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[GSL] Ro64 Day 2 - Page 144

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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hero33
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada122 Posts
October 19 2010 09:01 GMT
#2861
+ Show Spoiler +
TLOOOOOOOOOOO WHYYYYYYYYYY


i cried tonight......

and im a fucking man.
men cry .
Anyone can become famous, Just set urself on fire
Escapist
Profile Joined July 2010
Portugal548 Posts
October 19 2010 09:01 GMT
#2862
TLO's opponent didnt got qualified for the RO64 on the GSL Season 1 and TLO did RO32 so i dont think discussing here that "top seeds shouldnt be facing each other the early tournament rounds" makes any sense since none of them is a top seed.

What happened is that from a Korean prespective a new player in GSL faced a former RO32 and the new player won. TLO or not he cant just show his ID and get an auto win so better sit down and do your best or someone might show up pulling the rug under your feet...thats basically what happened on this situation.

Best of luck for TLO for Season 3 hopefully he'll perfomr better then.
EU / US / KR English Shoutcasted Matches 720p HD -> http://www.youtube.com/user/xHydrax
hydraden
Profile Joined April 2010
United States719 Posts
October 19 2010 09:01 GMT
#2863
On October 19 2010 17:47 tyrless wrote:
man TLO is such a class act, doing the interview after such a devastating loss (4gate of all things, nothing high level), whereas someone like Grack would just run out the door in a hissy fit

And Sangho is way overrated considering how mediocre his play was in that series, clearly SC2 is not BW


With your argument, even mediocre play can beat TLO, that pretty much means TLO is terrible in SC2.
Panicc
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany163 Posts
October 19 2010 09:01 GMT
#2864
Man some of you have their own logic... You want seedings? Tlo was perfectly seeded today. He was a 32er agains a Noname in SC2( sc1 should not matter otherwise many bad players now would be seeded so high). So the System was actually with TLO.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
October 19 2010 09:02 GMT
#2865
Wooooo, #1 Liquibet rank!!!

....wait....
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Mato
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia412 Posts
October 19 2010 09:02 GMT
#2866
On October 19 2010 17:53 Shakes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2010 17:40 Mato wrote:
On October 19 2010 17:16 KingRajesh wrote:
On October 19 2010 17:08 SF wrote:
The match-up between TLO and SangHo prompted me to create a Liquid account just to post in this thread.

As a new fan to pro gaming, I've been thoroughly enthralled by the entertainment value in SC2. And especially entertained by the creative and obviously talented players.

After watching this round 64 live on GOMtv (for the first time ever), and seeing several mediocre players advance, I am disgusted that somehow the tournament designers managed to put two players that are clearly and obviously massively superior in skill to their round 64 counterparts against each other in a preliminary round, forcing an elimination.

This is the equivalent of having an NFL Quarterback Tournament, by which the winner is decided by elimination in 1v1, and in the very first round Peyton Manning is pitted against Drew Brees, while every other match-up involves a 2nd string nobody.

The outcome of this "GSL" now seems as much decided by pure luck as it is by actual skill. How can a tournament that forces the elimination of top players in the preliminaries be seen as credible whatsoever at all?

I didn't feel as if "the best player won" today, as I would hope to feel. I am a fan of both players, and I felt disgusted and cheated of the pleasure of watching one of my favorite stars play again in the tournament. The TLO vs. SangHo game should have been either in the final of the tournament, best out of 7, or at a minimum the Round of 8.

This needs to be fixed before pro 1v1 gaming becomes a joke. I'm sure a new system can be devised that pits players of appropriate skill at appropriate times in a tournament against each other.

P.S. The Rankings by GSL are pathetic. TLO = a "private", and a fake "Boxer" is now going to be a "Sergent" or something? That's like calling Babe Ruth a "little leaguer" and telling a bench warmer that he's "MVP" because the refs didn't know how to set up a fair game.

P.P.S. And yes, I'm very pissed right now, so apologies if any of this seems like "hating", but it's also important, because this is the "new guys" opinion on something that seemed so cool at first, and now seems lame.




In my opinion, a system where TLO, SangHo and the rest of the top players are kept from each other till later in the tournament doesn't make for a fair tournament. It would make it a joke if you were'nt considered a top player, cause they'd intentionally feed you to the best players so you'd be eliminated, while the player who draws the most moves on. It adds a feeling of illegitimacy.

