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On February 10 2011 09:05 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:03 avilo wrote:On February 10 2011 09:02 Baum wrote:On February 10 2011 08:57 tree.hugger wrote:
People seem to be forgetting that Gomas, who is a Polish player (late at night for him), is waiting for this series to finish. You cannot allow one player to wait for two hours just to allow a de facto stalemate to work itself out. So postpone the finals. That would be a more legit decision than anything like this. Obviously. I was winning the game, and any tournament with common sense would let you play it out and postpone the finals. That would be common sense. But no. Craftcup instead decides to DQ the player that won. ..... After they decided that they would not let the game play out due to time issues, it's on you to accept (regame) or deny (risk of being DQd) the decision. And in the end, they DQd the player that refused to regame.
There is no logic in "we cannot let the game play out due to time issues" THUS "we are going to have a regame".
If time is the issue you don't start another game.
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I for one will never be watching another CraftCup. When avilo was pusing and had a huge lead they call it. Craftcup is now a huge joke to watch; let alone to waste their time to play in. I am all for promoting Esports but these guys are making people not want to watch it.
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On February 10 2011 09:08 Holgerius wrote:
I think it was an absolutely horrible decision. If Avilo still thinks he has a chance to win the game and is showing signs of doing something (which he was, although quite slowly) you can't just leave and say ''Regame''. The game was not over by any means, both players could still win. How does not liking your opponents playstyle warrant a regame?
Just to make this clear: the admins decided to call this game a draw and told the players to leave.
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On February 10 2011 09:09 Smurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:05 Bobster wrote:On February 10 2011 09:03 avilo wrote:On February 10 2011 09:02 Baum wrote:On February 10 2011 08:57 tree.hugger wrote:
People seem to be forgetting that Gomas, who is a Polish player (late at night for him), is waiting for this series to finish. You cannot allow one player to wait for two hours just to allow a de facto stalemate to work itself out. So postpone the finals. That would be a more legit decision than anything like this. Obviously. I was winning the game, and any tournament with common sense would let you play it out and postpone the finals. That would be common sense. But no. Craftcup instead decides to DQ the player that won. ..... After they decided that they would not let the game play out due to time issues, it's on you to accept (regame) or deny (risk of being DQd) the decision. And in the end, they DQd the player that refused to regame. There is no logic in "we cannot let the game play out due to time issues" THUS "we are going to have a regame". If time is the issue you don't start another game.
Indeed. The time-argument is just bullshit.
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On February 10 2011 09:06 Viperxx wrote:
Not trying to cause drama, just my two cents. If you want to watch a tourny, find a different one, this one is poorly run, and commentated, imo =).
This sentence alone disqualifies your whole post as nonsense. There were at least 4 casters here, and there are also different ones every tournament. Casters are NOT direcctly asociated with the tournament.
Also, because of one decision you have witnessed and dont like, you believe you can judge how this tournament is run as a whole? Apart from that, you will find the very same admins also in other tournaments.
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On February 10 2011 09:11 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:08 Holgerius wrote:
I think it was an absolutely horrible decision. If Avilo still thinks he has a chance to win the game and is showing signs of doing something (which he was, although quite slowly) you can't just leave and say ''Regame''. The game was not over by any means, both players could still win. How does not liking your opponents playstyle warrant a regame? Just to make this clear: the admins decided to call this game a draw and told the players to leave.
That doesn't make the decision good. The game wasn't over, Avilo wanted to continue to play and he thought he could win.
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Here's a convo with one of the admins during and after the game, even more lulz is that they say in the regame no1 is allowed to play Terran...LOL...I think you guys can see what happpened during this tournament...
DURING BEASTY'S BM WHINEY PAUSE:
brotkohl: so the decision is that it will be a regame
and no1 is allowed to play t
avilo: lol
im about to finish this up
brotkohl: u had 1 hour to finish it
u didnt so now u leave
avilo: thing is im winning
lofl
brotkohl: thing is it will take another 2 hours
and no1 wants to see this
avilo: well
then give me the win
i'm further ahead
more ravens etc
brotkohl: leave now
if u refuse to play beasty gets a freewin
avilo: are you kidding me
AFTER BEASTY'S BITCHING AND ADMINS TELL HIM TO LEAVE:
avilo: i just won that series
fair and square
there's no way
he could have won
from that position
he's out of gas
and i had 4k gas
in the bank
watch the replay
brotkohl: he actually had more gas
i told u if u refuse to play
avilo: either way
i won
brotkohl: then u r out
avilo: why would you dQ me
when i just won the series?
