EPTCraftCup Weekly Tournaments - Page 14
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AbaNdonFaiTH
United States3 Posts
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UnholyRai
720 Posts
On February 10 2011 10:01 AbaNdonFaiTH wrote: I was really enjoying that game sure it was slow moving. That is why you have casters to make it exciting. Day9 or even totalbiscuit would not have been talking about how long and boring the game was. Instead they would make the game even more epic than it was. :-) I was also enjoying the game. It was something new, it was different. It wasn't a 4 gate or a roach all in. It was something I had never seen before and I was actually really enjoying it. It was a tactical masterclass like an hour long game of chess. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
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Maista
Germany131 Posts
On February 10 2011 09:59 UnholyRai wrote: Maista you and the other referee were pressured into the decision by Beastyqt. Yes, you're not perfect, you're extremely unprofessional. You called the draw at a time when Avilo was actively pushing into Beastys base, Avilo even said in the transcript to the admin that he was about to finish the game up. Till now i have never spoken a single word with beastyqt. The rest of what you said is already covered a dozen of times, sorry i won't repeat myself. ## Everybody who wants to discuss this in detail is welcome to chat with me face to face. I am always open to fresh ideas to situations like that. Simply send me a PM. I also highly apreciate the amount of emails i already got with both positive and negative feedback. This will all help to improve our decision making in the future. | ||
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SpeedyBK
Germany9 Posts
The usual procedure includes inforimg the two players and then replaying the match. As both players were set to busy ingame it took much longer for somebody to actually receive the message via another chat client. Why do the admins not join the game as refs? As referees they can talk to the players and pause the game in such a situation. And they dont need another chat client. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
Let the situation play out like that and delay the final. Forget the idea of forcing these players to choose their off-races, just act as if you've never had that idea and posted about it. Forget that ever happened. Now. I won't tell. | ||
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UnholyRai
720 Posts
On February 10 2011 10:04 Maista wrote: Till now i have never spoken a single word with beastyqt. The rest of what you said is already covered a dozen of times, sorry i won't repeat myself. ## . Semantics, regardless of which admin was in contact with beastyqt - they were pressured into the decision by him, that much is blatantly obvious to anyone who watched the stream. I haven't seen the rest covered at all, except by you saying it's not up for discussion. | ||
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Beastyqt
Serbia516 Posts
First of all, if I knew games will be 1hour 20min long each I would give him free win, because someone who's tactic is to make game as long and as boring is possible is clearly a person who wants to win really bad, probably for money because he wont get "fame" for sure with that playstyle. Difference between avilo's BM and mine is that he was BM to me in first game telling me to leave and then after the game being BM on whisper and then putting me on ignore, but ofc others couldnt see it that. Was I bm to him? yes I was, I dont think player like him should be allowed to play any tournaments. Tournaments are made to take money, practise, get "fame" and have fun (for players) and there is other side - a viewer part where they want to see a good games and maybe even learn something from them. avilo playing that game failed to achieve any of that and with his play made all this drama and made everyone's evening boring - game wise. I noticed some people said I cried and whined, I dont really look at it like that, WHOLE this thing is pretty funny for me, sure like I said I was bm to him during second game I did it to make game little bit "better" in viewer pov and to have fun myself, but again I wasnt mad and im not mad atm - like I said whole this thing is funny to me  Some people said he was "in adventage" because he pushed 5 meters in game? lol I could keep pulling back for another 3 hours, I had 25k minerals and 6k gas while he had lower. He pushed at left side at which there was NOTHING valuable to destroy, there was 2 expos which were mined out and couple of rax/factory/starport which can be lifted and moved away. By doing that I could in theory play that game for another 2-3 hours. Do you really think after 1 hour 30min gave and me having 25k minerals and 6 gas he would kill me 10-20-30-60 minutes after..? Did you even watch the game and see that in 1 hour 30minutes he progressed from his gold to xel naga towers? Im not saying I had the win or that he did, all I know game wouldnt finish in 3 hours or less in game. Some of you said "calling someone lame when you are doing same build", just proves how much that person doesnt anything about starcraft. I started with normal mmm/tank/medivac play, I tried to push in on several places, I droped in his base but I cant break 1000 turrets and 100 tanks without losing game by eventually not having minerals to reproduce. If you are dealing full mech for example you cant make marines (I think thats obvious) you need to make tanks and marauders, if he makes