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On December 07 2010 04:18 riverkim09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:14 t3tsubo wrote:
why don't zergs go back to gas before pool before hatchery for instant speed? That seems to counter a marine scv all-in IMO Because zerg players have this inherent belief that all sc2 is about is long macro games and they can't bring themselves to think that non-zerg players possibly disagree with their "perfect" gamestyle.
lol this is actually wrong. if you do that terran can just take a super safe 2 rax expo really fast and not pull his scvs for the rush. He'll still force you to make tons of lings and delay your expo, but he wont skip and SCV or a mule, and then he'll roll over you mid game. Thats whats really annoying about this build. in SC1 if you did fast 2 rax and did nothing with it it was fucking trouble when you were trying to deal with mutas with a delayed natural, but now you can just keep being aggressive over and over its hilariously bad for zerg. Not to comment too much about balance but I really think slow lings just suck way too hard against marines lol
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On December 07 2010 05:17 ShootingStars wrote:
Rain DESERVED to win
you guys think SC2 is all about macro games and all, but its about the mix of micro, macro, and all-ins
stop thinking only one-sided -_- micro games are very intensive as well
jeez, not everyone is a macro player
you have those who specialize in timing pushes and all-ins like BBBprime and Rain and you got those who macro macro macro like idra
stop nagging about the matches and appreciate the player's play styles -.-
This. At least some forumers understand the game.
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On December 07 2010 05:19 dekuschrub wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:18 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 04:14 t3tsubo wrote:
why don't zergs go back to gas before pool before hatchery for instant speed? That seems to counter a marine scv all-in IMO Because zerg players have this inherent belief that all sc2 is about is long macro games and they can't bring themselves to think that non-zerg players possibly disagree with their "perfect" gamestyle. lol this is actually wrong. if you do that terran can just take a super safe 2 rax expo really fast and not pull his scvs for the rush. He'll still force you to make tons of lings and delay your expo, but he wont skip and SCV or a mule, and then he'll roll over you mid game. Thats whats really annoying about this build. in SC1 if you did fast 2 rax and did nothing with it it was fucking trouble when you were trying to deal with mutas with a delayed natural, but now you can just keep being aggressive over and over its hilariously bad for zerg. Not to comment too much about balance but I really think slow lings just suck way too hard against marines lol
No actually you're wrong and this i'm actually right. I was strictly addressing the zerg player's whiny response of the 2 rax early pressure/all-in (or any early pressure in general).
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Soo glad I picked them both right in my liquidbet. I'm 4th place now!
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Hooooooooly crap. I was expecting ezpz nestea and fruitdealer, although i admit my faith in fruitdealer is a bit shaky since I didn't get to see him stomp in season 1, so my confidence was second-hand anyway. I only watched up to game 3 of nestea vs rain and I thought nestea had the upper hand.. Oh well. Very well done; it was a huge surprise.
Gg wp to both players; they beat the odds and came out of a very tough bracket, so I respect them for that. If that happens today to foxer and jinro though I'm going to cry 
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Man, just imagine if Yellow and Boxer had to put up with an audience as whiny as the current teamliquid.net randoms. Sure, Boxer occasionally did some crazy creative play, but both of those players did tons of 1 base "cheesy" plays.
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On December 07 2010 05:19 dekuschrub wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:18 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 04:14 t3tsubo wrote:
why don't zergs go back to gas before pool before hatchery for instant speed? That seems to counter a marine scv all-in IMO Because zerg players have this inherent belief that all sc2 is about is long macro games and they can't bring themselves to think that non-zerg players possibly disagree with their "perfect" gamestyle. lol this is actually wrong. if you do that terran can just take a super safe 2 rax expo really fast and not pull his scvs for the rush.
You just made the assumption he was saying zerg players make, that the terrans and protoss want to play a long macro game. Julyzerg plays safe, getting pool and speed before planting an expo hatch, and hes pretty darn good. Even Artosis is tired of seeing all the hatch first builds because they are so risky. Fact is that the safer you play and the more you can delay these terrans all-in rushes that they were planning on doing, the more uncomfortable they are going to get.