i had the watchtowers
etc
and a better unit comp
brotkohl: ur call u play or not?
avilo: is this how you play in europe?
i just won the series...
that's bullshit
just because u or someone else
doesn't like HOW im playing
doesn't mean i just did not win that series
be FAIR
this is SC2 not "who you liike more SC2'
i won that game fair and square
brotkohl: i want ur decision
u play or not?
avilo: i just won the series
u can't disqualify someolne because his opponent dislikes how he plays
brotkohl: so u dont want to play?
avilo: i just did play my match
i won 2-0 vs beasty
i just won the match
i will post this on TL
afterwards
if you want to DQ me after i won just because you dislike my playstyle
brotkohl: im still waiting for a decision
avilo: i'm waiting for your guys decision
i won the match
why don't you give the win to the player that won
?
brotkohl: i told u our decision
if u dont play beasty advances
avilo: ur decision is to give it to beastyqt because he bitched?
i just did play i won 2-0
brotkohl: u get 1 min to give me an answer
avilo: i gave you my answer i just won the series
brotkohl: so u wont replay?
avilo: replay what?
dude i just won 2-0 vs qt
brotkohl: that second game
avilo: explain how the second game doesn't count?
brotkohl: so what i see in this response is a "no i dont play vs beasty"
am i right?
avilo: who do i play next?
i jsut did play beasty
i won 2-0
you saw it
as well as everyone on stream
i'm going to post this
entire convo
+ everything else
on TL
if you seriously DQ me
due to my PLAYSTYLE
i won the series fair and square
you know it
i've never heard of a tournament
where one player
can BITCH
for the win
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On February 10 2011 09:09 Smurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:05 Bobster wrote:On February 10 2011 09:03 avilo wrote:On February 10 2011 09:02 Baum wrote:On February 10 2011 08:57 tree.hugger wrote:
People seem to be forgetting that Gomas, who is a Polish player (late at night for him), is waiting for this series to finish. You cannot allow one player to wait for two hours just to allow a de facto stalemate to work itself out. So postpone the finals. That would be a more legit decision than anything like this. Obviously. I was winning the game, and any tournament with common sense would let you play it out and postpone the finals. That would be common sense. But no. Craftcup instead decides to DQ the player that won. ..... After they decided that they would not let the game play out due to time issues, it's on you to accept (regame) or deny (risk of being DQd) the decision. And in the end, they DQd the player that refused to regame. There is no logic in "we cannot let the game play out due to time issues" THUS "we are going to have a regame". If time is the issue you don't start another game.
I dunno, man. I honestly believe the game would have gone on for another couple hours at this rate. At what point can.. at what point should the admins step in and make a decision?
On February 10 2011 09:12 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:11 Bobster wrote:On February 10 2011 09:08 Holgerius wrote:
I think it was an absolutely horrible decision. If Avilo still thinks he has a chance to win the game and is showing signs of doing something (which he was, although quite slowly) you can't just leave and say ''Regame''. The game was not over by any means, both players could still win. How does not liking your opponents playstyle warrant a regame? Just to make this clear: the admins decided to call this game a draw and told the players to leave. That doesn't make the decision good. The game wasn't over, Avilo wanted to continue to play and he thought he could win.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I already said that I have a hard time agreeing with the decision as well. I definitely wouldn't call it a "good" decision. I was just clarifying the facts to that guy who thought that beasty left on his own.
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terrible decisions made, craftcup lost a lot of credability in my eyes
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don't explain urself avilo you did the right thing - respect
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Wow. Craftcup has to be unfeatured from Teamliquid. This is beyond a joke.
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ya CraftCup is a huge joke..
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So here's the pertinent parts of the conversation:
brotkohl: so the decision is that it will be a regame
and no1 is allowed to play t
avilo: lol
im about to finish this up
brotkohl: u had 1 hour to finish it
u didnt so now u leave
avilo: thing is im winning
lofl
brotkohl: thing is it will take another 2 hours
and no1 wants to see this
I disagree with the admin's decision to end the game right there. Should've given avilo and beasty an ultimatum at the hour mark with little to no progress done and the game still up in the air (avilo with the better army, beasty with the bigger bank) - like, I dunno... "the game will be declared a draw at X:XX minutes"
BUT! After that (bad) decision was made, it's on avilo to follow the tournament organisers decision for a regame, imo.
edit: also, fucking lol at the "no1 is allowed to play t" bit. That's just fucking ridiculous.