Good players should have to play other good players, depending on the brackets. Anything else is garbage. College Basketball is stupid for that reason, because the NCAA makes the brackets to get viewers, not get the best games.


Uhh yeah, ever heard of tennis? Good, proven players should never have to play each other in initial rounds. Its up to newcomers to break into the scene.


The problem with that theory is that I wouldn't say TLO is a proven player. He's obviously a fan favourite and all, but even going back to the beta his tournament track record isn't so hot.


I agree totally, its far to early in SC2 to have a definitive 1-64 ranking style system.

I'm just pointing out to the clown who thinks that good players should play good players that his thinking is flawed. It simply makes no sense, nobody wants to see the favourites knock each other up and then one-sided games later deeper in the competition.
SF
Profile Joined October 2010
United States13 Posts
October 19 2010 09:03 GMT
#2867
On October 19 2010 17:51 lyhb wrote:


admit it, if tlo had won the series you wouldnt be sputing this non sense... ugh some people need to dead the drama



Lol some truth to that, however I will say now that I've calmed down that I would still write a post about it, just not as emotionally charged. Because you can argue it all day long, but SangHo OR TLO was better than the rest of those qualifiers combined today. Grrr
Panicc
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany163 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 09:05:33
October 19 2010 09:05 GMT
#2868
On October 19 2010 18:03 SF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2010 17:51 lyhb wrote:


admit it, if tlo had won the series you wouldnt be sputing this non sense... ugh some people need to dead the drama



Lol some truth to that, however I will say now that I've calmed down that I would still write a post about it, just not as emotionally charged. Because you can argue it all day long, but SangHo OR TLO was better than the rest of those qualifiers combined today. Grrr



How should they know how good SangHo is? He was a newcomer to SC2 .
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 09:06:14
October 19 2010 09:05 GMT
#2869
Hey people stop calling PhoenixWerra a bad player or "miles behind" or whatever.
For your info, PhoenixWerra is one of the top zergs on korea server and plays as Kore on US server and it basically a top Zerg there as well. He is as fast as Cellawerra but has better decision making and better gamesense.

He also streams on occasion and is in TL's list of streamers. He is basically one of us.
TLO and SangHo did seem better but Phoenix also played a strong good games and showed us he is a good player.
Crichton
Profile Joined September 2010
Japan196 Posts
October 19 2010 09:05 GMT
#2870
On October 19 2010 18:00 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2010 17:57 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On October 19 2010 17:51 minru wrote:
4 gate, a build that isn't even that good vs Terran compared to Protoss and Zerg. Terran can block up and bunker easily if they don't tech up to cloaked banshee.



Not when there are back door rocks and stuff like that. You can hold it of with bunkers and repair in one choke, not when there are 2. You should just go 3 raks on maps like that or just veto them, they are horrible i think.


Jungle Basin other than the rocks is a perfectly good map for TvP I think, yes It's annoying that those rocks got abused and I'm really quite annoyed that TLO went out so early. But, as with anything else, if something like that is in the map pool, people will abuse it. It sucks, but it's just the way it is sadly.


Like I said in the live stream: you have to either know the new maps, or exclude them. There's no excuse for TLO not having vision at his rocks.
Protoss is the easy race, but I'm sticking with it.
andrea20
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada441 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 09:06:33
October 19 2010 09:06 GMT
#2871
On October 19 2010 17:55 shannn wrote:
we've seen Tester/Cool/ITR etc. playing in GSL1 we could now see how TLO plays against the real top and you must know that SangHo has a chance on winning the tournament.
TLO just proved to me that he is capable of winning against top players in the GSL


Tester and FruitDealer both had to deal with cheese early game and defended them. TLO doesn't deserve to be mentioned with them if he can't do the same. Remember that FruitDealer lost his expo hatchery against NexLiveForever and came back to win it. And we don't need to mention Tester's proxy gateway defense...
SF
Profile Joined October 2010
United States13 Posts
October 19 2010 09:06 GMT
#2872
On October 19 2010 18:02 Mato wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2010 17:53 Shakes wrote:
On October 19 2010 17:40 Mato wrote:
On October 19 2010 17:16 KingRajesh wrote:
On October 19 2010 17:08 SF wrote:
The match-up between TLO and SangHo prompted me to create a Liquid account just to post in this thread.

