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On February 10 2011 08:44 DoctorClock wrote:
Very unprofessional call. Under what circumstances is it permissible to simply leave the game and demand a rematch because you don't like the way your opponent is playing? That is simply a forfeit and there is no reason Avilo should be expected to re-game. Furthermore, Beastyqt was continually whining and insulting Avilo as well as pausing the game for no given reason. The fact that Avilo may have problems with other sites does not make the call warranted. Both sides had armies, minerals, and unit producing structures. It was nowhere near a draw. The game may not have been exciting, but it was still not over. posted on the last page:
official statement of craftcup on the facts:
we decided to rate this match as a draw and told palyers to leave for a rematch. That is what beasty then did. more details on this later. Avilo officially did not accept our decision for a draw.
The admins decided that it was a draw and ordered a rematch. They told both players to leave the game, which beasty did. He did not decide to leave on his own.
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I'm glad Avilo didn't accept the rematch, he stood his ground and it was the right thing to do.
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On February 10 2011 08:47 niteReloaded wrote:
I'm glad Avilo didn't accept the rematch, he stood his ground and it was the right thing to do.
Agreed.
I like Beasty and I don't like Avilo but in this case he definitely comes off in a better light.
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On February 10 2011 08:46 Redox wrote:
Lol all these over the top reactions over a simple regame decision in the semis of a 20 $ tournament. Makes me kinda embaressed to be a nerd.
Also that was a clear regame in my opinion. Only mistake was to call it that late. Was a regame already 20 min earlier.
Normally players decide to regame though and dont need an admin for that. But Avilo was strangely stubborn.
I remember a broodwar game recently between Flash and someone else I forgot. There the admins called decided to regame after about 40 minutes. And in that game was still much more happening then in this game between Avilo and BeastyQT. And I remember no drama there, although the game was much more important. Really? Which game was that? I'd like to read up on that (and the admins' reasoning) as I haven't seen a situation quite like this before.
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I won this series 2-0, and beastyQT bms me the entire game, and then pauses midgame to bitch to admins to allow him a re-game so he has a chance again...
I was in control of both games, first game he BM's and doesn't leave for 5-10 minutes after he lost.
So all the admins listened to his bitching, and didn't let the game finish out like men. I've never been DQ'd from a tournment before because of my PLAYSTYLE. That is fucking ridiculous.
When it comes down to it, I do not care about the 20 dollars, I only care about winning fair and square, which I did, I 2-0'd beasty. And then I heard casters were BMing me as well, which is pretty sad, as I never have BM'd any of them, not did I even respond to beasty's bM for the half hour that he was during the second game we played.
I won 2-0, admins sided with european favorite there even tho he was being raped. So to all you craftcup players, if you're in a long series, and you don't like how your opponent is playing...msg the admins and they will give you the win even when you're losing!
Pretty much robbed of a legit win here.
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^ avilo is a troll on the forums, and a troll in the game. So you're saying he should be rewarded for that?
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That call by the admins has made Craftcup credibility disappear in my eyes. Avilo was the player who made slow but steady attacks and progress. He did not want to accept a draw since he was trying very hard to win.
Beasty on the other hand was whining and BMing the whole time, and at the same time made no attacks what so ever. Hell if I was admin I would just ban Beasty because of BM. The worst part though, and this really felt bad, was the casters (imbalancedtv crew) bias towards Beasty and their craptalk of Avilo, really unproffesional.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Right call by the Craft Cup admins.
Sure that wasn't a stalemate in the purest sense, but that game was going to drag on indefinately. Both players had all their production facilities spread out all over the map, so one successful push would not win the game. Both players were maxed and had massive amounts of minerals left in the bank. It was in neither player's advantage to attack in any decisive way. If one player broke through, the other could hold a different line and make the game even longer.
So meanwhile, CC has one finalist already, and that person is waiting and waiting and can't wait forever. Letting that game finish is simply not an option. You cannot call a winner either* because neither player had a strong lead, despite what Avilo might think. One player had a small positional and army advantage, the other had a large econ advantage. I'm sure someone would've won eventually, but you can't wait another hour to find out. So the decision to regame is the only possible choice in that situation, and Avilo is solely responsible for his decision to not go through with it.
* I actually think had that game played out, Beastyqt would've won because of his 3k gas advantage. Avilo had the larger army, but not so much of a larger army that he would've been in a good position if he attacked. Because the production facilities were all over the place (and liftable) than I can't see how Beasty would not be able to rebuild his army if he had lost it slowing Avilo down. At that point, a lucky nuke or HSM would be the only decider, and it takes, what 30 apm? to manage that situation.
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On February 10 2011 08:46 Redox wrote:
Lol all these over the top reactions over a simple regame decision in the semis of a 20 $ tournament. Makes me kinda embaressed to be a nerd.
Also that was a clear regame in my opinion. Only mistake was to call it that late. Was a regame already 20 min earlier.
Normally players decide to regame though and dont need an admin for that. But Avilo was strangely stubborn.
