While the main TL:I thread will be updated with the results of the live games and have links of the stream and whatnot, this thread will have all the information about all the other games going on, including those that are broadcast.
Map Order: Ro16 - Lost Temple Ro8 - Kulas Ravine Ro4 - Blistering Sands 3rd/4th - Steppes of War Finals - Metalopolis
Loser selects the next map. Desert Oasis cannot be selected.
Bracket
Which games are being casted?
Ro16: Day[9] vs Artosis Ro8: Winners of Nony vs qxc and Machine vs Louder And all games from the Ro4 onwards.
the caster who is not chill has a rather grating voice. I would work on finding a microphone set up that smooths that voice out, or purposefully speak in a softer manner. I don't mean to hurt feelings, but some people's voice don't broadcast as well as others.
Agree with all of those except I'm notn sure about lzgamer and attero and also I think cauthon and tasteless could be interesting and not sure who to pick. I think I'd have to go tasteless unless he gets a lot of tvt.
rofl @ picking Inc only because you haven't heard of slush (don't pay much attention to SC2 tournies then). Incontrol vs slush definitely will be close but I have to pick Slush.
Machine QXC Artosis Slush Inka Huk Cauthon LzGamer
On May 09 2010 03:44 Nouar wrote: I'm starting to hate Ustream, it's buffering every fucking TWO seconds. Unwatchable.
Same here. Except I didn't like ustream before, I still don't like it now. Refreshed, restarted browser, nothing works.
Mine does the same thing, but ONLY on certain ustreams. DJ Wheat is thankfully perfect for me, but GLHF.tv and Day[9]'s new ustream account both do the constant buffer, making their streams sadly unwatchable. I feel your pain on this one.
On May 09 2010 03:49 condoriano wrote: if Orbtl on ustream is orb hes spoiling his results vs Huk right now
got a screenshot there, if what he said is true he needs to get punished
Eh? It's okay to spoil results for this AFAIK. It's not like HDH where they're trying to cast every single game via replays. Everyone will be spoiled on first round results when they start casting next round anyway.
Day[9] did a zealot pressure build, and Artosis pretty much lost due to hatching a round of drones instead of lings. From there on he just couldn't catch up.
On May 09 2010 03:49 condoriano wrote: if Orbtl on ustream is orb hes spoiling his results vs Huk right now
got a screenshot there, if what he said is true he needs to get punished
Eh? It's okay to spoil results for this AFAIK. It's not like HDH where they're trying to cast every single game via replays. Everyone will be spoiled on first round results when they start casting next round anyway.
yeah it's okay i figured everyone spoils so this must be normal, my fault
On May 09 2010 03:46 ReketSomething wrote: O man, Nony vs. Qxc 1-1 O_O
wait why is everyone spoiling the results, am i missing something? Is this not going to get casted?
closing this thread atm, cant be spoiled
How about you read the OP before you start whining.
Ref: While the main TL:I thread will be updated with the results of the live games and have links of the stream and whatnot, this thread will have all the information about all the other games going on, including those that are broadcast.
On May 09 2010 03:46 ReketSomething wrote: O man, Nony vs. Qxc 1-1 O_O
wait why is everyone spoiling the results, am i missing something? Is this not going to get casted?
closing this thread atm, cant be spoiled
How about you read the OP before you start whining.
Whining? Choose your wording child.. why do you have to be offensive lol. I take it spoiler is there for a reason? so you don't automatically see the results when you're browsing live thread trying to discuss live games?
I expected the reply to be in spoliers, so no one gets mad over it, and it was done in such a manner, and even the first post says it's ok to talk about going stream. Sorry if I messed the game for someone, but really wanted to know what happened in g2, as I watched g1, and am watching g3 now
Game 2: Day9 2gates on steppes of war, artosis tries to defend with just speedlings + 1 spine crawler. Day9 pulls back from initial push and saves till 7 or so zealots at Artosis' ramp. Artosis starts to drone for some reason, thinking his 12? zerglings, queen, and spine crawler would hold. Day9 pushes and devastates the zerg army - kills queen, drops Artosis to 14 drones while Day9 expands. From there, it's sort of your standard macro game, but Artosis is so far behind that his econ never catches up (although he put up a hell of a fight with his army). Day9 takes third, denies Artosis 3rd twice, and Artosis gg's.
Oh and Artosis said something about a paged pool error potentially causing him to DC. Not sure what that was about.
Machine 1-2 Louder Louder over machine seems like a surprise just because Louder has been behind the scenes a bit more but given the lack of practice by Machine it seems possible.
Nony 1-2 qxc QXC winning is pretty expected given how good he has done in all the tournaments so far.
huk 2-1 orb HuK dropping a game to Orb is the biggest surprise so far.
LZ > Attero pretty easy to predict, I think random is a definite disadvantage at this point in the game, unless you have sick talent like a Testie Also LzGamer if he focuses more heavily on improving his sc2 mechanics will be a beast. ATM I think he has a lot of strengths in strategies but still has some work to do in raw Mechanical skill.
Slush 2-0 Incontrol Slush > Incontrol, both really good players but Slush is just a beast. Was funny to see people in another thread say "I've never heard of Slush so definitely have to pick incontrol". Well now you know who he is
inka 2-1 PainUser Inka over painuser, pretty expected given how dominate Inka can be at times, he is definitely a notch above painuser. Still good work by painuser taking a game against Inka
Nony makes me sad, Qxc is to be feared - definitely thought this would be close. Louder over Machine was a bit surprising. Inka expected. Huk expected. LZ expected.
Now we have a bunch of mirrors, sigh. TvT, ZvZ, PvP, TvT
On May 09 2010 04:21 Hold-Lurker wrote: Nony makes me sad, Qxc is to be feared - definitely thought this would be close. Louder over Machine was a bit surprising. Inka expected. Huk expected. LZ expected.
Now we have a bunch of mirrors, sigh. TvT, ZvZ, PvP, TvT
Mirror free semifinals!! TvZ and TvP - should be good
On May 09 2010 04:22 Spike wrote: greggsauce's predictions have been pretty good? lol... if only he went LZ > Attero.
only real surprise though is that louder won though but maybe that's because he's behind the scenes much more as someone said.