As a new fan to pro gaming, I've been thoroughly enthralled by the entertainment value in SC2. And especially entertained by the creative and obviously talented players.

After watching this round 64 live on GOMtv (for the first time ever), and seeing several mediocre players advance, I am disgusted that somehow the tournament designers managed to put two players that are clearly and obviously massively superior in skill to their round 64 counterparts against each other in a preliminary round, forcing an elimination.

This is the equivalent of having an NFL Quarterback Tournament, by which the winner is decided by elimination in 1v1, and in the very first round Peyton Manning is pitted against Drew Brees, while every other match-up involves a 2nd string nobody.

The outcome of this "GSL" now seems as much decided by pure luck as it is by actual skill. How can a tournament that forces the elimination of top players in the preliminaries be seen as credible whatsoever at all?

I didn't feel as if "the best player won" today, as I would hope to feel. I am a fan of both players, and I felt disgusted and cheated of the pleasure of watching one of my favorite stars play again in the tournament. The TLO vs. SangHo game should have been either in the final of the tournament, best out of 7, or at a minimum the Round of 8.

This needs to be fixed before pro 1v1 gaming becomes a joke. I'm sure a new system can be devised that pits players of appropriate skill at appropriate times in a tournament against each other.

P.S. The Rankings by GSL are pathetic. TLO = a "private", and a fake "Boxer" is now going to be a "Sergent" or something? That's like calling Babe Ruth a "little leaguer" and telling a bench warmer that he's "MVP" because the refs didn't know how to set up a fair game.

P.P.S. And yes, I'm very pissed right now, so apologies if any of this seems like "hating", but it's also important, because this is the "new guys" opinion on something that seemed so cool at first, and now seems lame.




In my opinion, a system where TLO, SangHo and the rest of the top players are kept from each other till later in the tournament doesn't make for a fair tournament. It would make it a joke if you were'nt considered a top player, cause they'd intentionally feed you to the best players so you'd be eliminated, while the player who draws the most moves on. It adds a feeling of illegitimacy.

Good players should have to play other good players, depending on the brackets. Anything else is garbage. College Basketball is stupid for that reason, because the NCAA makes the brackets to get viewers, not get the best games.


Uhh yeah, ever heard of tennis? Good, proven players should never have to play each other in initial rounds. Its up to newcomers to break into the scene.


The problem with that theory is that I wouldn't say TLO is a proven player. He's obviously a fan favourite and all, but even going back to the beta his tournament track record isn't so hot.


I agree totally, its far to early in SC2 to have a definitive 1-64 ranking style system.

I'm just pointing out to the clown who thinks that good players should play good players that his thinking is flawed. It simply makes no sense, nobody wants to see the favourites knock each other up and then one-sided games later deeper in the competition.


Thanks for backing me up a little lol
nozshand
Profile Joined October 2010
4 Posts
October 19 2010 09:06 GMT
#2873
On October 19 2010 17:55 shannn wrote:
As much as I hate that TLO is eliminated but I knew that no matter who went on the winner deserved it and both were skilled enough to reach ro16 at minimum.

I knew SangHo was an ex A-team progamer. That's like the level of Tester/Cool/ITR.
...



SangHo is actually way better than tester/cool, cool has never qualified from any major progamer scene such as MSL/OSL, and he barely got to play in proleague match, on the other hand Sangho has beaten Jaedong on TV
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
October 19 2010 09:06 GMT
#2874
On October 19 2010 18:02 motbob wrote:
Wooooo, #1 Liquibet rank!!!

....wait....


omg match fix'ing!