I remember a broodwar game recently between Flash and someone else I forgot. There the admins called decided to regame after about 40 minutes. And in that game was still much more happening then in this game between Avilo and BeastyQT. And I remember no drama there, although the game was much more important.
Well I see your point but the timing of the decision was obscene. I could understand the admins calling a draw much, much earlier when both sides were truly equal and in the same position.
However at the time beasty left Avilo was in such a commanding lead it cannot be correct to call a draw at that point in time.
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On February 10 2011 08:46 Redox wrote:
Lol all these over the top reactions over a simple regame decision in the semis of a 20 $ tournament.
The things is, it presents a very slipper slope. Because a game is "boring" or "long" it should be a regame? Those are subjective terms. Who gets to decide when a game is too long or too boring.
Both sides had armies. Both sides had resources. Both sides unit producing structures. Player A was pushing into Player B. Does that sound like a game that is a draw or over?
People don't like it when bad calls are made. It sets a precedent for future bad calls to be made.
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On February 10 2011 08:50 avilo wrote:
I won this series 2-0, and beastyQT bms me the entire game, and then pauses midgame to bitch to admins to allow him a re-game so he has a chance again...
I was in control of both games, first game he BM's and doesn't leave for 5-10 minutes after he lost.
So all the admins listened to his bitching, and didn't let the game finish out like men. I've never been DQ'd from a tournment before because of my PLAYSTYLE. That is fucking ridiculous.
When it comes down to it, I do not care about the 20 dollars, I only care about winning fair and square, which I did, I 2-0'd beasty. And then I heard casters were BMing me as well, which is pretty sad, as I never have BM'd any of them, not did I even respond to beasty's bM for the half hour that he was during the second game we played.
I won 2-0, admins sided with european favorite there even tho he was being raped. So to all you craftcup players, if you're in a long series, and you don't like how your opponent is playing...msg the admins and they will give you the win even when you're losing!
Pretty much robbed of a legit win here. But well, if the admins decide to rule this game a draw and message the players to the effect of ordering to leave the game, isn't it your responsibility to accept the tournament organiser's decision?
On February 10 2011 08:52 DoctorClock wrote:
The things is, it presents a very slipper slope. Because a game is "boring" or "long" it should be a regame? Those are subjective terms. Who gets to decide when a game is too long or too boring.
Both sides had armies. Both sides had resources. Both sides unit producing structures. Player A was pushing into Player B. Does that sound like a game that is a draw or over?
People don't like it when bad calls are made. It sets a precedent for future bad calls to be made. The admins of that respective tournament. Who else is going to make that call?
I honestly believe the game would have continued for 4 or 5 more hours at this pace. Hunter-seeker missiles killing one or two tanks a minute, being replenished with 18k+ minerals constantly.
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On February 10 2011 08:42 dizzy101 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 08:33 Rushingwolf wrote:
this is so biased and a horrible decision from the craftcup retardmins
1. Avilo won the first game
2. Avilo was in the lead in the second match
Avilo wasn't in the lead in the 2nd game. Beastyqt didn't rebuild his forces, even tho he was sitting on 30k minerals, presumably because he wanted to show that a stalemate was arrived at. It's tricky for the admins to decide situations like this. Avilo was definitely abusing the turtle strategy to the point where it's game-breaking. If you turtle and drag out the game so that the map gets mined out and aim for a stalemate, then I think admins can step in and declare the other player the winner. It's not really sportsmanlike behavior, even tho technically you're not breaking any official rules.
He wasn't dragging out the game. It wasn't like he was passive and AFK. He made ravens and HSM'd, he nuked, he tried to advance with tanks, used vikings to harassed, etc. If you don't like his style, that's your opinion, but the admins re-gaming them because beastyqt complained and the commentators whined just shows what a joke Craftcup is.
In the end it was Avilo pushing forward and trying to win while Beastyqt complained and BM'd, then eventually quiting. And using resources banked as a base for deciding who was ahead is not appropriate. Units don't produce instantly, having +3k gas in the bank (especially when they both had ~10k+) means nothing if you made the wrong decision and lost your army. You're not going to reproduce 100 food before he crushes production buildings.
I think Beastyqt is trash now that I've seen how he treats people. The amount of BM he threw at Avilo (who said nothing most of the game) shows what type of player he is.
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On February 10 2011 08:50 dizzy101 wrote:
^ avilo is a troll on the forums, and a troll in the game. So you're saying he should be rewarded for that?
I detest Avilo's posting, but that doesn't change the fact that he won the first game and should've been allowed to finish out the second game.
EDIT: although after reading tree.hugger's posts I kind of see his point. Maybe a regame would be the best decision considering time constraints and so on - in which case avilo is in the wrong and I can go back to disliking him =)
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On February 10 2011 08:50 avilo wrote:
I won this series 2-0, and beastyQT bms me the entire game, and then pauses midgame to bitch to admins to allow him a re-game so he has a chance again...
I was in control of both games, first game he BM's and doesn't leave for 5-10 minutes after he lost.