Yeah I'm definitely surprised about that. Not saying Louder couldn't do it, but I've been watching Machine's impressive play in the Triple Strikes, getting what I consider MUCH better since him and IdrA battling it out in the HelloGoodbye. Like I was SURE he'd be in tip top shape to even win the tournament to be honest.
Louder vs QXC Artosis vs Slush Inka vs Huk Cauthon vs Lzgamer
My RO8 Predictions
Louder vs QXC QXC is just a beast.
Artosis vs Slush Slush ZvZ is really strong, I think Artosis will get owned Also delay in ZvZ factors heavily in this prediction
Inka vs Huk HuK just played a PvP, and has pretty good PvP instincts. Also PvP favors HuK's skills the most of any match up imo. Cauthonluck vs Lzgamer this might be the worst match up LzGamer could have, I think cauthonluck should win this one.
On May 09 2010 04:30 dacthehork wrote: blank RO8 Predictions
Louder vs QXC Artosis vs Slush Inka vs Huk Cauthon vs Lzgamer
My RO8 Predictions
Louder vs QXC QXC is just a beast.
Artosis vs Slush Slush ZvZ is really strong, I think Artosis will get owned Also delay in ZvZ factors heavily in this prediction
Inka vs Huk HuK just played a PvP, and has pretty good PvP instincts. Also PvP favors HuK's skills the most of any match up imo. Cauthonluck vs Lzgamer this might be the worst match up LzGamer could have, I think cauthonluck should win this one.
On May 09 2010 04:36 University wrote: It's so depressing to see Artosis win. He is just impossible to cheer for. BM and boring make for an awful combination haha.
good play, but just so depressing.
Too bad he's a better player? Artosis is awesome, hope he wins the whole thing (might be hard getting past that zvz series)
On May 09 2010 04:36 University wrote: It's so depressing to see Artosis win. He is just impossible to cheer for. BM and boring make for an awful combination haha.
good play, but just so depressing.
what the hell you talking about. Artosis worked so hard and his win was well deserved
So what games are being casted today then? I dont see an updated bracket i just see all the game sitll in the round of 8, anywhere i can go to see the updated bracket?
On May 09 2010 04:36 University wrote: It's so depressing to see Artosis win. He is just impossible to cheer for. BM and boring make for an awful combination haha.
good play, but just so depressing.
Too bad he's a better player? Artosis is awesome, hope he wins the whole thing (might be hard getting past that zvz series)
No man I didn't deny that he is the better player. It is just tough for me to see someone win who is not as good-spirited as competitive sports requires. Of course he was the better player today because he won. I just said it is tough to cheer for him haha.
It's just like in any other sport. You don't want to see the guy win in baseball who throws his bat when he loses. Well, some people do I suppose haha, and they keep Idra, Artosis, and Firebathero in business. Good games though and Artosis played really well, undeniably.
On May 09 2010 05:06 Hold-Lurker wrote: Holy shit Louder. TL organizers knew something the rest of us didn't?
Louder has always been underestimated on TL. Not just in SC2 but also in BW.
Nobody seems to remember when he got 3rd place in WCG USA 2008 and 2nd place in WCG USA 2009. Louder is an absolute beast when it counts, ESPECIALLY at LAN events.
Dude how can anyone hate on Artosis!? His openings were pretty creative AND really solid. He abused me just right in the games I was playing Terran. Artosis ftw imo
That said, I do temporarily hate him for that roach unburrow in game 3 though.
On May 09 2010 05:08 condoriano wrote: if he has air control he has to make banshees, I'm not sure what good does vikings do without banshee vs ground
I feel like you only want more vikings than your opponent so your tanks have vision, but if you only want one or two more vikings. If you make too many vikings and your opponent goes full ground with you army stuck on just one or two tanks you're gonna get ran over.
On May 09 2010 05:10 Beyonder wrote: Im loving the fact that wheat is casting this. His voice is so pleasant and I'm a hidden fan since the Q3 days :D
I am not sure if pleasant is the best way to describe it. I love listening to his casts when I am really tired and just like to chill as his voice just penetrates into my consciousness anyway. And besides, it clearly shows he's an experienced radio host, and the quality equipment helps.
On May 09 2010 05:10 Day[9] wrote: Dude how can anyone hate on Artosis!? His openings were pretty creative AND really solid. He abused me just right in the games I was playing Terran. Artosis ftw imo
That said, I do temporarily hate him for that roach unburrow in game 3 though.
The anticipation of him moving those burrowed roaches up to your tanks....
Guess T's are gonna have to start keeping a Raven on hand.
On May 09 2010 05:10 Day[9] wrote: Dude how can anyone hate on Artosis!? His openings were pretty creative AND really solid. He abused me just right in the games I was playing Terran. Artosis ftw imo
That said, I do temporarily hate him for that roach unburrow in game 3 though.
Because of his failure to live up to comments like this that set the standard for friendly, good-natured play and give credit where it is due haha.
GG to both players. Of course Artosis played incredibly well and deserved the win. His macro is definitely incredible.
On May 09 2010 05:10 Day[9] wrote: Dude how can anyone hate on Artosis!? His openings were pretty creative AND really solid. He abused me just right in the games I was playing Terran. Artosis ftw imo
That said, I do temporarily hate him for that roach unburrow in game 3 though.
The anticipation of him moving those burrowed roaches up to your tanks....
Guess T's are gonna have to start keeping a Raven on hand.
Day9 played great games, not even considering how little time he's had to practice. Great, great micro with the only exception I can remember being losing quite a few vikings in game 3.
On May 09 2010 05:17 Jyvblamo wrote: Lol, I don't know what to make of Slush. He seems to be playing well today, but that showmatch game vs Incontrol on blistering sands...
lol
Slush isn't just good today, have you been paying attention to ANY sc2 tourney results? He has done much better in SC2 so far than many "well known" players. I'm sure you where surprised too when the much more known Orb lost to huk huh?
CauthonLuck beat TLO 4-0 in the showmatch but then got 0-2'd by him in HDH, so while I believe Slush is a very good player, I don't think show matches are necessarily representative.
There's no reason to go bio to support tanks currently, all day needed really are hellions and thors and ravens, roll slow around the map with turrets here and there, burrowed roaches don't do anything vs that and hydra heavy builds in general always lose to tanks/hellions.
