EPTNeither IMNesTea nor TSL_FruitDealer played very well today, many mistakes from both... mistakes that we usually don't see on them. Probably they were thinking about facing each other in the next round instead of focusing and preparing for the current opponent.
[GSL] S3 Ro8 Day 1 - Page 154
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Angry.Zerg
Mexico305 Posts
Neither IMNesTea nor TSL_FruitDealer played very well today, many mistakes from both... mistakes that we usually don't see on them. Probably they were thinking about facing each other in the next round instead of focusing and preparing for the current opponent. | ||
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mads
Canada90 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:30 Moragon wrote: You just made the assumption he was saying zerg players make, that the terrans and protoss want to play a long macro game. Julyzerg plays safe, getting pool and speed before planting an expo hatch, and hes pretty darn good. Even Artosis is tired of seeing all the hatch first builds because they are so risky. Fact is that the safer you play and the more you can delay these terrans all-in rushes that they were planning on doing, the more uncomfortable they are going to get. lolol even artosis......... But, it's no secret that hatch first is just greedy. I love the dynamic it adds because it takes a really skilled zerg to defend it successfully against 2rax strategies, and it takes a skilled terran to bust it on 2 rax as well. I'm glad players are breaking it consistently now. I wish protoss had a more exciting way to deny it than cannon contain, maybe the metagame will come up with something. | ||
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beat farm
United States478 Posts
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:36 RoseTempest wrote: So then give us a solution. Consider yourself in this situation: You're gunning for 87 grand, you have a 70% chance of winning if you 2 rax pressure/allin, and a 30% chance of winning if you delay for a macro game. What would YOU do? Your sense of entitlement is disgusting, these players don't owe you anything, if you want a show, go watch cartoons or something, this is an e-sport, and people are trying to make a living. dude, I am not blaming players, problem is the design of the game. Balance of the game sucks, cheese/allin has better chances to win. I'm blaming Blizzard. | ||
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PredY
Czech Republic1731 Posts
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
On December 07 2010 06:27 bokeevboke wrote: No matter what excuses you find, current games are very bad for viewers. As a viewer I don't care about prize money, all i need is a show. which is not happening most of the time. The best gamees were at R64 (leenock-clide)!!!. If it goes in same way sc2 will just fail as an esports. LOL. If you cannot accept the fact you are watching a tournament with 90k on the line, you HAVE to expect players to do whatever they can to win it. No one is there to please the viewers...I repeat...it is a competitive TOURNAMENT. If you cannot appreciate that simple fact, I don`t think watching GSL is the right thing for you. Blame Blizzard? They designed the game to be competitive in mind first and foremost. I`d rather Blizzard keep focusing on more important things than make it more pleasing to watch for viewers(what ever that means). | ||
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salidsnake
United States50 Posts
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leo23
United States3075 Posts
Overview Cheese most often refers to an unexpected strategy that relies on large parts on secrecy and/or psychological impact on the opponent. Players use cheese to force a more unbalanced game. The unbalanced nature of cheese usually serve to make decision making on the defending side more fatal. Thus, the cheesing player is given a chance to come back from an otherwise lost game or the possibility to outwit a stronger opponent. A common form in practice is to neglect a long term viable economy to be able to produce a couple of extra units for attack. A main characteristic of cheese is whatever the form, if scouted in time and answered correctly, it will almost surely fail and put the executed player at a severe disadvantage. | ||
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sadyque
Romania251 Posts
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Zevah
Argentina187 Posts
it's not a balance problem at all, it's a strategy problem. | ||
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:07 salidsnake wrote: No zergs left makes me happy. Zerg winning 3 GSLs in a row would be extremely lame. Best possible scenario is jinro vs any of the toss players in the finals! Jinro vs Marineking would be my dream finals. I wouldn't care who won! | ||
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positron.
634 Posts
I don't feel bad for FD at all. He should have taken scrap station. Using that stupid bling bust was a mistake. | ||
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ArtOfRandom
United States36 Posts
On December 07 2010 05:17 ShootingStars wrote: Rain DESERVED to win you guys think SC2 is all about macro games and all, but its about the mix of micro, macro, and all-ins stop thinking only one-sided -_- micro games are very intensive as well jeez, not everyone is a macro player you have those who specialize in timing pushes and all-ins like BBBprime and Rain and you got those who macro macro macro like idra stop nagging about the matches and appreciate the player's play styles -.- Yeah the goal of the game is to win, not to win with Forum Poster 6395's approved method of winning. Whoever wins played the better game. It's a strategy game, guys. You can have the best macro in the world and lose to strategic blunders. And you should. | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:13 positron. wrote: Question: Was roach ling allin the best response after being locked in your base by cannon? Why did he not just expo and play normally? I don't feel bad for FD at all. He should have taken scrap station. Using that stupid bling bust was a mistake. It wasn't stupid, as Ret pointed out - 90% of protoss go stargate on scrap station which is very hard for zerg to defend. FD was unlucky that HongUn went 4gate. | ||
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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:13 Talack wrote: Jinro vs Marineking would be my dream finals. I wouldn't care who won! poor guys it wont ever happen, atleast in the GSL for obvious reason | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
These are progamers though. They've got to do better than this. They knew cheese was coming sooner or later, it's been there throughout the tournament. They can practice against all-ins 10 hours a day if that's what it takes. I suspect they just practiced like they normally practiced. If after all this time they still can't figure out all-ins there's no one else they can blame. If you're just waiting for Blizzard to patch you deserve to lose. Also, I wouldn't hold my breath on GSL changing maps without the community using different maps first. | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
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Rebornlife
Canada224 Posts
Like what went through his head must have been something like "He will probably out macro me. So that leaves early game for me. Oh wait, he won the last GSL stopping early pressure. -_- Well, i suppose it's time to pray!" | ||
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photomuse
United States102 Posts
Look at the latest posts comparing zerg build orders. There is not a huge difference between 11 pool and 14 hatch economically...its mostly a choice between number of larva vs early creep/crawler placement. For protoss all-ins (4 warpgate) zerg found the earlier creep was better. For terran all-ins, it may be that the early pool is better, but thus far I don't think anyone has found a real answer to this, or we would have seen it in the GSL. Someone mentioned an Idra stream earlier in this thread where Idra was still getting beat by marine/scv all-ins going pool first. I think that if something like an early pool was so much better against marine-scv all-ins, then the pros would be doing it vs Terran. Really we are just talking about transpositions, like in chess. If you have 2 queens, two hatches, and pool by time X, then does it really matter if you got there by getting the pool or hatch first? In short, an expansion with full creep and a spine crawler >>> expansion with no creep or expansion building. I'm guessing that these zerg are going hatch first vs. cheese because they found in their practice that it gives them the best chance to defend a rush. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On December 07 2010 04:41 riverkim09 wrote: So terran and protoss should just let zerg macro up like crazy without doing anything about it? You can still macro as zerg if you can handle the harass. You're missing the damn point. Terran and Protoss have no right to force an early game onto zerg just as zerg has no right to whine that terran and protoss shouldn't attack them early if the zerg is FE. BTW, zerg doesn't have to macro. I dont know why you think that. Also, zerg can expand easier than terrand and protoss. Terran and protss have to spend the ealier minerals getting more the production buildings, rax/gates, the zerg uses the minerals getting a hatchery. What is your solution to this then? make it illegal for protoss and terran to be able to early pressure a zerg FE? i thought about answering your post but then i realized it's so wrong you probably dont even play the same game as me. | ||
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