ravens with upgrades and vikings I cant make helions, I have to make same - sounds logical enough? Think about it. Some people said I was BM when I paused game, I was talking to admins during that time and then people said I was BM for leaving and asking regame, I didnt quit and ask for regame, admins told me to leave it. For people who said "i'll never watch Craftcup again", thats just wrong. Just because 2 players had an argument and because of 2 players turning the tournament the way it was doesnt mean that every next or previous tournament was and will be like that. Craftcup will still be great. Opinions about admin decision making is different, some may think they did good or that they did bad thing. I dont mind admins DQ'ing me from event because I was BM after all and he did deserve it after whispering me and was BM while doing it even tho no one saw it Only thing I dont like about craftcup admins after this - 2 weeks ago one player was very BM to me, in game and in whisper, I contacted admin about it and I got "ok" answer and I didnt get any other reply nor' anything was done about it and now I get DQ'd for same thing that was done to me 2 weeks ago.Craftcup admins are still one of best out there, Craftcup as tournament is great as well, in my last interview I did say that my favourite tournament is Craftcup because of admins, casters and how tournament was made overall, sure they maybe made mistake but they are human after all. I got dissapointed by all admins of Craftcup with their decision about DQing me for being BM (not because it wasnt right decision but because nothing was done 2 weeks before it). After all this im pretty happy, I know Gomas he is very nice guy, he deserved to win and im not butthurt for not winning Craftcup. Some people might like me some dont, but remember its all a game and not life or death situation and you werent part of it, you are just watching - take it easy. I really wish Craftcup all best, because they are one of the best | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
Semantics, regardless of which admin was in ..... I haven't seen the rest covered at all, except by you saying it's not up for discussion. let's skip the semantics and get to the facts.. its just $20 4+ hour tournament run for lower tier players to have fun... you're taking this too seriously and over analyzing every thing. even if the admins made an error... you can make more money collecting empty beer cans and pop bottles than spending 4+ hours in this event. | ||
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UnholyRai
720 Posts
On February 10 2011 10:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: let's skip the semantics and get to the facts.. its just $20 4+ hour tournament run for lower tier players to have fun... you're taking this too seriously and over analyzing every thing. even if the admins made an error... you can make more money collecting empty beer cans and pop bottles than spending 4+ hours in this event. That isn't the point here. I thought all featured tournaments on TL.net were meant to be professionally run. I guess you're saying I'm wrong about that? | ||
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blueX
Norway2 Posts
A special match indeed, though watching Endrey's stream, I don't think any of it should have consequences for him atleast, I laughed even before he laughed, I had already "seen" what was about happen before he commented. Yeh, I can go with slightly biased, but concidering last match, IDK if he had some comments regarding anvilo's style. If you can't handle comments on your style of play, then what are you doing playing this game??? Not saying I liked the BM'ing by beast, that was not needed from him. Watch ANY sport and you'll see biased casters... Endrey was drunk (I thought it was great entertainment in a otherwise rather boring first hour of gameplay of game2). Yes, you'll never see that happening on Eurosport or on a live GSL or something, but with 3 streams from the tournament, why would it matter? It said in his stream info, he stated it multiple times, and it was entertaining. Exactly what the SC2 scene needs (not drunk casters but entertainment). I'm not saying it's ok for all the casters to be drunk, but as i tuned in, I'd rather watch his stream nevertheless than the two other streams up, as I myself (true, biased towards Endrey) enjoy his stream more than the LQ one and the other one that was casting replays at the time. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On February 10 2011 10:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: let's skip the semantics and get to the facts.. its just $20 4+ hour tournament run for lower tier players to have fun... you're taking this too seriously and over analyzing every thing. even if the admins made an error... you can make more money collecting empty beer cans and pop bottles than spending 4+ hours in this event. Same Jim Raynor as the one casting I will assume. Feel free to stop casting since you find the games so boring. No one needs to hear you trash talk the players in game either. So lets skip your falsities and get back to facts. The admins unjustly DQ'ed a player and are now having to deal with the backlash. On February 10 2011 10:29 UnholyRai wrote: That isn't the point here. I thought all featured tournaments on TL.net were meant to be professionally run. I guess you're saying I'm wrong about that? Raynor would rather talk shit on stream than do a professional cast. So he would say you are wrong. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