On May 09 2010 05:17 Jyvblamo wrote: Lol, I don't know what to make of Slush. He seems to be playing well today, but that showmatch game vs Incontrol on blistering sands...
lol
Slush isn't just good today, have you been paying attention to ANY sc2 tourney results? He has done much better in SC2 so far than many "well known" players. I'm sure you where surprised too when the much more known Orb lost to huk huh?
I was joking about Slush. I know about his results in Triple stirke, etc. And I was surprised that Orb somehow keeps getting invited to these tourneys despite having almost no tournament results at all.
CauthonLuck beat TLO 4-0 in the showmatch but then got 0-2'd by him in HDH, so while I believe Slush is a very good player, I don't think show matches are necessarily representative.
On May 09 2010 05:11 Fayth wrote: slush is a better player than artosis....
why does everybody think artosis is that good? has he shown any good results in tournaments? Slush has fared way better no?
Sadly, it's just how the esports community is. If you beat a famous player, your victory is never legit. There are always excuses as to why you won and they lost. The word upset apparently doesn't mean anything.
On May 09 2010 04:15 dacthehork wrote: huk 2-1 orb HuK dropping a game to Orb is the biggest surprise so far.
I don't know why you think i'm so terrible.
If you watch the replays the game I won is the only game where we both played standard. If someone beats someone else and they both play straight up it's usually a sign that the winner is the better player. Obviously this isn't globally true and is not necessarily the case but even if you still think he's the better player he can't be that far above me if I beat him when we both played completely straight up.
On May 09 2010 04:15 dacthehork wrote: huk 2-1 orb HuK dropping a game to Orb is the biggest surprise so far.
I don't know why you think i'm so terrible.
If you watch the replays the game I won is the only game where we both played standard. If someone beats someone else and they both play straight up it's usually a sign that the winner is the better player.
On May 09 2010 04:15 dacthehork wrote: huk 2-1 orb HuK dropping a game to Orb is the biggest surprise so far.
I don't know why you think i'm so terrible.
If you watch the replays the game I won is the only game where we both played standard. If someone beats someone else and they both play straight up it's usually a sign that the winner is the better player.
On May 09 2010 04:15 dacthehork wrote: huk 2-1 orb HuK dropping a game to Orb is the biggest surprise so far.
I don't know why you think i'm so terrible.
If you watch the replays the game I won is the only game where we both played standard. If someone beats someone else and they both play straight up it's usually a sign that the winner is the better player.
you really should stop feeding the trolls orb.
Yeah man just let them chill.
OMG! That was so good!!!!!!
Also it's really funny to see people eat their words about Louder
On May 09 2010 04:15 dacthehork wrote: huk 2-1 orb HuK dropping a game to Orb is the biggest surprise so far.
I don't know why you think i'm so terrible.
If you watch the replays the game I won is the only game where we both played standard. If someone beats someone else and they both play straight up it's usually a sign that the winner is the better player.
you really should stop feeding the trolls orb.
He's a tournament admin, not your average troll.
But then random korean already showed us that you don't have to be mature or have any level of professionalism to run a tournament so I guess you're right
Well to be fair, I haven't seen Louder do any thing impressive before this tournament. He hasn't done Craftcup, ESL, Zotac, ITL, MLG (barring first week or two) AFAIK. His wins in the TL vs EG Clan War were vs Drone (who tried to proxy Ghost Academy in TvT, and then died to a reaper rush in PvT) so not incredibly impressive. Then he comes out of nowhere and beats Machine (omg) and Qxc (wowow, in a TvT nonetheless) in two Bo3's. Really, really impressive.
On May 09 2010 05:17 Xxio wrote: I can remember being losing quite a few vikings in game 3.
ERRR UHHH NO SUCH THING HAPPENED!
lol I think he is talking about the metalopolis game where you had 4 vikings by the middle left Xel'Naga Tower. Artosis moved in and sniped 2. Definitely not a huge swing but it was a slight micro/minimap watching mistake.
Also ro4 Predictions
Louder vs Slush Cauthonluck vs Huk
Also orb you are a good player and have done decently good at points but just from what I've seen there are players on a different level.
On May 09 2010 05:17 Xxio wrote: I can remember being losing quite a few vikings in game 3.
ERRR UHHH NO SUCH THING HAPPENED!
lol I think he is talking about the metalopolis game where you had 4 vikings by the middle left Xel'Naga Tower. Artosis moved in and sniped 2. Definitely not a huge swing but it was a slight micro/minimap watching mistake.
That "ss/vid or it didnt happen" saying that spread around the internet is kind of biting you in the ass right now, since there is a vid of it happening :D
That "ss/vid or it didnt happen" saying that spread around the internet is kind of biting you in the ass right now, since there is a vid of it happening :D
On May 09 2010 04:15 dacthehork wrote: huk 2-1 orb HuK dropping a game to Orb is the biggest surprise so far.
I don't know why you think i'm so terrible.
If you watch the replays the game I won is the only game where we both played standard. If someone beats someone else and they both play straight up it's usually a sign that the winner is the better player. Obviously this isn't globally true and is not necessarily the case but even if you still think he's the better player he can't be that far above me if I beat him when we both played completely straight up.
Well given Huk's won, placed in the finals, or semi finals in like the last 4 of 4 CraftCup tourneys he's played - done amazing in Triple Strike, ITL, and other showmatches - I don't think it's much of a troll move to think that he'd be favored over you.
Also, straight-up play in PvP is kind of hard to define: do you mean both of you tried to go gate robo gate into colossus? I think you could argue 4 warpgate zealot/sentry play into infinite ff/expo, immortal/warpgate push, Nony phoenix play, or blink stalkers as all viable "standard" play openings, but there are definite counters BOs there.
I can't wait for replays, please don't make us wait too long Kennigit!
I wouldn't mind if it was a 4 hour delay as long as the filler time was always this hilarious. Day9 Wheat and chill are great together at burning time.
You were talking about bnet 2.0 and how you had to set up an IRC channel for everyone to set up games together, I don't think that's true.
If you open any green chat window (besides party chat I think) and click the arrow on the right side of the box, you can invite anyone in your flist to a chat (I think this includes people you merely SC2 friended, not just real ID friends). Anyone can do this, not just the chat "leader." So any players who know the other player can invite them and you can all chat together in a "conversation" (in game use tab to get to that channel).
