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When Naniwa began to snipe Idra's third the supplies were 110 against 170.
Everyone who understands the game should /facepalm seeing how easily protoss can be ukillable. The natural is safe thanks to the wall, the army is shooting and is invincible thanks to forcefields. The only way zerg could have cleaned this attack is by having randomly built a nydus network then made a way out at the top right corner (or is it ?)
And didn't we sene him moving an overlord to check the rocks hp? I think he was aware of that,
It's not about Idra "making excuses" or just bitching around, it is about a player who has more game knowledge than any of us calling for justice after a game he should have won.
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On March 14 2011 06:21 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 06:13 Tachion wrote:On March 14 2011 06:11 Skyze wrote:
Not to mention ragequitting at first sight of a voidray in game 1 when he was still ahead???
I would really love to hear the thought that went into this comment. Please please show me how he was ahead when he gg'd out. He had map control, enough roaches to hold off any kind of warp counter attack.. had lair and even tho he didnt have a hydra den started, 3 queens EASILY takes out one voidray, esp one that still has half the map to travel. The game was very even at that point, and as I said I think idra was ahead even, he had better drone saturation and more units on the map, along with a solid tech tree up. Of course game could of went either way, but NO WAY should he of ragequit the game at that point, it was at least 50/50 at that point in the game.. and to the kid saying why dont I "prove it"... uh, go watch July in GSL. Hes not playing european protoss players, hes playing Top level GSL Protoss in AnyPro and just 3-1'd him. If Protoss was so much better than zerg, how did July win?
Youre talking about 1 zerg in the world getting into the final, let me ask you- where are the other zergs? Why are the better players right now all protosses? Why can Jinro not figure out a way to beat toss effectively? Why cant a zerg do the same? .. right.
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I think it is really funny that the majority of people claiming he had the ability to do something about that don't even play Zerg. Yes, he can be BM at times----but it is due to shear frustration, and that is easy to see.
He is correct though, and pointing to one or two Zergs who have found a small measure of success against it(and by either an all in or two base push) means absolutely nothing. Hilariously the people saying this always believe the onus should be on the Zerg, when if the roles were reversed they'd have an aneurysm.
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On March 14 2011 06:15 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 06:10 BigBoy22 wrote:On March 14 2011 06:08 JoeSchmoe wrote:On March 14 2011 06:06 BigBoy22 wrote:On March 14 2011 05:34 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
cruncher is next Dont know why tyler is talking, IdrA is way better than you and you play protoss which is obviously currently the most powerful race in the game. Why dont you try playing zerg and see how far you go? Did you make an account just to troll this thread? Well it's true, all you experts why dont you go show IdrA how its done instead of all this theory craft bs ? As a zerg its very very hard to beat a toss high level, so why dont you guys show us? Tyler keeps talking thinking hes amazing, so why doesnt he play zerg and show us how its done? see wat i mean
Yes I do...very clearly. TT1 you're right. -_-' Some people, just need to chill (lol chill and Tyler). Outside of professional players there are few who have any ground to stand on as far as criticizing players like IdrA, Naniwa or Tyler. They're all gosu compared to us forum dwellers (the truth hurts), and they know what they're doing. Can we please as people act like adults and be mature please, this is not highschool.
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On March 14 2011 06:23 Gowa wrote:
When Naniwa began to snipe Idra's third the supplies were 110 against 170.
Everyone who understands the game should /facepalm seeing how easily protoss can be ukillable. The natural is safe thanks to the wall, the army is shooting and is invincible thanks to forcefields. The only way zerg could have cleaned this attack is by having randomly built a nydus network then made a way out at the top right corner (or is it ?)
And didn't we sene him moving an overlord to check the rocks hp? I think he was aware of that,
It's not about Idra "making excuses" or just bitching around, it is about a player who has more game knowledge than any of us calling for justice after a game he should have won.
Thank you. Completely agree
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On March 14 2011 06:21 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 06:13 Tachion wrote:On March 14 2011 06:11 Skyze wrote:
Not to mention ragequitting at first sight of a voidray in game 1 when he was still ahead???
I would really love to hear the thought that went into this comment. Please please show me how he was ahead when he gg'd out. He had map control, enough roaches to hold off any kind of warp counter attack.. had lair and even tho he didnt have a hydra den started, 3 queens EASILY takes out one voidray, esp one that still has half the map to travel.
I don't think he had lair actually.
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Idra didn't play that well, plain and simple. He made a lot of unit control mistakes, he threw away how many at the ramp? His idea to defend that expo from the low ground was terrible, especially since Nani had Colossus with the extended thermal lance. Either attack him on the high ground when you noticed he was breaking down the rocks and hope your superior macro pumps another wave out during the battle to help win it, or sac the expo and don't lose your units while doing no damage.
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On March 14 2011 06:24 FighterHayabusa wrote:
I think it is really funny that the majority of people claiming he had the ability to do something about that don't even play Zerg. Yes, he can be BM at times----but it is due to shear frustration, and that is easy to see.
