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DoctorClock United States. February 10 2011 08:44. Posts 37 Profile #
Very unprofessional call. Under what circumstances is it permissible to simply leave the game and demand a rematch because you don't like the way your opponent is playing? That is simply a forfeit and there is no reason Avilo should be expected to re-game. Furthermore, Beastyqt was continually whining and insulting Avilo as well as pausing the game for no given reason. The fact that Avilo may have problems with other sites does not make the call warranted. Both sides had armies, minerals, and unit producing structures. It was nowhere near a draw. The game may not have been exciting, but it was still not over
Agree! And also, please remove Special Endrey as a streamer beacause
TheMenace Germany. February 10 2011 08:36. Posts 28 PM Profile Quote #
I am sorry but Special Endrey made a fool out of himself. Not only that he is casting completely wasted but beeing so one sided in favor of Beastyqt makes me sad. I understand that the game betweeen Beasty and Avilo wasn't entertaining whatsoever but both were playing there games and a caster should respect that.
GL in the future avilo!
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On February 10 2011 09:22 IPS.ZeRo wrote:
I only watched the end of the game and not the first one, but i think the decision was reasonable. It is clearly a small scale tournament that is meant to be played on one evening. They can't delay it forever and let gomas wait. Rescheduling with people from different timezones and tournaments going on every day is also very hard to do.
I can understand that you saw yourself as an advantage, but he had more resources which made it even. The admins have to do something, but at which point? What if the game goes on for another hour and it is still not clear who is winning? They will be well aware that their decision pisses people off, but not finishing the tournament is just as bad.
How was having a regame, which was quite likely to take just as long given Avilo's playstyle, a good thing to do if they were running out of time?
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Germany3075 Posts
Blizzard's stalemate detection needs an update, imo.
On February 10 2011 09:25 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:22 IPS.ZeRo wrote:
I only watched the end of the game and not the first one, but i think the decision was reasonable. It is clearly a small scale tournament that is meant to be played on one evening. They can't delay it forever and let gomas wait. Rescheduling with people from different timezones and tournaments going on every day is also very hard to do.
I can understand that you saw yourself as an advantage, but he had more resources which made it even. The admins have to do something, but at which point? What if the game goes on for another hour and it is still not clear who is winning? They will be well aware that their decision pisses people off, but not finishing the tournament is just as bad. How was having a regame, which was quite likely to take just as long given Avilo's playstyle, a good thing to do if they were running out of time?
They were probably banking on beasty not having the patience and ending it early with an SCV rush or somesuch. :lol
Which knowing him, he would've totally done.
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On February 10 2011 09:13 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:09 Smurphy wrote:
There is no logic in "we cannot let the game play out due to time issues" THUS "we are going to have a regame".
If time is the issue you don't start another game. I dunno, man. I honestly believe the game would have gone on for another couple hours at this rate. At what point can.. at what point should the admins step in and make a decision?
If you believe that this game could go on for another couple hours then how long do you believe the next game could last? Keep in mind that avilo is up 1-0. For beasty to win he needs to win twice.
If you believe that the next game should not be TvT what kind of precedence does this set for the tournament? The tournament is able to disallow players from playing their chosen race?
Your final line is a tough question: "At what point can.. at what point should the admins step in and make a decision?"
I'm not sure on the answer to that. However, without specific guidelines in place, I would not end the game in as subjective and arbitrary a manner as occurred in this tournament. Units were being destroyed. Tactical maneuvers were occurring. Starcraft was being played. I admit that it was being played at a very slow pace. I admit that it was not very entertaining. However, these are all within the realm of "the game of Starcraft".
If you don't want this style to be played in the future make some rules about it. Creating new rules MID-GAME destroys the integrity of the tournament. The shot-clock wasn't implemented in the middle of a basketball game. New rules should not be created in the middle of a Starcraft game.