I agree that it's annoying to not be able to /join <Channel Name> (at least I don't know how to), which they really need to add, but you can have easy mass conversations in the chat interface (and all you have to do to get in is be invited by anyone already in the chat, not just the "mod" or leader).
Right, i think HuK played badly against cauthon on blistering, was roughly 4 or so voidrays that died when they shouldn't, and an uncancelled nexus :S.
I think with better control it could of been a totally different outcome.
On May 09 2010 06:01 Chen wrote: =.= if huk micro'd his void rays at all he would have around a ball of 7 that could do something =.= instead he has like 2/3 vs 10 marines
are you saying he didn't micro his void rays at all..... cuz I saw something different
are you saying he didn't micro his void rays at all..... cuz I saw something different
I think Cauthon's quick quick stim caught Huk off guard and dropped the first void attack really quickly without it doing much dmg, from there Huk was in a bad situation.
Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconnected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
UPDATE: Artosis decided to play the game after all.
Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
As unfortunate as this is, props to tourney admins to sticking to their guns and having their word be final, not the players.
On May 09 2010 06:08 Plexa wrote: Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
I'm going to reserve judgment until I see the actual replay.
On May 09 2010 06:08 Plexa wrote: Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
Sigh.. so silly.. just take the rematch Artosis.. if you're the better player you'll win.
Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
As unfortunate as this is, props to tourney admins to sticking to their guns and having their word be final, not the players.
The presumption has to be for giving regame, unless one guy has very little chance of a comeback. You can't just give one guy a win because he had an advantage. How many crazy back and forths have we seen already?
Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
As unfortunate as this is, props to tourney admins to sticking to their guns and having their word be final, not the players.
Seconded. Good call..
such disappointing behavior from one of the top SC2 players in the world.
If you disc and your opponent has as much as a 1% chance it's a regame. It's you who discs and who's at fault plenty of systems give you a loss for that. If the rule would be any different it would allow people to gain advantages and disconnect after with no chance of a comeback for their opponents.
On May 09 2010 06:08 Plexa wrote: Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
Thank god mods didn't bend to e-fame and enforced the rules evenly
Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
As unfortunate as this is, props to tourney admins to sticking to their guns and having their word be final, not the players.
I totally agree with this.
Yeah, I've seen the rep and thought Artosis had it but given he disconnected a regame is a legitimate decision. With that in mind Artosis' whining is unacceptable.
On May 09 2010 06:08 Plexa wrote: Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
Lmao Artosis is like an inadequate clone of Idra. Similar but worse style of play, and bad bad manners. Honestly, who disconnects and then claims victory...
In other news, I'm loving Huk v. Cauthon right now. Hoping for Huk to come back for at least a game 3!
Edit: No... Huk!!! I'll be rooting for you in 3/4 decider.
On May 09 2010 06:08 Plexa wrote: Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
Thank god mods didn't bend to e-fame and enforced the rules evenly
In Artosis' defense, it's past 5 am in Korea atm. Having to replay a game he thinks was won when he's already been up all night must've been hard to take. Still disappointing though.
On May 09 2010 06:08 Plexa wrote: Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
Lmao Artosis is like an inadequate clone of Idra. Similar but worse style of play, and bad bad manners. Honestly, who disconnects and then claims victory... epic fail
If you watch the rep you can see why he'd claim it. Slush lost a big battle and three of his five bases. He was down to a single mining base and Artosis' army was at it. Slush's army was largely 1-0 mutalisks while Artosis had a fair number of 3-2 hydralisks attacking it. It wasn't like he didn't have a case. In my opinion the key problem is that he disconnected rather than a neutral disconnect.
Gotta feel bad for Artosis, given the ungodly hour in his timezone, combined with the unfortunate technical problems that seemed to be plaguing him in this tourney.
On May 09 2010 06:13 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: If you disc and your opponent has as much as a 1% chance it's a regame. It's you who discs and who's at fault plenty of systems give you a loss for that. If the rule would be any different it would allow people to gain advantages and disconnect after with no chance of a comeback for their opponents.
Right, completely agree with you although obviously it is frustrating, i've had games for example where i've been 50 food vs 80+ with 1 base vs 3 and won, i mean it's not clear cut. I also believe that it depends alot actually on who discs - if i'm REALLY far ahead, and my oppo discs - i'm likely as an admin to be less likely to regame it, rather than the guy in the lead discing. This has happened at several tournaments before, and 1 particular moment i remember was Grubby vs Zeus at ESWC 2006 for wc3, grubby had the advantage the PC's crashed, admins declared regame as it wasn't over - grubby got so angry and almost walked out. In General i think if you play a straight up macro vs macro game and your winning you should take the regame to just again proove that you are indeed better and more consistent, and technically "win again".
Although after saying all that - i'd like to see the game just so i could actually see what went on, badluck for Artosis.
Edit: wrote this before i found out they regamed - thought he got DQ'd.
On May 09 2010 06:08 Plexa wrote: Artosis has been disqualified since he has failed to cooperate with the referees. We appreciate that he had an advantage in the game but we felt that Slush did have a legitimate chance to stage a comeback. Since Artosis was at fault in the game (he disconntected), we decided a regame was in order. This decision was made in accordance withe regulations we outlined for TSL.
It is unfortunate that Artosis had to act the way he did, but we wish him all the best for the future and we are sorely disappointed he had to be eliminated this way.
Lmao Artosis is like an inadequate clone of Idra. Similar but worse style of play, and bad bad manners. Honestly, who disconnects and then claims victory... epic fail
If you watch the rep you can see why he'd claim it. Slush lost a big battle and three of his five bases. He was down to a single mining base and Artosis' army was at it. Slush's army was largely 1-0 mutalisks while Artosis had a fair number of 3-2 hydralisks attacking it. It wasn't like he didn't have a case. In my opinion the key problem is that he disconnected rather than a neutral disconnect.
Wow... that really sucks for Artosis... that's like 99.9999% won. I don't know any player who wouldn't be really pissed off that they had to regame.