He is correct though, and pointing to one or two Zergs who have found a small measure of success against it(and by either an all in or two base push) means absolutely nothing. Hilariously the people saying this always believe the onus should be on the Zerg, when if the roles were reversed they'd have an aneurysm.
Exactly what i'm saying.
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On March 14 2011 06:21 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 06:13 Tachion wrote:On March 14 2011 06:11 Skyze wrote:
Not to mention ragequitting at first sight of a voidray in game 1 when he was still ahead???
I would really love to hear the thought that went into this comment. Please please show me how he was ahead when he gg'd out. He had map control, enough roaches to hold off any kind of warp counter attack.. had lair and even tho he didnt have a hydra den started, 3 queens EASILY takes out one voidray, esp one that still has half the map to travel. The game was very even at that point, and as I said I think idra was ahead even, he had better drone saturation and more units on the map, along with a solid tech tree up. Of course game could of went either way, but NO WAY should he of ragequit the game at that point, it was at least 50/50 at that point in the game.. and to the kid saying why dont I "prove it"... uh, go watch July in GSL. Hes not playing european protoss players, hes playing Top level GSL Protoss in AnyPro and just 3-1'd him. If Protoss was so much better than zerg, how did July win?
Idra didn't even have his lair started & Nani had 1k more minerals mined when the game ended. Gretorp shows the game stats in the vod after the game is over, and you can see that Nani had a higher resource collection rate than Idra over the majority of the game since he cut drones for his pressure. I'm not sure why you think Idra had map control when he clearly could not keep any units out on the map with the voidray around.
Idra was behind in economy and, to me, had no map control. Idra would need to get his economy up, and then get hydras before he could have any presence on the map, and Nani was free to do whatever he wanted. Idra definitely looked behind to me.
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Idra made plenty of mistakes, he simply did not see that rock being dpsed down fast enough, had he seen that in good time, he would have stragically placed his army on the ramp and done to Nani what Nani ended up doing to him
His other major mistake was simply throwing units at that ramp, when no single pro Zerg in the world would have done that, they would sac their hatch there and backed off.
The idea that he played "better" is wrong, Nani barely made any mistakes and made sure not to go down that ramp where Idra would get the concave and kill him. He was smart, he was good.
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Idra expanded next to naniwa's main, so naniwa had access to his expansion through the rocks.
he could have expanded in the main base at 1 o'clock instead of the natural, so he could have his army positioned next to the rocks, much better position, denying any pressure from naniwa and at the same time pressuring him on both sides(front and backdoor).
another option would be to expand in a safe place with no rock access to his base, like 6 and 7 o'clock.
after killing the Colossi, he threw away so much units, when he could retreat, get more ground units and stay "healthy".
he didn't need to throw away his 1 clock expansion too, like he did... could have delayed naniwa's attack to expo all over the map.
Idra just had a bad day...
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IdrA loses a best of 3, 2-1 and the game is imbalanced this is dumb. If this minuscule series can dictate that then I say ZvZ Assembly finals,2 and possibly 3 GSL Zerg champions, Zerg Code A champion all dictate Zerg is OP. NOT.
IdrA did not play up to par and nobody can argue that.
lil' newbies like myself can tell that getting THAT many Corruptors for such few Collossi(and no Broodlords) and not getting the gas geysers at the bottom 3rd and 4rth bases means he didn't play up to the level of his opponent in this match. So many things can factor into this in that IdrA has been spending the past little while moving back to America and is in a bad mindset.
Regardless, Julyzerg has been crushing face and not even doing anything "right" by IdrAs standards like not having good creep spread and also doing fail banelings drops and so many things. It's obviously not stupidly broken. Having the majority of your army being corruptors is not a good army composition. Bad decision making is what lead to IdrA losing.
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On March 11 2011 15:32 backtoback wrote:
i say 3-1 Dignatas with IdrA only winning OR axslave taking one series and if idrA plays, he wins it. If he doesn't, Dignatas takes it 3-2
Lol wut?
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On March 14 2011 06:23 Gowa wrote:
When Naniwa began to snipe Idra's third the supplies were 110 against 170.
Everyone who understands the game should /facepalm seeing how easily protoss can be ukillable. The natural is safe thanks to the wall, the army is shooting and is invincible thanks to forcefields. The only way zerg could have cleaned this attack is by having randomly built a nydus network then made a way out at the top right corner (or is it ?)
And didn't we sene him moving an overlord to check the rocks hp? I think he was aware of that,
It's not about Idra "making excuses" or just bitching around, it is about a player who has more game knowledge than any of us calling for justice after a game he should have won.
everyone who understands the game knows that zerg is supposed to have more supply, if they build roaches.
150/50 in Roaches -> 4 supply
125/50 in Stalker -> 2 supply
Stop pointing at supply in ZvP, that doesn't show anything.
