even dignify such a bad blatant troll attempt with a response. -_-

User was warned for this post
Tef
Profile Joined April 2008
Sweden443 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-20 22:29:19
March 20 2011 22:28 GMT
#6623
It was very wierd that Jinro didn't build 2 bunkers in the third game. Deciding not to put down 2 bunkers if you are uncertain about the bane bust is just as stupid as not putting down cannons if your scouting probe is taken out while doing a forge FE.

A saying comes to mind:
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Dont fuck up, dont fuck yourself
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
March 20 2011 22:29 GMT
#6624
On March 21 2011 07:25 phisku wrote:
aaaah morrow allways putting the abusives strat in the spot light, first 5 rax reaper taking idra then baneling bust taking jinro.
If i'd play zerg i would use it as much as possible before any nerf ^^ like i did with the 5 rax reaper.


Its not really even abusive. Kryix did this style first btw in GSL3 I believe? Just terrans started making bunkers blindly and holding it off. The strategy hasn't been used as much because terrans are doing alot better at holding it off.

Sadly Jinro even after seeing it twice made his bunkers too late to be able to hold it off.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Gobe
Profile Joined November 2010
210 Posts
March 20 2011 22:29 GMT
#6625
If you go a build that is vulnerable to baneling busts, the lose to a baneling bust, why is that imbalanced?
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
March 20 2011 22:29 GMT
#6626
On March 21 2011 07:23 ParasitJonte wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:15 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:13 hugman wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.

I disagree but w/e we'll never know
That bust in G1 hit before blue flame would've been done, and Morrow had an assload of speedlings

That bust in G1 hits at the same time you get blueflame on hellions. You lose 2 barracks but you hold everything without losing scvs. Again, this series was totally disappointing and I really don't respect Morrow decision to blindly cheese in g1 and g3 in such an important tournament.


The third game was questionable. I was looking at the production tab and praying for drones. Then all those lings came... In the deciding match, cross-positions, I really don't get why you would want to rely on your opponent to not defend a bust when you've done it in the two previous games.

But game 1, in a best of three, I think was really smart. Jinro didn't see it coming at all. Don't get why you would ever lose respect for him because of that. StarCraft is a game of hidden information. You have to bluff a certain percentage, otherwise you won't win as much as you should.

The way Morrow played in g1 and g3 are blind builds who can't rely on scouting. In a progamer level game you simply don't have the tools to scout either the 2 base baneling bust or what the terran is doing in time. Morrow knows this well and he decided to go for some blind risk build, showing that he felt terribly inferior and wouldn't want to face Jinro in a straight match. Knowing Morrow as a very rational person and player I don't respect his choice to not put his real decision skills in a longer game. This was just blind build order counter with a 50% ratio of win/loss.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
March 20 2011 22:30 GMT
#6627
On March 21 2011 07:25 phisku wrote:
aaaah morrow allways putting the abusives strat in the spot light, first 5 rax reaper taking idra then baneling bust taking jinro.
If i'd play zerg i would use it as much as possible before any nerf ^^ like i did with the 5 rax reaper.


I haven't seen many people say baneling busts are overpowered (except on maps like scrap) before todays games. You don't think there might be a reason for this that have nothing to do with balance?
Banelings are too cute to blow up
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
March 20 2011 22:31 GMT
#6628
Wow who can stop MC now? I can't believe Huk and Jinro are out this early on. Koreans are falling.
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
JimSocks
Profile Joined February 2009
United States968 Posts
March 20 2011 22:31 GMT
#6629
he scouted 14cc in both 1 and 3.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
March 20 2011 22:31 GMT
#6630
On March 21 2011 07:29 MYM.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:23 ParasitJonte wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:15 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:13 hugman wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.

I disagree but w/e we'll never know
That bust in G1 hit before blue flame would've been done, and Morrow had an assload of speedlings

That bust in G1 hits at the same time you get blueflame on hellions. You lose 2 barracks but you hold everything without losing scvs. Again, this series was totally disappointing and I really don't respect Morrow decision to blindly cheese in g1 and g3 in such an important tournament.