On May 09 2010 06:16 KwarK wrote: Lmao Artosis is like an inadequate clone of Idra. Similar but worse style of play, and bad bad manners. Honestly, who disconnects and then claims victory... epic fail
If you watch the rep you can see why he'd claim it. Slush lost a big battle and three of his five bases. He was down to a single mining base and Artosis' army was at it. Slush's army was largely 1-0 mutalisks while Artosis had a fair number of 3-2 hydralisks attacking it. It wasn't like he didn't have a case. In my opinion the key problem is that he disconnected rather than a neutral disconnect.
LOL
I agree with the admin decision, but this says a lot about slush, he could have just accepted the loss since he had a chance to watch replay. Props to artosis for regaming, admins did what they had to do, slush is someone i will always cheer against from now on lol
edit: and he 9 pools the regame, damn. Feel bad for Dan, 5 am and he has to deal with this.
Unfortunate. Not picking sides; just an unfortunate situation. Technical problems have no winners.
As a random story; the worst technical error that comes to mind was in MLG (Halo3) last year. The favorites to win the tournament were literally 1-2 second away from winning a series and advancing to the Semi finals (maybe finals) when the xbox crashed. MLG rules stated that regardless of score/situation it is always a regame. The team that was 1 second away from winning then lost the next 2 games and then lost in the losers bracket to be eliminated from the tournament.
On May 09 2010 06:16 KwarK wrote: Lmao Artosis is like an inadequate clone of Idra. Similar but worse style of play, and bad bad manners. Honestly, who disconnects and then claims victory... epic fail
If you watch the rep you can see why he'd claim it. Slush lost a big battle and three of his five bases. He was down to a single mining base and Artosis' army was at it. Slush's army was largely 1-0 mutalisks while Artosis had a fair number of 3-2 hydralisks attacking it. It wasn't like he didn't have a case. In my opinion the key problem is that he disconnected rather than a neutral disconnect.
LOL
I agree with the admin decision, but this says a lot about slush, he could have just accepted the loss since he had a chance to watch replay. Props to artosis for regaming, admins did what they had to do, slush is someone i will always cheer against from now on lol
Artosis deserves no props. He delayed the tournament for a long time by arguing with the refs. Refs spent a long time watching the rep and debating, it's not like they didn't consider his case. You can't argue with the refs and he ignored ultimatums and got himself disqualified. It was only after he was disqualified by Plexa he realised he wasn't going to win this argument and gave in. It sucks for Artosis but ref decisions must be respected.
On May 09 2010 06:13 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: If you disc and your opponent has as much as a 1% chance it's a regame. It's you who discs and who's at fault plenty of systems give you a loss for that. If the rule would be any different it would allow people to gain advantages and disconnect after with no chance of a comeback for their opponents.
Right, completely agree with you although obviously it is frustrating, i've had games for example where i've been 50 food vs 80+ with 1 base vs 3 and won, i mean it's not clear cut. I also believe that it depends alot actually on who discs - if i'm REALLY far ahead, and my oppo discs - i'm likely as an admin to be less likely to regame it, rather than the guy in the lead discing. This has happened at several tournaments before, and 1 particular moment i remember was Grubby vs Zeus at ESWC 2006 for wc3, grubby had the advantage the PC's crashed, admins declared regame as it wasn't over - grubby got so angry and almost walked out. In General i think if you play a straight up macro vs macro game and your winning you should take the regame to just again proove that you are indeed better and more consistent, and technically "win again".
Although after saying all that - i'd like to see the game just so i could actually see what went on, badluck for Artosis.
Edit: wrote this before i found out they regamed - thought he got DQ'd.
That game on metalopis a while back vs dimaga 1 base vs 3 base most people would call it game over for example.
Right, which was the point i was trying to make, if i got Defwinned against if i disced at that point, i woulda been pissed - so i can see it from Slush's position too.
On May 09 2010 06:25 KwarK wrote: Artosis deserves no props. He delayed the tournament for a long time by arguing with the refs. Refs spent a long time watching the rep and debating, it's not like they didn't consider his case. You can't argue with the refs and he ignored ultimatums and got himself disqualified. It was only after he was disqualified by Plexa he realised he wasn't going to win this argument and gave in. It sucks for Artosis but ref decisions must be respected.
If what you described was correct I would just walk away without regaming, because playing someone low enough to not agree to take a loss and then getting cheesed is no fun.
Refs could be right, still I understand how Artosis feels. I'm giving him props for regaming, nothing will change here. You didn't have the best reputation as a player either, "artosis deserves no props" means nothing.
Key problem for me is slush not accepting a loss where he knows better as a player that he lost fair and square. Admins had to take his side because of the disconnect, but that doesn't make him less of a villain.
OF COURSE if the guy who disconnects had an advantage, he won't be given a freewin it's *always* a regame... If it's the guy losing who disconnets, then you might talk about defwin... I don't get why there's whining going on...
it was a fault of his own, how can he not accept a rematch? It's not like they will give artosis the win simply because he was "ahead" if Slush disconnected... fair enough but artosis did.
On May 09 2010 06:25 KwarK wrote: Artosis deserves no props. He delayed the tournament for a long time by arguing with the refs. Refs spent a long time watching the rep and debating, it's not like they didn't consider his case. You can't argue with the refs and he ignored ultimatums and got himself disqualified. It was only after he was disqualified by Plexa he realised he wasn't going to win this argument and gave in. It sucks for Artosis but ref decisions must be respected.
If what you described was correct I would just walk away without regaming, because playing someone low enough to not agree to take a loss and then getting cheesed is no fun.
Refs could be right, still I understand how Artosis feels. I'm giving him props for regaming, nothing will change here. You didn't have the best reputation as a player either, "artosis deserves no props" means nothing.
Key problem for me is slush not accepting a loss where he knows better as a player that he lost fair and square. Admins had to take his side because of the disconnect, but that doesn't make him less of a villain.
Yep well done for replaying after he had been told he'd be DQ'ed? You only accept you lose when you gg or disconnect, surely that's how it's always been? (Rhetorical question of course)
Artosis was in huge advantage..its very frustrating to rematch even if you DC...i think Slush here was BM and didnt recognize his defeat. On the other side Cauthonluck is playing such a solid terran very entertaining
On May 09 2010 06:16 KwarK wrote: Lmao Artosis is like an inadequate clone of Idra. Similar but worse style of play, and bad bad manners. Honestly, who disconnects and then claims victory... epic fail
If you watch the rep you can see why he'd claim it. Slush lost a big battle and three of his five bases. He was down to a single mining base and Artosis' army was at it. Slush's army was largely 1-0 mutalisks while Artosis had a fair number of 3-2 hydralisks attacking it. It wasn't like he didn't have a case. In my opinion the key problem is that he disconnected rather than a neutral disconnect.