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On February 10 2011 09:22 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:20 Despicatus wrote:On February 10 2011 09:18 Bobster wrote:So here's the pertinent parts of the conversation: brotkohl: so the decision is that it will be a regame
and no1 is allowed to play t
avilo: lol
im about to finish this up
brotkohl: u had 1 hour to finish it
u didnt so now u leave
avilo: thing is im winning
lofl
brotkohl: thing is it will take another 2 hours
and no1 wants to see this Fuck, that is a tough call to make. I disagree with the admin's decision to end the game right there. Should've given avilo and beasty an ultimatum - the game will be declared a draw and end at X:XX minutes. But after that (bad) decision was made, it's on avilo to follow the tournament organisers, imo. Well if you would have told them it will be a regame in 20 mins the game would have just gone on for another 20 mins... Yep. So what if next game, it goes long again? And I'm ahead and going to kill him. Do we do another re-game just because beastyqt doesn't like how I play the game and that he's losing? =/
So that was the reason why they didnt want any1 to use terran, even though thats really a bad idea 
Seriously though Avilo, aside from the decision being right or wrong... I really really wouldn't want to be playing in a way where i either win when my enemy gets impatient or where I might win within a long long long long time when he doesn't get impatient. But well, if you just want to be winning by staying longer in the game you can keep doing that i guess.
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On February 10 2011 09:25 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:22 IPS.ZeRo wrote:
I only watched the end of the game and not the first one, but i think the decision was reasonable. It is clearly a small scale tournament that is meant to be played on one evening. They can't delay it forever and let gomas wait. Rescheduling with people from different timezones and tournaments going on every day is also very hard to do.
I can understand that you saw yourself as an advantage, but he had more resources which made it even. The admins have to do something, but at which point? What if the game goes on for another hour and it is still not clear who is winning? They will be well aware that their decision pisses people off, but not finishing the tournament is just as bad. How was having a regame, which was quite likely to take just as long given Avilo's playstyle, a good thing to do if they were running out of time?
highschooled tournament admin knowledge, dont try to find any reasoning behind it, I it gave up myself with esl/craftcup/esgl and just accept the BS now and then :D
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On February 10 2011 09:25 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:22 IPS.ZeRo wrote:
I only watched the end of the game and not the first one, but i think the decision was reasonable. It is clearly a small scale tournament that is meant to be played on one evening. They can't delay it forever and let gomas wait. Rescheduling with people from different timezones and tournaments going on every day is also very hard to do.
I can understand that you saw yourself as an advantage, but he had more resources which made it even. The admins have to do something, but at which point? What if the game goes on for another hour and it is still not clear who is winning? They will be well aware that their decision pisses people off, but not finishing the tournament is just as bad. How was having a regame, which was quite likely to take just as long given Avilo's playstyle, a good thing to do if they were running out of time?
Exactly. You can do the math on what happened. Which is why I was very pissed. This is the first craftcup i enter in weeks, and i'm playing my ass off doing well and this shit happens. Disappointing for me too. I don't give a shit about the 20 as much as I just was happy I was playing good.
It's just sad that it basically boiled down (imo) to beasty whining that he didn't like my playstyle, so they gank me out of the 2-0.
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Germany3075 Posts
The idea to not let them play T in the next game was absolutely stupid, ludicrous, just indefensible.
On February 10 2011 09:27 Smurphy wrote:Your final line is a tough question: "At what point can.. at what point should the admins step in and make a decision?"
I'm not sure on the answer to that. However, without specific guidelines in place, I would not end the game in as subjective and arbitrary a manner as occurred in this tournament. Units were being destroyed. Tactical maneuvers were occurring. Starcraft was being played. I admit that it was being played at a very slow pace. I admit that it was not very entertaining. However, these are all within the realm of "the game of Starcraft".
If you don't want this style to be played in the future make some rules about it. Creating new rules MID-GAME destroys the integrity of the tournament. The shot-clock wasn't implemented in the middle of a basketball game. New rules should not be created in the middle of a Starcraft game. Yeah, and that's absolutely the key question here.
I'm trying to find some Craftcup.com rules to check if there's anything pertaining to this incident in there, something about admin powers, game length and regame rules. But the craftcup.com site is so shitty, I can't even find the rules.
As a fun sidenote, this is the most traffic this thread has seen since its inception. :lol
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avilo,
please Post the Replays!
I missed most of your games and would like to know what happened!
Btw,
didn't like endrey's casting. Kinda was weird and biased.
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I don't think the admins deserve all this hate. They were trying to be considerate to the other finalist and simply the fact that they needed to go to bed and probably work the next day had to make a tough call.
Althought tbh I don't like the call and I agree that a regame would have not actually solved a thing. Instead playing it out and a reschedule of the finals to me would have been a better choice.
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If you make your opponent play a game that he doesn't want to play you are doing everything right. Starcraft 2 is a game that demands patience and a lot of players are lacking in that departement why not abuse that?