GET EM BOYZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
UnholyRai
Profile Joined September 2010
720 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 09:07:59
October 19 2010 09:07 GMT
#2875
apologies for not updating the thread, I fell asleep. (these early games are at some god awful time for Europeans). Thanks to whichever mod or admin bolded the winners for me/us
Gogo Grubby.
TBO
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1350 Posts
October 19 2010 09:08 GMT
#2876
On October 19 2010 18:06 andrea20 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2010 17:55 shannn wrote:
we've seen Tester/Cool/ITR etc. playing in GSL1 we could now see how TLO plays against the real top and you must know that SangHo has a chance on winning the tournament.
TLO just proved to me that he is capable of winning against top players in the GSL


Tester and FruitDealer both had to deal with cheese early game and defended them. TLO doesn't deserve to be mentioned with them if he can't do the same. Remember that FruitDealer lost his expo hatchery against NexLiveForever and came back to win it. And we don't need to mention Tester's proxy gateway defense...


Tester didn't defend the cheese in GSL2 though
SF
Profile Joined October 2010
United States13 Posts
October 19 2010 09:08 GMT
#2877
On October 19 2010 18:05 Panicc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2010 18:03 SF wrote:
On October 19 2010 17:51 lyhb wrote:


admit it, if tlo had won the series you wouldnt be sputing this non sense... ugh some people need to dead the drama



Lol some truth to that, however I will say now that I've calmed down that I would still write a post about it, just not as emotionally charged. Because you can argue it all day long, but SangHo OR TLO was better than the rest of those qualifiers combined today. Grrr



How should they know how good SangHo is? He was a newcomer to SC2 .


Well let's see, I checked the TL forums the day before the tourney and practically everyone was saying how tough it was going to be for TLO to get past SangHo. Artosis and Tasteless were talking about it the whole night. Apparently everyone was in on the "secret" of how good SangHo is except the tournament devs.
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
October 19 2010 09:12 GMT
#2878
On October 19 2010 18:08 TBO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2010 18:06 andrea20 wrote:
On October 19 2010 17:55 shannn wrote:
we've seen Tester/Cool/ITR etc. playing in GSL1 we could now see how TLO plays against the real top and you must know that SangHo has a chance on winning the tournament.
TLO just proved to me that he is capable of winning against top players in the GSL


Tester and FruitDealer both had to deal with cheese early game and defended them. TLO doesn't deserve to be mentioned with them if he can't do the same. Remember that FruitDealer lost his expo hatchery against NexLiveForever and came back to win it. And we don't need to mention Tester's proxy gateway defense...


Tester didn't defend the cheese in GSL2 though


Did people eventually confirm he lost to cheese? I heard he lost straight up.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
SF
Profile Joined October 2010
United States13 Posts
October 19 2010 09:12 GMT
#2879
On October 19 2010 18:05 -Archangel- wrote:
Hey people stop calling PhoenixWerra a bad player or "miles behind" or whatever.
For your info, PhoenixWerra is one of the top zergs on korea server and plays as Kore on US server and it basically a top Zerg there as well. He is as fast as Cellawerra but has better decision making and better gamesense.

He also streams on occasion and is in TL's list of streamers. He is basically one of us.
TLO and SangHo did seem better but Phoenix also played a strong good games and showed us he is a good player.



I'd give PhoenixWerra the benefit of the doubt, but I also know what I saw and comon, TLO and SangHo was just a different realm of play. You could literally feel the stress in the game. Even the announcers were getting caught up in it. Every little detail was important to both players. The micro was amazing. He's really good, but I just don't think Phoenix would have stood a chance against either of them.
Panicc
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany163 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-19 09:13:38
October 19 2010 09:13 GMT
#2880
On October 19 2010 18:08 SF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2010 18:05 Panicc wrote:
On October 19 2010 18:03 SF wrote:
On October 19 2010 17:51 lyhb wrote:


admit it, if tlo had won the series you wouldnt be sputing this non sense... ugh some people need to dead the drama



Lol some truth to that, however I will say now that I've calmed down that I would still write a post about it, just not as emotionally charged. Because you can argue it all day long, but SangHo OR TLO was better than the rest of those qualifiers combined today. Grrr



How should they know how good SangHo is? He was a newcomer to SC2 .


Well let's see, I checked the TL forums the day before the tourney and practically everyone was saying how tough it was going to be for TLO to get past SangHo. Artosis and Tasteless were talking about it the whole night. Apparently everyone was in on the "secret" of how good SangHo is except the tournament devs.


He was good in Bw. But you cant automaticly push him in s2. There are many Ex-Bwler who are now bad. Yes you can see some potential from history but thats it.
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