Don’t get me wrong I don’t mean that you lose if you dont attack for a while, but playing a game where the only thing ur focused on is defending everything and have no intention of attacking ever you should get punished. He does it all the time on NA ladder too sadly enough. Beasty should have stayed cool and just let the admins decide tho. So I can completely understand this decision from the admins | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
That isn't the point here. I thought all featured tournaments on TL.net were meant to be professionally run. I guess you're saying I'm wrong about that? relative to the other streams our events are run professionally. relative to an event like the Super Bowl we are not as good. you are taking this issue too seriously... CCup has made 60 events in 6 months. judgement errors will occur with this large number of events... at this point i am still gathering info to determine if it was a bad decision or not. at the time i thought it was correct.. .but i was in the middle of doing 20 things at once. and with that said... there are 2 events per week... any player can always just join the next FREE event a few days later and try to win the Cup... very very few top players are involved.. its essentially a "for-fun" event. i think the admins at ccup have already spent too much time on this... on the tuesday event half the challenge is checking in on time.. slow check ins eliminated hundreds every tuesday | ||
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Smurphy
United States374 Posts
On February 10 2011 10:40 Jakkerr wrote: Avilo’s playstyle was rlly cheap, there should be rules in SC Esports about playing too passive. Don’t get me wrong I don’t mean that you lose if you dont attack for a while, but playing a game where the only thing ur focused on is defending everything and have no intention of attacking ever you should get punished. He does it all the time on NA ladder too sadly enough. Beasty should have stayed cool and just let the admins decide tho. So I can completely understand this decision from the admins Why should there be rules against playing defensively? What's wrong with playing defense? How could you word a rule that wasn't entirely subjective and arbitrary? Also, if you do implement such a rule you don't put it in place MID-GAME without warning. The best analogy is the shot-clock in basketball. The shot-clock in basketball was not implemented in the middle of a basketball game. My understanding of basketball is pretty low but I believe that the shot-clock has an objective way to be enforced. A team in possession has 24 seconds to hit the rim. If they don't hit the rim then there is a forced turnover. How would you make such an objective "too passive" rule in Starcraft? Every 2 minutes you need to kill a unit? That rule would be violated in many games. Also, that rule wouldn't have come into affect in the beasty-avilo game. Units were being killed. Would you make an hour time-limit on games? How would this help? The game would be a draw and the score in the avilo-beast series would then be 1-0-1 going into the third game. Is this a viable solution? How would you create and enforce a "too passive" rule. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On February 10 2011 10:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: at this point i am still gathering info to determine if it was a bad decision or not. at the time i thought it was correct.. .but i was in the middle of doing 20 things at once. You didn't have time to analyze the decision but found plenty of time to bad mouth a player multiple times. Sounds REAL professional.... | ||
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UnholyRai
720 Posts
On February 10 2011 10:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: relative to the other streams our events are run professionally. relative to an event like the Super Bowl we are not as good. you are taking this issue too seriously... CCup has made 60 events in 6 months. judgement errors will occur with this large number of events... at this point i am still gathering info to determine if it was a bad decision or not. at the time i thought it was correct.. .but i was in the middle of doing 20 things at once. and with that said... there are 2 events per week... any player can always just join the next FREE event a few days later and try to win the Cup... very very few top players are involved.. its essentially a for fun event. on the tuesday event half the challenge is checking in on time.. slow check ins eliminated hundreds every tuesday Why would Avilo ever even consider wanting to play another Craftcup after being treated like this? Do you realise how much you casters were insulting him? At one point one caster even compared him to a handicapped person who was on a youtube video they were overlaying onto the stream. I'm not talking about other streams, I'm talking about actual tournaments. I have never seen anything like this in any other featured tournament here and that's what I have the issue with. | ||
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Smurphy