So all the admins listened to his bitching, and didn't let the game finish out like men. I've never been DQ'd from a tournment before because of my PLAYSTYLE. That is fucking ridiculous.
When it comes down to it, I do not care about the 20 dollars, I only care about winning fair and square, which I did, I 2-0'd beasty. And then I heard casters were BMing me as well, which is pretty sad, as I never have BM'd any of them, not did I even respond to beasty's bM for the half hour that he was during the second game we played.
I won 2-0, admins sided with european favorite there even tho he was being raped. So to all you craftcup players, if you're in a long series, and you don't like how your opponent is playing...msg the admins and they will give you the win even when you're losing!
Pretty much robbed of a legit win here.
You were right to not BM back at him during the game, you were being less campy then he was and that was what the was BMing about most of the time too. There was clearly some favoritism (I don't know about CraftCup for certain, but definitely from some casters) and that's just ridiculous.
I feel sorry for you man, I hope you have better luck in tournies in the future.
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On February 10 2011 08:51 tree.hugger wrote:
* I actually think had that game played out, Beastyqt would've won because of his 3k gas advantage.
beasty made 70 marines, if he made high gas units that avilo did, they would be even, those marines would be useless in a fight
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On February 10 2011 08:50 avilo wrote:
I won 2-0, admins sided with european favorite there even tho he was being raped. So to all you craftcup players, if you're in a long series, and you don't like how your opponent is playing...msg the admins and they will give you the win even when you're losing!
Pretty much robbed of a legit win here.
i think you know yourself that this is bullshit. Being raped, lol.
No side could attack the other. You were both turteling. it just seemed to you near the end you made some small progress, because BeastyQT was talking with admins about a regame and didnt build any new stuff to show that it was a draw.
He had like 20 k minerals and 3 k gas, but didnt build anything as he could even defend with like 140 supply. he could have build stuff any time and drawn out the game until one of you fell asleep.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
People seem to be forgetting that Gomas, who is a Polish player (late at night for him), is waiting for this series to finish. You cannot allow one player to wait for two hours just to allow a de facto stalemate to work itself out.
This cuts both ways, at which point does being fair to Avilo and Beastyqt mean being unfair to Gomas. I think Beasty's BM was poor form, but Avilo really needed to accept a draw in that situation.
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On February 10 2011 08:52 trashcan wrote:
He wasn't dragging out the game. It wasn't like he was passive and AFK. He made ravens and HSM'd, he nuked, he tried to advance with tanks, used vikings to harassed, etc. If you don't like his style, that's your opinion, but the admins re-gaming them because beastyqt complained and the commentators whined just shows what a joke Craftcup is.
You do not know how the admins arrived at the conclusion they did or that casters/audience/players affected them. This kind of speculation doesn't help anyone.
tree hugger does have legitimate points from a tournament organiser's point of view.
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On February 10 2011 08:51 tree.hugger wrote:
Right call by the Craft Cup admins.
Sure that wasn't a stalemate in the purest sense, but that game was going to drag on indefinately. Both players had all their production facilities spread out all over the map, so one successful push would not win the game. Both players were maxed and had massive amounts of minerals left in the bank. It was in neither player's advantage to attack in any decisive way. If one player broke through, the other could hold a different line and make the game even longer.
So meanwhile, CC has one finalist already, and that person is waiting and waiting and can't wait forever. Letting that game finish is simply not an option. You cannot call a winner either* because neither player had a strong lead, despite what Avilo might think. One player had a small positional and army advantage, the other had a large econ advantage. I'm sure someone would've won eventually, but you can't wait another hour to find out. So the decision to regame is the only possible choice in that situation, and Avilo is solely responsible for his decision to not go through with it.
* I actually think had that game played out, Beastyqt would've won because of his 3k gas advantage. Avilo had the larger army, but not so much of a larger army that he would've been in a good position if he attacked. Because the production facilities were all over the place (and liftable) than I can't see how Beasty would not be able to rebuild his army if he had lost it slowing Avilo down. At that point, a lucky nuke or HSM would be the only decider, and it takes, what 30 apm? to manage that situation.
Ive played this lategame hundreds of times at this point. I was slowly gaining ground onto his side, and once I get to the central gold area on his half, you can attack and both possibly trade, with re-max on hellions/tanks/vikings+turrets, etc. Also, had more ravens, slightly more vikings, and a thor base which slowly kills his horrible skeleton composition. Just another round of nukes or two and im at that gold sweetspot.
And since you don't lose army breaking into their line, you can push to their production and stop remax, which is what I was doing as I was almost to his side of the map. aka winning.
I'm not even gonna argue about that. I won the series 2-0, so I was not going to replay a series I just won.
Even worse, the kid BM's the entire game, and then knows he's losing so pauses the game for 2 minutes to bitch to admins to re-game it in the middle of the game. IT'd be nice if at every tournament anyone entered, if you don't like how the game is going in your favor, you can message the admins and ask to end the game in a regame/draw...oh wait, that's laughable.
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By the way avilo, please upload the replay too. Would be interesting to see the exact standings when the Beasty quitted.
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EPT
