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SCReddit Invitational Finals: ft. Day[9] & djWHEAT - Page 30

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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DizzyDrone
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands629 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 00:32:07
January 17 2011 00:30 GMT
#581
Morrow loves his macro, obviously White-ra will (and should) abuse this. However, just like people don't like watching scv all-ins back to back from BitByBitPrime.WE they wont like watching 4/5 gate all-ins back to back from White-ra.

I don't get why Morrow went for blistering sands without preparing for this though
gogogadgetflow
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2583 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 00:31:14
January 17 2011 00:30 GMT
#582
Morrow is amazing player but it doesnt look like he understands the concept of a Best-Of-x... White-ra had a gameplan for game 1 but was defeated because morrow made more drones than expected early. White-ra responded appropriately with 4gate/5gate play and it makes sense to stick with that until Morrow responds by making fewer drones early.
kuroshiro
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom378 Posts
January 17 2011 00:31 GMT
#583
I think people who keep saying that these games are not entertaining aren't paying attention. srsly. Watch the freakin game instead of labelling '4-gate' and automatically deciding 'this game sucks'.

Just my opinion though.
I am you, and you are me.
HeroHenry
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1723 Posts
January 17 2011 00:31 GMT
#584
I predict 4/5 gate again. That's pretty much all he does.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
January 17 2011 00:31 GMT
#585
On January 17 2011 09:26 n0ise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 09:25 Pandain wrote:
On January 17 2011 09:23 .Theory wrote:
What's with the 4gate QQ? They're still great games.

How are these great games?
They're only great(somewhat, SOMEWHAT) because Morrow is such a beast at defense.

And for people saying "Oh, he's playing to win", that doesn't mean people can't be dissapointed in him.

White Ra is basically saying, by 5 gating 3 times in a row(after getting totally dominated in a macro game):
"I can't win vs Morrow in a macro game."

And that's what makes me, along with other people in this thread, dissapointed with White ra and his play this series.


Cool logic. So the Zerg is free to overdrone, cos if the opponent does aggressive play, he's lame/etc/can't win in a macro game.

Anyway. Songname? ^____^


Except White Ra all ined. I mean, even a 4 gate isn't all in(which is sort of sad, but whatever.)

Even when he killed the hatch, he didn't expand. On metalopolis, he had such a lead, yet instead of expanding made a stargate. Like just very very late he did make a nexus, but just in how late it was shows it was an all in.

If he didn't kill Morrow's expo, he would've lost. Plain and simple. Same thing as you saw in game 1, in which White ra did 5 gate, failed, and lost to Morrow in the late game.

There's a difference between droning too hard and not being able to compete in a macro game. There's a HUGE differense skill wise. One is just a simple, easy mistake. The other is what defines Starcraft 2.

flamekin
Profile Joined April 2010
United States72 Posts
January 17 2011 00:31 GMT
#586
its a tournament its anything to win. morrow understands this, did everyone forget how morrow 5 rax reaper the hell out of idra at IEM? which btw was a far more abusive build
Ghost-z
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1291 Posts
January 17 2011 00:32 GMT
#587
Why hasn't Morrow responded correctly by stomping these 1 base pushes and taking the free win?
Fairy Tales when you're a child begin with "Once upon a time" and when you're an adult begin, "If elected I promise..."
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
January 17 2011 00:32 GMT
#588
On January 17 2011 09:22 KingRajesh wrote:
Why is White-Ra such a highly regarded player?

4 and 5 gate every game FTW.

Because he is good maybe ? He can play epic macro games and win, but he is extremely aggressive and if he thinks he can win with massive early aggression he will try. That is actually why he is so good, he can do short or long games, also he is very creative in small details. Also people screeming cheese , there was no cheese done by White-ra. Also what Morrow expected when he picked Blistering Sands, Protoss has to be agressive from the start or die.

Anyway Morrow seems like great Zerg, and getting better as time goes, he played some great games in Take's tournament today.
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
January 17 2011 00:32 GMT
#589
Stop blaming White-ra for playing the game as it is in its current state.

If the races were reversed, I'm pretty sure Morrow would cut probes and 4-5-gate close positions metalopolis and blistering sands too. It's clearly the strongest build on those maps/positions, you'd be a fool not to use that.
Eggcake
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland722 Posts
January 17 2011 00:32 GMT
#590
The 4-Gates aren't all ins and are defendable. Morrow doesn't prepare accordingly, he drones too much. The 4-Gate is very hard to hold, but it seems Morrow doesn't even prepare for them. If he defended the 4-Gate (like on Shakuras or XelNaga) it turns into a good macro game. On Shakuras he stomped WhiteRa, on Xelnaga he lost. He just fails preparing for a proper 4-Gate defense.