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On February 10 2011 08:57 tree.hugger wrote:
People seem to be forgetting that Gomas, who is a Polish player (late at night for him), is waiting for this series to finish. You cannot allow one player to wait for two hours just to allow a de facto stalemate to work itself out.
I think that this was one of the main factors along with the fact that they did not want to tournament to run until like 3:00am, however I think things could have been handled much more smoothly. And while I see where the decision is coming from I don't agree with it at all.
I think a better call would have been to let the games go on and reschedule the finals for a later date. If the tournament admins need to go to bed, (remember the fact that these guys all have jobs and that SC2 is likely not their breadwinner) have the players finish it out, and play the finals the next day. This way gomas (other finalist waiting on the winner) would not have to wait all night to play for $20 and the players would finish things out. If the players turtle up completely and go to bed leaving the game running, obviously that would warrent an obvious stalemate call and a regame, and there is no excuse for not regaming in that situation.
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On February 10 2011 09:18 Bobster wrote:So here's the pertinent parts of the conversation: Show nested quote +brotkohl: so the decision is that it will be a regame
and no1 is allowed to play t
avilo: lol
im about to finish this up
brotkohl: u had 1 hour to finish it
u didnt so now u leave
avilo: thing is im winning
lofl
brotkohl: thing is it will take another 2 hours
and no1 wants to see this Fuck, that is a tough call to make. I disagree with the admin's decision to end the game right there. Should've given avilo and beasty an ultimatum - the game will be declared a draw and end at X:XX minutes. But after that (bad) decision was made, it's on avilo to follow the tournament organisers, imo.
Well if you would have told them it will be a regame in 20 mins the game would have just gone on for another 20 mins...
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Avilo was telling the admin he was about to finish the game, and was actively pushing into Beastys side of the map. And yet, avilo is not allowed to continue the game. Everyone who was watching the stream must have seen that.
Also, the no one is allowed to play Terran? Lol? This is the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen.
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I only watched the end of the game and not the first one, but i think the decision was reasonable. It is clearly a small scale tournament that is meant to be played on one evening. They can't delay it forever and let gomas wait. Rescheduling with people from different timezones and tournaments going on every day is also very hard to do.
I can understand that you saw yourself as an advantage, but he had more resources which made it even. The admins have to do something, but at which point? What if the game goes on for another hour and it is still not clear who is winning? They will be well aware that their decision pisses people off, but not finishing the tournament is just as bad.
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On February 10 2011 09:20 Despicatus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:18 Bobster wrote:So here's the pertinent parts of the conversation: brotkohl: so the decision is that it will be a regame
and no1 is allowed to play t
avilo: lol
im about to finish this up
brotkohl: u had 1 hour to finish it
u didnt so now u leave
avilo: thing is im winning
lofl
brotkohl: thing is it will take another 2 hours
and no1 wants to see this Fuck, that is a tough call to make. I disagree with the admin's decision to end the game right there. Should've given avilo and beasty an ultimatum - the game will be declared a draw and end at X:XX minutes. But after that (bad) decision was made, it's on avilo to follow the tournament organisers, imo. Well if you would have told them it will be a regame in 20 mins the game would have just gone on for another 20 mins...
Yep. So what if next game, it goes long again? And I'm ahead and going to kill him. Do we do another re-game just because beastyqt doesn't like how I play the game and that he's losing?
=/
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On February 10 2011 09:20 Despicatus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:18 Bobster wrote:So here's the pertinent parts of the conversation: brotkohl: so the decision is that it will be a regame
and no1 is allowed to play t
avilo: lol
im about to finish this up
brotkohl: u had 1 hour to finish it
u didnt so now u leave
avilo: thing is im winning
lofl
brotkohl: thing is it will take another 2 hours
and no1 wants to see this Fuck, that is a tough call to make. I disagree with the admin's decision to end the game right there. Should've given avilo and beasty an ultimatum - the game will be declared a draw and end at X:XX minutes. But after that (bad) decision was made, it's on avilo to follow the tournament organisers, imo. Well if you would have told them it will be a regame in 20 mins the game would have just gone on for another 20 mins...
Maybe, maybe not. avilo himself said he was "about to finish this up". It would've been reasonable to give him another 20 minutes to back up his word, THEN call it a draw.
I don't think either player would've bitched as much as they did if they had clarified this in advance. It's always best to involve all the players in these decisions, or at least inform them beforehand, instead of making them top-down against one of them, and spring it on them like this.
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EPT