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Really interesting games. I understand why everyone is mad with the lack of macro games, but these players are under a lot of pressure and their reaction to it today was to try to end things quickly.
Even Fruitdealer, who from what I've seen (all GSL games) normally likes to macro like mad, was 1 and 2 basing a lot - albeit forced to 1 base due to pylon blocks in some games.
I wouldn't be angry if Blizzard did tweak some numbers/times to make the marine/scv rushes a 'little' less viable although I'm not an expert on that topic, I just play Protoss and, although we also have a relatively hard time against early game Terran, don't see that many sucessful 2 rax rushes when a well placed sentry/cannon stops it so well.
It sucks that there isn't a Zerg in the final 4, but that isn't 'surprising', it happens that one race crashes out early, and this time I don't think it is as much as a balance thing as it was in past GSL's (GSL 1, few Zergs anywhere past first few round but for Fruitdealer).
It would be nice to see a TvP or even PvP final (my opinion). I know that TvT is arguably better games but we don't/haven't seen PvP on the GSL for a while so I'm sure it would be kind of interesting to see where that matchup has arrived at, at the GSL level of play.
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On December 07 2010 05:14 riverkim09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 05:10 devilshootsdevil wrote:On December 07 2010 05:04 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 05:00 devilshootsdevil wrote:
Well... The only player who's left that deserves to win is Jinro. Please please Jinro win this whole thing with some amazing macro, it would be a shame if any of these cheesy players left won the GSL. Why? Cuz he's a foreigner? LOL wall of stupid text Because I like exciting games that go over the 10 minute mark, which none of these "cheesy" players can provide. It's also entirely my opinion and I'm not enforcing it on anyone so please calm down. Alot of MarineKing's games go over 10 minute mark. Or anyone else left for that matter. I don't know if Jinro is that good at macro. Its more like Moon was just bad.
You people act like Jinro have only played against Moon... like ever. As soon as someone brings up Jinro's macro ability (without even mentioning Moon) someone objects with "But moon sucked..."
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On December 07 2010 05:46 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 05:14 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 05:10 devilshootsdevil wrote:On December 07 2010 05:04 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 05:00 devilshootsdevil wrote:
Well... The only player who's left that deserves to win is Jinro. Please please Jinro win this whole thing with some amazing macro, it would be a shame if any of these cheesy players left won the GSL. Why? Cuz he's a foreigner? LOL wall of stupid text Because I like exciting games that go over the 10 minute mark, which none of these "cheesy" players can provide. It's also entirely my opinion and I'm not enforcing it on anyone so please calm down. Alot of MarineKing's games go over 10 minute mark. Or anyone else left for that matter. I don't know if Jinro is that good at macro. Its more like Moon was just bad. You people act like Jinro have only played against Moon... like ever. As soon as someone brings up Jinro's macro ability (without even mentioning Moon) someone objects with "But moon sucked..."
Well the game against PoltPrime was alot of Jinro's ability to capitalize on Polt's mistakes. I actually didn't watch his ro64 game so i can't comment on that.
But if you really want to see some sick terran macro, go see oGsNada vs Leenock in gsl2. In the second set, Nada, as terran, outmacros a zerg. Thats terran macro.
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On December 07 2010 01:37 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Loved HongUn's simcity defense. He deserved to win just for that alone.
Hope MC stomps Marineking and Jinro beats Choya, and next round Hongun beats rain, assuring us either a PvP finals, or a PvJinro finals, either of which would be awesome
Absolutely! Protoss and Liquid FTW!
I'm in awe that the Zergs lost!
Protoss in round of 4 woooo!!!
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This that just really happen ?!
/cry
I think macro style is superior IF and only IF they can manage to stop this timing push playstyle but they weren't able to adjust their play so they winners deserved their spot in th ro4 (esp rain  )
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Christ, I just finished watching FD vs hongun... what the hell?