LOL
I agree with the admin decision, but this says a lot about slush, he could have just accepted the loss since he had a chance to watch replay. Props to artosis for regaming, admins did what they had to do, slush is someone i will always cheer against from now on lol
edit: and he 9 pools the regame, damn. Feel bad for Dan, 5 am and he has to deal with this.
I think Artosis whining is completely justified. That doesn't mean the admins didn't make the right call. Sometimes there simply isn't a fair solution. Random people attacking Artosis for this is really dumb though. Imagine yourself in his shoes, you'd be tilting so bad. I hope people will at least give him the credit of being a very good player, as I think he certainly proved it today (if he hadn't in the past).
This kind of reminds me of the OSL power outage in a way... where they def winned to JD when the result seemed nowhere near as clear cut as this case. But in that case, it was neither of the player's fault. Either way this is a shitty situation in general.
On May 09 2010 06:15 Orome wrote: In Artosis' defense, it's past 5 am in Korea atm. Having to replay a game he thinks was won when he's already been up all night must've been hard to take. Still disappointing though.
Uh he knew when the tournament would be, he should have just slept all day to prepare for it and switched up his schedule for a day.
On May 09 2010 06:48 Jyvblamo wrote: Spore crawlers are awful.
Yeah this is one of the worst things that needs to be changed, they are completely broken.
On May 09 2010 06:48 PanzerDragoon wrote: Uh he knew when the tournament would be, he should have just slept all day to prepare for it and switched up his schedule for a day.
On May 09 2010 06:15 Orome wrote: In Artosis' defense, it's past 5 am in Korea atm. Having to replay a game he thinks was won when he's already been up all night must've been hard to take. Still disappointing though.
Uh he knew when the tournament would be, he should have just slept all day to prepare for it and switched up his schedule for a day.
Dude, do you know how hard it is to actually change back to normal routine after you fuck it up just for one day? But you are right that he knew when this would be, so..
The real victim in the Artosis vs Slush game is the viewer. 22 minutes in and only 10 units lost per player. I didn't know the tournament was no rush 20 min.
i think im going to take a break from most sc2 events until i get a 1/2 decent computer (dont want to be rude and make excuses but my cpu is utter shit)
If you watch the replay you can clearly see that Artosis is going to win, there is seriously no way Slush could come back from that unless artosis just donated his entire army to slush. Artosis was about to kill slush's only mining base, slush had like 3k minerals and a few hundred gas, after he lost that mining base he would only be mining gas from his main, which would almost be mined out. On artosis' side of the field, he had 2 bases mining 1 of them was gold, plus he had expansions set up at another main and nat ready to get mining at any time. Artosis' army completely countered what Slush had (hydras/corruptors vs mutas) So not only would slush have lost his entire army, but he would have almost no gas to build anything to take on artosis' army. All he could do is build lings (from 1 hatch? lulz) and maybe a couple roaches, but that's it.
This win was 99.99999% for artosis, for TL to say rematch on this is stupid. Remember the huge power outage issue? Remember how there was all this discussion but most high level players agreed that kespa made the right decision by giving jaedong the win and not making them replay? Same thing here, Artosis was in more of a lead vs Slush than Jaedong was vs Flash.
On May 09 2010 06:53 HuK wrote: sorry all to disappoint
i think im going to take a break from most sc2 events until i get a 1/2 decent computer (dont want to be rude and make excuses but my cpu is utter shit)
gg wp
wlu huk, thanks for the great games(from other tournaments) and i hope you come back to the tournament scene soon ^_^.
On May 09 2010 06:53 HuK wrote: sorry all to disappoint
i think im going to take a break from most sc2 events until i get a 1/2 decent computer (dont want to be rude and make excuses but my cpu is utter shit)
gg wp
Don't run away just yet! You still have a shot in the 3rd/4th playoff
On May 09 2010 06:13 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: If you disc and your opponent has as much as a 1% chance it's a regame. It's you who discs and who's at fault plenty of systems give you a loss for that. If the rule would be any different it would allow people to gain advantages and disconnect after with no chance of a comeback for their opponents.
Right, completely agree with you although obviously it is frustrating, i've had games for example where i've been 50 food vs 80+ with 1 base vs 3 and won, i mean it's not clear cut. I also believe that it depends alot actually on who discs - if i'm REALLY far ahead, and my oppo discs - i'm likely as an admin to be less likely to regame it, rather than the guy in the lead discing. This has happened at several tournaments before, and 1 particular moment i remember was Grubby vs Zeus at ESWC 2006 for wc3, grubby had the advantage the PC's crashed, admins declared regame as it wasn't over - grubby got so angry and almost walked out. In General i think if you play a straight up macro vs macro game and your winning you should take the regame to just again proove that you are indeed better and more consistent, and technically "win again".
Although after saying all that - i'd like to see the game just so i could actually see what went on, badluck for Artosis.
Edit: wrote this before i found out they regamed - thought he got DQ'd.
That game on metalopis a while back vs dimaga 1 base vs 3 base most people would call it game over for example.
Watch the replay... these two situations are nothing alike.
On May 09 2010 06:54 aikepah wrote: If you watch the replay you can clearly see that Artosis is going to win, there is seriously no way Slush could come back from that unless artosis just donated his entire army to slush. Artosis was about to kill slush's only mining base, slush had like 3k minerals and a few hundred gas, after he lost that mining base he would only be mining gas from his main, which would almost be mined out. On artosis' side of the field, he had 2 bases mining 1 of them was gold, plus he had expansions set up at another main and nat ready to get mining at any time. Artosis' army completely countered what Slush had (hydras/corruptors vs mutas) So not only would slush have lost his entire army, but he would have almost no gas to build anything to take on artosis' army. All he could do is build lings (from 1 hatch? lulz) and maybe a couple roaches, but that's it.
This win was 99.99999% for artosis, for TL to say rematch on this is stupid. Remember the huge power outage issue? Remember how there was all this discussion but most high level players agreed that kespa made the right decision by giving jaedong the win and not making them replay? Same thing here, Artosis was in more of a lead vs Slush than Jaedong was vs Flash.