United States374 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oR4Wj.jpg) | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On February 10 2011 10:26 Beastyqt wrote: Okay, since there is some drama over this i'll write my point of view. First of all, if I knew games will be 1hour 20min long each I would give him free win, because someone who's tactic is to make game as long and as boring is possible is clearly a person who wants to win really bad, probably for money because he wont get "fame" for sure with that playstyle. Difference between avilo's BM and mine is that he was BM to me in first game telling me to leave and then after the game being BM on whisper and then putting me on ignore, but ofc others couldnt see it that. Was I bm to him? yes I was, I dont think player like him should be allowed to play any tournaments. Tournaments are made to take money, practise, get "fame" and have fun (for players) and there is other side - a viewer part where they want to see a good games and maybe even learn something from them. avilo playing that game failed to achieve any of that and with his play made all this drama and made everyone's evening boring - game wise. I noticed some people said I cried and whined, I dont really look at it like that, WHOLE this thing is pretty funny for me, sure like I said I was bm to him during second game I did it to make game little bit "better" in viewer pov and to have fun myself, but again I wasnt mad and im not mad atm - like I said whole this thing is funny to me Some people said he was "in adventage" because he pushed 5 meters in game? lol I could keep pulling back for another 3 hours, I had 25k minerals and 6k gas while he had lower. He pushed at left side at which there was NOTHING valuable to destroy, there was 2 expos which were mined out and couple of rax/factory/starport which can be lifted and moved away. By doing that I could in theory play that game for another 2-3 hours. Do you really think after 1 hour 30min gave and me having 25k minerals and 6 gas he would kill me 10-20-30-60 minutes after..? Did you even watch the game and see that in 1 hour 30minutes he progressed from his gold to xel naga towers? Im not saying I had the win or that he did, all I know game wouldnt finish in 3 hours or less in game. Some of you said "calling someone lame when you are doing same build", just proves how much that person doesnt anything about starcraft. I started with normal mmm/tank/medivac play, I tried to push in on several places, I droped in his base but I cant break 1000 turrets and 100 tanks without losing game by eventually not having minerals to reproduce. If you are dealing full mech for example you cant make marines (I think thats obvious) you need to make tanks and marauders, if he makes ravens with upgrades and vikings I cant make helions, I have to make same - sounds logical enough? Think about it. Some people said I was BM when I paused game, I was talking to admins during that time and then people said I was BM for leaving and asking regame, I didnt quit and ask for regame, admins told me to leave it. For people who said "i'll never watch Craftcup again", thats just wrong. Just because 2 players had an argument and because of 2 players turning the tournament the way it was doesnt mean that every next or previous tournament was and will be like that. Craftcup will still be great. Opinions about admin decision making is different, some may think they did good or that they did bad thing. I dont mind admins DQ'ing me from event because I was BM after all and he did deserve it after whispering me and was BM while doing it even tho no one saw it Only thing I dont like about craftcup admins after this - 2 weeks ago one player was very BM to me, in game and in whisper, I contacted admin about it and I got "ok" answer and I didnt get any other reply nor' anything was done about it and now I get DQ'd for same thing that was done to me 2 weeks ago.Craftcup admins are still one of best out there, Craftcup as tournament is great as well, in my last interview I did say that my favourite tournament is Craftcup because of admins, casters and how tournament was made overall, sure they maybe made mistake but they are human after all. I got dissapointed by all admins of Craftcup with their decision about DQing me for being BM (not because it wasnt right decision but because nothing was done 2 weeks before it). After all this im pretty happy, I know Gomas he is very nice guy, he deserved to win and im not butthurt for not winning Craftcup. Some people might like me some dont, but remember its all a game and not life or death situation and you werent part of it, you are just watching - take it easy. I really wish Craftcup all best, because they are one of the best Are you really making excuse for being outplayed both games? You obviously were mad (lol) as you BM'd me for like 45 min of game 2, and game1 you would not leave the game for like 5 min after u lost it. And in game 2 we were at the point where my army composition was vastly better than what you had. More ravens, 2 ghosts, more tanks, more thors, more vikings even. Once I finally pushed up to the gold spot on your side, since you refused to attack me (ironic, since i'm the turtle), it would have been to the point where finally I could just 1a or you'd be forced to as it's where your production is and no amount of money in the bank matters when you have no buildlings left. You did cry. You did whine. You did BM. How else would one look at that lol..? And yes, you were msging admins, as you were slowly but surely losing the game. The only reason you would pause at that point + bm me is out of frustration + to try to get a re-game so you could get out of the losing situation you were in. If I'd not had any self-respect and re-gamed after beating you again, what if the hypothetical re-game went another hour, as it likely would have with me winning? It's obvious you did msg the admins with the intention of getting out of your sticky situation. You were outplayed, everyone watchin the stream saw that *honor/manner up yo* | ||
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