The third game was questionable. I was looking at the production tab and praying for drones. Then all those lings came... In the deciding match, cross-positions, I really don't get why you would want to rely on your opponent to not defend a bust when you've done it in the two previous games.

But game 1, in a best of three, I think was really smart. Jinro didn't see it coming at all. Don't get why you would ever lose respect for him because of that. StarCraft is a game of hidden information. You have to bluff a certain percentage, otherwise you won't win as much as you should.

The way Morrow played in g1 and g3 are blind builds who can't rely on scouting. In a progamer level game you simply don't have the tools to scout either the 2 base baneling bust or what the terran is doing in time. Morrow knows this well and he decided to go for some blind risk build, showing that he felt terribly inferior and wouldn't want to face Jinro in a straight match. Knowing Morrow as a very rational person and player I don't respect his choice to not put his real decision skills in a longer game. This was just blind build order counter with a 50% ratio of win/loss.


Most people, even Morrow would probably say Jinro is the better player so a 50 % chance is actually pretty good if you are in Morrow's shoes.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
Doppelganger
Profile Joined May 2010
488 Posts
March 20 2011 22:31 GMT
#6631
Thorzain pointed out that there is a huge vulnerability in an 14 cc build that he just was told an hour before the game. So I think we see the development of SC right before our eyes. Just one day later and 14 cc is no longer viable. I do not believe that this is some blind play, or coinflip! It is the natural development of SC 2.
Skyze
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada2324 Posts
March 20 2011 22:32 GMT
#6632
man my brackets are sucking.. Huk and Jinro losing? While im not totally surprised, its pretty insane.

btw; its hillarious that people are even calling MorroW a cheeser for these games rofl.. on the one hand, im glad to hear someone actually say zerg has a "cheese" (people usually only bitch at 4gates around here) but on the other hand, its ridiculous what this community has come to, everything except getting every single expo on the map for 2 hour games is "cheese" or "all-in" these days.. how ridiculous. I guess people enjoyed the Nightend vs Boxer games yesterday (yawnn)
Canada Gaming ~~ The-Feared
PlaGuE_R
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
France1151 Posts
March 20 2011 22:32 GMT
#6633
On March 21 2011 07:28 Qaatar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:26 PlaGuE_R wrote:
please stop bringing july zerg into this, that guy is terrible plain and simple. he got to the finals through an easy bracket by stringing 6 pools and all ins and got facerolled the second he faced an opponent that doesnt crumble to all ins.


Wow, troll much? I don't think I should even dignify such a bad blatant troll attempt with a response. -_-


because you'd rather attribute the fact that he got facerolled by MC to imbalance rather then the fact that he plainly is bad at sc2, regardless of how good he was at BW

User was warned for this post
TLO FIGHTING | me all in, he drone drone drone, me win - SK.MC | JINROLLED! | KraToss for the win
Sanjuro
Profile Joined November 2010
Indonesia252 Posts
March 20 2011 22:32 GMT
#6634
the instant rage button does wonders for my rage, thanks
im the Villain of the Story, im not meant to be saved
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
March 20 2011 22:33 GMT
#6635
On March 21 2011 07:31 nihlon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2011 07:29 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:23 ParasitJonte wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:15 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:13 hugman wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:09 MYM.ClouD wrote:
On March 21 2011 07:02 hugman wrote:
@MYM.ClouD:
On Taldarim Morrow scouted the 3-rax and saw all the geysers
I don't remember how much he scouted on Crevasse but probably something similar

It wasn't as blind as you make it out to be

It was blind because you always make the 3 barracks wall if you open FE, then you follow up with any of the common FE build orders. It was blind decision and it turned out right but if Jinro decided to open marine blueflame hellions (like he did for example vs idra in their most recent games) he would have had a build order win. I think these games were terrible and didn't show 10% of the awesomeness this bo3 could have had.

I disagree but w/e we'll never know
That bust in G1 hit before blue flame would've been done, and Morrow had an assload of speedlings

That bust in G1 hits at the same time you get blueflame on hellions. You lose 2 barracks but you hold everything without losing scvs. Again, this series was totally disappointing and I really don't respect Morrow decision to blindly cheese in g1 and g3 in such an important tournament.