Power outage was a neutral disconnect, not JD's fault. Artosis disconnect wasn't.
There is a thread that can discuss the artosis vs slush game that will be re-opened after the tournament is over. It would be best to discuss it over there. In the meantime, I'm really enjoying louders play vs slush. He is really aggressive and dishing out some serious pain.
On May 09 2010 06:54 aikepah wrote: If you watch the replay you can clearly see that Artosis is going to win, there is seriously no way Slush could come back from that unless artosis just donated his entire army to slush. Artosis was about to kill slush's only mining base, slush had like 3k minerals and a few hundred gas, after he lost that mining base he would only be mining gas from his main, which would almost be mined out. On artosis' side of the field, he had 2 bases mining 1 of them was gold, plus he had expansions set up at another main and nat ready to get mining at any time. Artosis' army completely countered what Slush had (hydras/corruptors vs mutas) So not only would slush have lost his entire army, but he would have almost no gas to build anything to take on artosis' army. All he could do is build lings (from 1 hatch? lulz) and maybe a couple roaches, but that's it.
This win was 99.99999% for artosis, for TL to say rematch on this is stupid. Remember the huge power outage issue? Remember how there was all this discussion but most high level players agreed that kespa made the right decision by giving jaedong the win and not making them replay? Same thing here, Artosis was in more of a lead vs Slush than Jaedong was vs Flash.
Power outage was a neutral disconnect, not JD's fault. Artosis disconnect wasn't.
Can't invite a player in Korea to a tourney then blame it on him for a disconnect. You are a respected member of this forum, so I'll refrain from expressing how I feel towards you atm (hate situations like this and BM from the loser [slush] just sends it over the top). Your posts make no sense, this game (I watched the replay) was over and done, literally Artosis could a-move his DRONES and win it. Complete crap from TL. I swear I just made a post about how I loved TL for how civil this place usually is, and to see BM from Slush in an INVITE only tourney is ridiculous
question, can Louder see the silhouettes of the moving burrowed Roaches, like cloaked ghosts in SC1 could still be identified by the shimmer in the air, or does he have no idea?
I'll chime in a bit on the Artosis/Slush decision once we have an official statement since I was the ref overseeing it. Suffice it to say, Kwark's statements have been pretty spot-on giving what the rationale was behind the decision. Situations like this are terrible for everyone involved, but a decision needs to made - we have to keep the tournament moving. Regardless of which way a decision goes, there are going to be some people (namely one of the two players) that are unhappy. Please keep in mind that our goal is to maintain the fairest environment in the name of competition that we can for all players.
Again, I'll add more once we get some information together. I also want to encourage everyone to not hold it against Slush - He felt as if had a legitimate chance, and left it in our hands. This was an Admin decision, not his.
@Kurr, Thanks, I hadn't seen that. I don't see them in my games, and I would have assumed other players don't either. For instance, Louder's actions make would make no sense if he could see the roaches.
On May 09 2010 07:11 EvilTeletubby wrote: keep in mind that our goal is to maintain the fairest environment in the name of competition that we can for all players.
I also want to encourage everyone to not hold it against Slush - He felt as if had a legitimate chance, and left it in our hands. This was an Admin decision, not his.
Left the important parts. If it was for "fairness, you'd see that Artosis had his hydras chilling in Slush's last mining base, so we go to resources and see that while Slush has been saving up resources, he only has around 700 gas (he's still mining gas, though) and 3k mins. He has all tech options available, and has +3/+3 for hydras and roaches, while it's only +1/0 for his mutas. He has a few options, he can:
A) Expand again, 400 mins each and he really only has the option to expand back to his gold, where a crap ton of hydras are chillin w/ reinforcements on the way. Game goes to artosis.
B) Use the last of his resources to build up his very own hydra/roach army... but how much can he really get? With 700 gass that's 14 hydras right away, with 0 roaches. He also has a good number of mutas, but those are going to get dropped by the corrupters almost immediately. Game goes to Artosis.
C) Artosis can a-move all his drones and bring his army back to his main while Slush pushes with all his forces, beats the drones, beats every expo, and THEN Artosis DC's. Game goes to Slush.
Yup, option C is totally viable, good thing you made them re so Slush could cheese his way to the next round!
On May 09 2010 07:11 EvilTeletubby wrote: keep in mind that our goal is to maintain the fairest environment in the name of competition that we can for all players.
I also want to encourage everyone to not hold it against Slush - He felt as if had a legitimate chance, and left it in our hands. This was an Admin decision, not his.
Left the important parts. If it was for "fairness, you'd see that Artosis had his hydras chilling in Slush's last mining base, so we go to resources and see that while Slush has been saving up resources, he only has around 700 gas (he's still mining gas, though) and 3k mins. He has all tech options available, and has +3/+3 for hydras and roaches, while it's only +1/0 for his mutas. He has a few options, he can:
A) Expand again, 400 mins each and he really only has the option to expand back to his gold, where a crap ton of hydras are chillin w/ reinforcements on the way. Game goes to artosis.
B) Use the last of his resources to build up his very own hydra/roach army... but how much can he really get? With 700 gass that's 14 hydras right away, with 0 roaches. He also has a good number of mutas, but those are going to get dropped by the corrupters almost immediately. Game goes to Artosis.
C) Artosis can a-move all his drones and bring his army back to his main while Slush pushes with all his forces, beats the drones, beats every expo, and THEN Artosis DC's. Game goes to Slush.
Yup, option C is totally viable, good thing you made them re so Slush could cheese his way to the next round!
It's also fair to beat your opponent without disconnecting, which is purely objective. Victory is subjective when a disconnect occurs. In this case, Nazgul said it best:
"If you disc and your opponent has as much as a 1% chance it's a regame. It's you who discs and who's at fault plenty of systems give you a loss for that. If the rule would be any different it would allow people to gain advantages and disconnect after with no chance of a comeback for their opponents."
Let's try and not talk about the regame until the event is over okay guys. Let's focus on the games at hand and we can talk about the DC when we've all calmed down.
When Louder killed Slush's first overlord in game 3 i thought it was over, but I think Louder went too far with upgrades and not enough units letting Slush back into the game.