Fruitdealer made some of the strangest decisions I've seen in this tournament. That game on scrap... he pretty much had it won, he just needed a roach warren. Just wow, I think he'll be hating that man in the mirror for a couple of days after this.
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Make Orbital Command cost 50 Gas it would kind of force terran to get Gas, it wouldn't necessarily stop the 2 rax all in rushes though.
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WTB games that go past 2 bases.
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On December 07 2010 05:54 riverkim09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 05:46 nihlon wrote:On December 07 2010 05:14 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 05:10 devilshootsdevil wrote:On December 07 2010 05:04 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 05:00 devilshootsdevil wrote:
Well... The only player who's left that deserves to win is Jinro. Please please Jinro win this whole thing with some amazing macro, it would be a shame if any of these cheesy players left won the GSL. Why? Cuz he's a foreigner? LOL wall of stupid text Because I like exciting games that go over the 10 minute mark, which none of these "cheesy" players can provide. It's also entirely my opinion and I'm not enforcing it on anyone so please calm down. Alot of MarineKing's games go over 10 minute mark. Or anyone else left for that matter. I don't know if Jinro is that good at macro. Its more like Moon was just bad. You people act like Jinro have only played against Moon... like ever. As soon as someone brings up Jinro's macro ability (without even mentioning Moon) someone objects with "But moon sucked..." Well the game against PoltPrime was alot of Jinro's ability to capitalize on Polt's mistakes. I actually didn't watch his ro64 game so i can't comment on that. But if you really want to see some sick terran macro, go see oGsNada vs Leenock in gsl2. In the second set, Nada, as terran, outmacros a zerg. Thats terran macro.
Nada also killed some 15 drones with blue flame hellions because all Leenock had were lings. So it wasn't purely because of Nada macro.
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No matter what excuses you find, current games are very bad for viewers. As a viewer I don't care about prize money, all i need is a show. which is not happening most of the time. The best gamees were at R64 (leenock-clide)!!!. If it goes in same way sc2 will just fail as an esports.
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I really wanted to see NesTea vs FruitDealer, but at least Jinro's chances of winning the GSL got a little higher today.
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On December 07 2010 04:35 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 04:18 riverkim09 wrote:On December 07 2010 04:14 t3tsubo wrote:
why don't zergs go back to gas before pool before hatchery for instant speed? That seems to counter a marine scv all-in IMO Because zerg players have this inherent belief that all sc2 is about is long macro games and they can't bring themselves to think that non-zerg players possibly disagree with their "perfect" gamestyle. ure saying the race that depends on outmacroing their opponents in order to win cant expand as easily as the races they have to outmacro? Oh dear that seems like proper balance
That post actually pained me. I'm in actual pain.
Mostly it was this bit
cant expand as easily as the races they have to outmacro
Yeah, no one actually mentioned how easily the other races can expand. The guy said gas, pool, hatchery. For any race but zerg, that would actually be a really fast expo. What he was saying was zerg players shouldn't take hatchery first as a given any more. Because it doesn't work. Objectively, based on this GSL, it is no longer the go to build.
He wasn't saying 'lolol zerg should make 200/200 lings while Terran expos twice'.
See? I can misconstrue and exaggerate as well. Except I can spell 'you're'.
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On December 07 2010 06:27 bokeevboke wrote:
No matter what excuses you find, current games are very bad for viewers. As a viewer I don't care about prize money, all i need is a show. which is not happening most of the time. The best gamees were at R64 (leenock-clide)!!!. If it goes in same way sc2 will just fail as an esports.
So then give us a solution.
Consider yourself in this situation: You're gunning for 87 grand, you have a 70% chance of winning if you 2 rax pressure/allin, and a 30% chance of winning if you delay for a macro game. What would YOU do?
Your sense of entitlement is disgusting, these players don't owe you anything, if you want a show, go watch cartoons or something, this is an e-sport, and people are trying to make a living.
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EPT