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Not only did zerg win 3 of the 6 GSL tournies so far (Code A included).. they also won the GSL All-Stars in November, 16 invited best in the world, a zerg won. (Kyrix)..
So, out of 7 GSL hosted events so far in Korea, Zerg has won 4 of them. AND in the next one right now, there is a zerg in the finals.
Yeah.. I think zerg is fine. Protoss is 1/7.
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I agree the decisive moment was toss got up in the 1 o clock main. Idra scouted it, but even if he had reacted in time i dont think he could have held it without a good creep spread up there. So he should have either spread creep there, which also gives vision, or just gone for his 2nd nat instead. Nani walled completely and the chances for him pushing out his nat were small. But he didnt do either and lost.
Looking at how the game paned out i think Idra still would have had a valid chance if he had given up his third cleanly (he lost a lot of units in that process) and gone for decisive battle when Nani moved down from the 1 o clock nat. Its a wide area which he had all creeped up. It could have gone very well i think, And if he had both the 2nd nat's of the lower part of the map he could have gone one for one on expos and nani would have been mined out.
I think the mistakes lost him the game but the map architecture isnt really rewarding for z. Both the main expos and the "middle" expos have big cons to them. Playing a straight up fight can be hard.
I would love to see a z go for 1 macro hatch more often, and also get adrenal for lings. I havent been faced with mass ling or mass ling hyd lategame with a stalker immo army but i imagine it would do very well. Its just that it doesnt seem like the top z's play a style of which they have enough larvae to support it. But it could be an alternation/improvement to the 300/300 push - having enough larvae to do exactly what you want/need.
Also, when the professors of starcraft dispense knowledge, dont bitch and complain. Making 2 line post which are totally wrong isnt a basic human right or anything. Put some effort into your posts instead of saying "i have my rights man".
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On March 14 2011 06:48 backtoback wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 15:32 backtoback wrote:
i say 3-1 Dignatas with IdrA only winning OR axslave taking one series and if idrA plays, he wins it. If he doesn't, Dignatas takes it 3-2 Lol wut?
Quoting what you said earlier in a thread then saying "lol wut?" doesn't qualify as a post. Garbage like that shouldn't be seen in TL.
Anyway I don't see why people care so much if Idra GGs or not. His final comment was quite funny though. In a clan war this close anyone can win a series. Losing or winning doesn't magically mean one player is the best. Just enjoy the games and have fun.
Man finals and 3rd/4th place look to be super sick. So ampt.
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On March 14 2011 06:23 Gowa wrote:
When Naniwa began to snipe Idra's third the supplies were 110 against 170.
Everyone who understands the game should /facepalm seeing how easily protoss can be ukillable. The natural is safe thanks to the wall, the army is shooting and is invincible thanks to forcefields. The only way zerg could have cleaned this attack is by having randomly built a nydus network then made a way out at the top right corner (or is it ?)
And didn't we sene him moving an overlord to check the rocks hp? I think he was aware of that,
It's not about Idra "making excuses" or just bitching around, it is about a player who has more game knowledge than any of us calling for justice after a game he should have won.
100% agree with everything you said
and it makes me soo sad not just to see idra lose that way
but that so many of you guys don't understand anything of what happened but talk about how bad idra is..
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Sweden33723 Posts
On March 14 2011 06:23 BigBoy22 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 06:21 Skyze wrote:On March 14 2011 06:13 Tachion wrote:On March 14 2011 06:11 Skyze wrote:
Not to mention ragequitting at first sight of a voidray in game 1 when he was still ahead???
I would really love to hear the thought that went into this comment. Please please show me how he was ahead when he gg'd out. He had map control, enough roaches to hold off any kind of warp counter attack.. had lair and even tho he didnt have a hydra den started, 3 queens EASILY takes out one voidray, esp one that still has half the map to travel. The game was very even at that point, and as I said I think idra was ahead even, he had better drone saturation and more units on the map, along with a solid tech tree up. Of course game could of went either way, but NO WAY should he of ragequit the game at that point, it was at least 50/50 at that point in the game.. and to the kid saying why dont I "prove it"... uh, go watch July in GSL. Hes not playing european protoss players, hes playing Top level GSL Protoss in AnyPro and just 3-1'd him. If Protoss was so much better than zerg, how did July win? Youre talking about 1 zerg in the world getting into the final, let me ask you- where are the other zergs? Why are the better players right now all protosses? Why can Jinro not figure out a way to beat toss effectively? Why cant a zerg do the same? .. right.
Most of my TvPs make it look worse than it actually is because im bad vs protoss.
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On March 14 2011 07:00 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Most of my TvPs make it look worse than it actually is because im bad vs protoss.
so is IdrA and the shitstorm on balance still began with a 1-2 ZVP series of him... people don't actually care about player's actual win ratings or strong/weak matchups... they/you lose and the game is BROKEN, period ... mad world.
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EPT