The third game was questionable. I was looking at the production tab and praying for drones. Then all those lings came... In the deciding match, cross-positions, I really don't get why you would want to rely on your opponent to not defend a bust when you've done it in the two previous games.

But game 1, in a best of three, I think was really smart. Jinro didn't see it coming at all. Don't get why you would ever lose respect for him because of that. StarCraft is a game of hidden information. You have to bluff a certain percentage, otherwise you won't win as much as you should.

The way Morrow played in g1 and g3 are blind builds who can't rely on scouting. In a progamer level game you simply don't have the tools to scout either the 2 base baneling bust or what the terran is doing in time. Morrow knows this well and he decided to go for some blind risk build, showing that he felt terribly inferior and wouldn't want to face Jinro in a straight match. Knowing Morrow as a very rational person and player I don't respect his choice to not put his real decision skills in a longer game. This was just blind build order counter with a 50% ratio of win/loss.


Most people, even Morrow would probably say Jinro is the better player so a 50 % chance is actually pretty good if you are in Morrow's shoes.

Then I feel I have every right to be disappointed at the state of the game and at the fact this series could be awesome and it turned out to be some cheesy bullshit.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Canucklehead
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada5074 Posts
March 20 2011 22:33 GMT
#6636
I cried when jinro built a perfect wall in with ebay and factory, but then floated factory away just before the bust came.
Top 10 favourite pros: MKP, MVP, MC, Nestea, DRG, Jaedong, Flash, Life, Creator, Leenock
DonaldLee
Profile Joined August 2010
586 Posts
March 20 2011 22:34 GMT
#6637
On March 21 2011 07:32 Skyze wrote:
man my brackets are sucking.. Huk and Jinro losing? While im not totally surprised, its pretty insane.

btw; its hillarious that people are even calling MorroW a cheeser for these games rofl.. on the one hand, im glad to hear someone actually say zerg has a "cheese" (people usually only bitch at 4gates around here) but on the other hand, its ridiculous what this community has come to, everything except getting every single expo on the map for 2 hour games is "cheese" or "all-in" these days.. how ridiculous. I guess people enjoyed the Nightend vs Boxer games yesterday (yawnn)


It's more MorroW hating than Zerg hating judging by the number of times 5 Rax Reaper has been mentioned...
ReacH.
Profile Joined November 2010
Scotland333 Posts
March 20 2011 22:34 GMT
#6638
On March 21 2011 07:31 Doppelganger wrote:
Thorzain pointed out that there is a huge vulnerability in an 14 cc build that he just was told an hour before the game. So I think we see the development of SC right before our eyes. Just one day later and 14 cc is no longer viable. I do not believe that this is some blind play, or coinflip! It is the natural development of SC 2.


ThorZaIN double fast expoed.
barrykp
Profile Joined August 2010
Ireland174 Posts
March 20 2011 22:34 GMT
#6639
The way Morrow played in g1 and g3 are blind builds who can't rely on scouting. In a progamer level game you simply don't have the tools to scout either the 2 base baneling bust or what the terran is doing in time. Morrow knows this well and he decided to go for some blind risk build, showing that he felt terribly inferior and wouldn't want to face Jinro in a straight match. Knowing Morrow as a very rational person and player I don't respect his choice to not put his real decision skills in a longer game. This was just blind build order counter with a 50% ratio of win/loss.
I don't think it was as blind as you say. In addition to the CC and the barracks to wall off he also got a good grasp on the marine numbers, and the tech lab on the outside of the wall researching stim. Morrow knew what was on the other side of the wall.
Lecture me some more on how to play please; I need help.
Doppelganger
Profile Joined May 2010
488 Posts
March 20 2011 22:34 GMT
#6640
On March 21 2011 07:33 Canucklehead wrote:
I cried when jinro built a perfect wall in with ebay and factory, but then floated factory away just before the bust came.


I jelled at the screen that he should put it back ^^
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