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On February 10 2011 09:29 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:25 Holgerius wrote:On February 10 2011 09:22 IPS.ZeRo wrote:
I only watched the end of the game and not the first one, but i think the decision was reasonable. It is clearly a small scale tournament that is meant to be played on one evening. They can't delay it forever and let gomas wait. Rescheduling with people from different timezones and tournaments going on every day is also very hard to do.
I can understand that you saw yourself as an advantage, but he had more resources which made it even. The admins have to do something, but at which point? What if the game goes on for another hour and it is still not clear who is winning? They will be well aware that their decision pisses people off, but not finishing the tournament is just as bad. How was having a regame, which was quite likely to take just as long given Avilo's playstyle, a good thing to do if they were running out of time? Exactly. You can do the math on what happened. Which is why I was very pissed.
Ya, I am quite upset myself, and I'm not even a fan of you. 
There are real stale-mate situations where no player can possibly win the game, this wasn't one of them.
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Germany3075 Posts
Ah, found them.
On delaying the tournament:
Players who cause huge delays by going afk or having a lot of DCs may possibly be removed from a running tournament. The active admin can take this decision when a match delays the progress of the whole tournament.
Hm. Progress of the tournament was being delayed, but not due to discs or going afk.
On disconnects:
Disconnecting: Freewin/Walk-Over will be granted if a) the one who disced was behind, b) the player who did not disc actually wants a walk over. Otherwise rematch.
Hm. No one was behind, the admins ordered the players to leave the game.
Also, on the wat front:
Selected livestreams are granted a wildcard per tournament to turn a BO1 into BO3. Needs to be verified by a referee. wtf kind of arbitrary bullshit is that.
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On February 10 2011 09:25 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 09:22 IPS.ZeRo wrote:
I only watched the end of the game and not the first one, but i think the decision was reasonable. It is clearly a small scale tournament that is meant to be played on one evening. They can't delay it forever and let gomas wait. Rescheduling with people from different timezones and tournaments going on every day is also very hard to do.
I can understand that you saw yourself as an advantage, but he had more resources which made it even. The admins have to do something, but at which point? What if the game goes on for another hour and it is still not clear who is winning? They will be well aware that their decision pisses people off, but not finishing the tournament is just as bad. How was having a regame, which was quite likely to take just as long given Avilo's playstyle, a good thing to do if they were running out of time?
They said they wouldn't allow them to play terran. I know its silly and now after reading the suggestion to just give 20 minutes and see what happens (although i doubt much would happen) i would tend to try that first, but tournament admins just have the duty to keep the tournament running.
What would you do if such a game of avilo happens in round 1? and round 2 ... and round 3...?
He would still argue that nobody should be disqualified because people don't like his playstyle. However it would delay the tournament forever. The point they choose to end it might not have been ideal, but you have to admit that there has to be a point where admins have to act.
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i don't like avilo
but fuck you craftcup
important part is
they make up a rule in the middle of the game
should never be a stalemate without agreement
or it being obvious
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On February 10 2011 09:33 Puremiss wrote:
I don't think the admins deserve all this hate. They were trying to be considerate to the other finalist and simply the fact that they needed to go to bed and probably work the next day had to make a tough call.
Althought tbh I don't like the call and I agree that a regame would have not actually solved a thing. Instead playing it out and a reschedule of the finals to me would have been a better choice.
Did you read the chatlog with the admin? You didn't come away thinking he was a retard not fit to run anything?
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this is pissing me off so much
not letting them play terran also? ROFL
biggest fucking bullshit of all time
like honestly? avilo can play how he wants, he's following the rules and acting completely honorably towards you guys, yet you give him shit
he does NOTHING WRONG and you say "regame or you're dq'd"
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like WHAT FUCKING LOGIC
ARE THEY USING
FUCK
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game is played til one player concedes, not til an admin feels like it should end
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That was outrageous. Being considerate towards a player who's waiting can't possibly be a reason for admins to call a draw in a game that's still going. I have never seen avilo play before, and to be quite frank I don't care if his strategy is considered lame and gay - if you have a strategy that is within the boundaries of the game then there's nothing to whine about. If the players don't agree that it's a stalemate, then it's not and the game should continue.
As for Mr. Special Olympics Endrey I couldn't bear to listen to the guy after a while. I will happily overlook any speech impediment (i.e. German accent) but being as biased as he was during this game is just plain annoying. Big boooh for you.
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EPT