It's not really cheese, it's just the best opening vs. Zerg at some positions.
DarkRise
Profile Joined November 2010
1644 Posts
January 17 2011 00:33 GMT
#591
3 gate FE?
Knutzi
Profile Joined July 2009
Norway664 Posts
January 17 2011 00:33 GMT
#592
on those spawns/maps whitera kinda had no choice but to 4 gate, blame the maps if anything
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
January 17 2011 00:33 GMT
#593
I think many people getting upset probably feel that it doesn't seem as if the defender has the advantage in this game yet. And I agree there (depending on races and maps). And that's bad. If the aggressor wins it's supposed to be kiwikaki-awesomeness. Not just build them gates and laugh.
Hello=)
Yusername
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden252 Posts
January 17 2011 00:34 GMT
#594
This series has been like rock, paper scissors so far. White-Ra continues to choose rock, while MorroW chooses scissors, expecting White-Ra to choose paper for once. But he never does.
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
January 17 2011 00:34 GMT
#595
Omg people flaming White-Ra seriously drop it; you are acting like this is the only time you have ever seen White-Ra play.. and if this is the only time you have seen him play then you have no room to comment.. He is incredibly proficient at dismantling his opponent; MorroW can't hold these 4/5gate plays so why should White-Ra play differently? Oh wait.. he is meant to let zerg macro to 4 bases because that is "entertaining" for you .. ><

Machine vs Kiwikaki saw Machine take game 1 and then Kiwikaki go blink stalkers 3 times in a row to destroy Machine; why? Because he saw a weakness and capitalised! This may be streamed but they are playing for money, not just for you.
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
SiguR
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada2039 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 00:36:11
January 17 2011 00:34 GMT
#596
Holding off early pressure without falling behind economically is the number one thing all zerg players need to master first. If morrow can't, do you really expect White-ra not to punish him for it? It's not like this is some sort of clearly broken 5 rax reaper build that gets nerfed shortly after. The 4/5 gate is kinda scout-able and requires economic sacrifices from the protoss. It's been established as part of the game and if morrow can't hold it off, white-ra should not be receiving criticism.


Edit: the poster above me hit the nail on the head.
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
January 17 2011 00:35 GMT
#597
On January 17 2011 09:25 AJMcSpiffy wrote:
I can definitely understand why White-Ra wants to play in a way that he known will win, but that doesn't make it any less boring to watch. Morrow is the only excitement in these matches with some great defense and he tries so damn hard to hang on. I don't want to see a Protoss that just goes "Well my 1-base mega ball of units can beat you, so that's all I'm gonna do." That game on Shakuras was the same thing, only Morrow managed to come back after the first attack and White-Ra seemed to fall to pieces.

You didn't see Xel'naga I suppose.
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 00:37:11
January 17 2011 00:35 GMT
#598
OH GOD WHITE-RA ONLY BUILDS 5 GATE, HE IS SUCH A BA3GATEFORGEEXPAND

Enough of the complaints seriously. Turning on White-Ra, unbelievable...

Edit : Oh look, a Darkshrine, sure is nothing but 5-gates in here.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
cyprin
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1105 Posts
January 17 2011 00:35 GMT
#599
oh what
whiteras n key IS working
:3
n0ise
Profile Joined April 2010
3452 Posts
January 17 2011 00:36 GMT
#600
On January 17 2011 09:31 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 09:26 n0ise wrote:
On January 17 2011 09:25 Pandain wrote:
On January 17 2011 09:23 .Theory wrote:
What's with the 4gate QQ? They're still great games.

How are these great games?
They're only great(somewhat, SOMEWHAT) because Morrow is such a beast at defense.

And for people saying "Oh, he's playing to win", that doesn't mean people can't be dissapointed in him.

White Ra is basically saying, by 5 gating 3 times in a row(after getting totally dominated in a macro game):
"I can't win vs Morrow in a macro game."

And that's what makes me, along with other people in this thread, dissapointed with White ra and his play this series.


Cool logic. So the Zerg is free to overdrone, cos if the opponent does aggressive play, he's lame/etc/can't win in a macro game.

Anyway. Songname? ^____^


Except White Ra all ined. I mean, even a 4 gate isn't all in(which is sort of sad, but whatever.)

Even when he killed the hatch, he didn't expand. On metalopolis, he had such a lead, yet instead of expanding made a stargate. Like just very very late he did make a nexus, but just in how late it was shows it was an all in.

If he didn't kill Morrow's expo, he would've lost. Plain and simple. Same thing as you saw in game 1, in which White ra did 5 gate, failed, and lost to Morrow in the late game.

There's a difference between droning too hard and not being able to compete in a macro game. There's a HUGE differense skill wise. One is just a simple, easy mistake. The other is what defines Starcraft 2.



You didn't seem to understand my point. As stated by everyone a billion times, Morrow loves his dronies and defending with the minimum amount of resources. You can a) Play at a disadvantage and wonder why you're kinda meh in a macro game (because, again, Morrow will invest a lot of his resources in early econ) or b) try to abuse on that.

Also, you do this four games in a row, you make the Zergy more leary to overdrone, then you go for a standard macro game in game 5 on LT. Standard BO5 high-level play.

There's so much depth to this game, it's a pity people just read it as "omg he's so bad my plat buddy can do this and beat morrow".
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