On May 09 2010 07:34 Plexa wrote: Let's try and not talk about the regame until the event is over okay guys. Let's focus on the games at hand and we can talk about the DC when we've all calmed down.
You're right... I'm sorry :/
Anyways, good to see a final that's protossless :D
On May 09 2010 07:40 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: Am I allowed to just talk about the games on this thread without having to post spoiler tags? I see a lot of other people doing it.
On May 09 2010 07:34 Plexa wrote: Let's try and not talk about the regame until the event is over okay guys. Let's focus on the games at hand and we can talk about the DC when we've all calmed down.
great tourney and coverage of it, an evening/night well spent. Still 2 matches to go but i think ill watch vods of those cause i've been sitting on the stream for like 4+ hours ;s
On May 09 2010 07:45 Skvid wrote: great tourney and coverage of it, an evening/night well spent. Still 2 matches to go but i think ill watch vods of those cause i've been sitting on the stream for like 4+ hours ;s
Huk really on tilt here. He had the advantage at several points and failed to capitalize. Then continued to pump immortals vs. a very marine heavy army by Louder.
On May 09 2010 08:07 Jyvblamo wrote: Seems like P has to transition from immortals to collosi or HT to remain cost efficient vs terran in the mid-late game.
Yup. Just need something to nullify the Medivacs - I personally feel that templar are better at doing this at the moment since feedback makes them useless heh. But colossus have their place too
It's not even like he has to switch to colossus or HT from immortal, but he needs to do that when the Terran isn't making many marauders. It was 75% marine, 25% marauder, I can guarantee that most of those immortals were hitting marines, only doing 20 damage, which is a huge waste. He should have switched to HT or colossus once he saw that a lot of Louder's army were marines.
HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
yeah that was really strange, he started to charge on the CC but pulled them off right before they would have been charged to attack the scvs on gas. maybe he was not focusing and just assumed they were charged
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
yeah, i was raging a bit inside of this very poor play..
On May 09 2010 08:17 LUE.Leoj wrote: Louder: joke units
I disagree, that was just joke control.
ever tried to micro vikings vs void rays? its not possible, because they are barely faster than void rays and cant escape. a moving shot like with phoenix is not possible, while moving shot with void ray requires no micro at all.
On May 09 2010 08:17 LUE.Leoj wrote: Louder: joke units
I disagree, that was just joke control.
ever tried to micro vikings vs void rays? its not possible, because they are barely faster than void rays and cant escape. a moving shot like with phoenix is not possible, while moving shot with void ray requires no micro at all.
Yeah but given he had one more Viking than Void Ray, with proper focus fire, there was no need to lose all of his units.
He just seems to forget you need to focus them down instead of letting them all charge up.
Amazed he GG'd - isn't 2 probe kills almost enough to justify reapers? sure he's going to be behind but it's not unwinnable from there.
BTW with the disconnect, the fairest thing to do is use the map editor to recreate the game exactly the way it was before the disc happened 8D Seriously though it would be good if blizz implemented a way of being able to load up a replay and actually play the game from any point in the rep.
On May 09 2010 08:27 Salv wrote: Can someone just explain what happened? I was looking at something else and turned back to see a 'gg' from Louder.
Louder tried a super early reaper rush. Huk scouted it very well and then denied it brilliantly with a troupe of probes right near his ledge so that every time the reaper popped up, his probes were right there to surround it. So Louder barely had a chance to get his reapers up into Huk's base. Then Huk's stalker came out and made short work of the reapers. Louder made serious sacrifices to his economy to make the reaper rush but barely did any damage with it, so he just gg'd.
On May 09 2010 08:27 Salv wrote: Can someone just explain what happened? I was looking at something else and turned back to see a 'gg' from Louder.
Louder tried a super early reaper rush. Huk scouted it very well and then denied it brilliantly with a troupe of probes right near his ledge so that every time the reaper popped up, his probes were right there to surround it. So Louder barely had a chance to get his reapers up into Huk's base. Then Huk's stalker came out, and it made short work of the reapers. Louder's made serious sacrifices to his economy to make the reaper rush but barely did any damage with it, so he just gg'd.
On May 09 2010 06:11 Sfydjklm wrote: u cant give wins to the players who disconnected, it would be way too easy to pull the plug as soon as u secured any sort of advantage.
have to correct myself after watchign the rep but you guys really dropped the ball tehre. Artosis clearly won can't believe in that hour u were arguing you couldnt find a top zerg who would elaborate on why Slush had no chance in that game.
Amazed he GG'd - isn't 2 probe kills almost enough to justify reapers? sure he's going to be behind but it's not unwinnable from there.
BTW with the disconnect, the fairest thing to do is use the map editor to recreate the game exactly the way it was before the disc happened 8D Seriously though it would be good if blizz implemented a way of being able to load up a replay and actually play the game from any point in the rep.
It was a 6 rax reaper rush cheese... There was no way he'd catch up in economy again. He didn't even build a supply depot until the reapers were on the way
On May 09 2010 08:35 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: SNIPE THE WARP PRISM!
Wow, big loss.
QQ. Come on Huk!
Edit: wow he comes back anyway! uber! Grats Huk, now put that $50 toward a new comp so you can crush idra next time you run into his obnoxious nerd ass ^^
On May 09 2010 08:38 Jyvblamo wrote: This game made no sense. Did Louder forget to macro?
Yeah, I want to see the replay. I have no idea what happened. Day9 echoing the thoughts as well.
An army of medivacs and SCVs isn't going to win you the game, no matter how many you have... louder was ahead in food but had less actual damage dealing units, and even with that much healing marines still die pretty quickly, especially without the shield upgrade.
So that last game was bizarre.. did Louder make too many medivacs or something? I mean even the first timing push should have sealed it as Huk had just lost 2x immortals and wasn't mining from his expo yet. It just felt like Louder had such a small army for being up 20 food or whatever Day9 said.
On May 09 2010 08:38 Jyvblamo wrote: This game made no sense. Did Louder forget to macro?
Yeah, I want to see the replay. I have no idea what happened. Day9 echoing the thoughts as well.
An army of medivacs and SCVs isn't going to win you the game, no matter how many you have... louder was ahead in food but had less actual damage dealing units, and even with that much healing marines still die pretty quickly, especially without the shield upgrade.
I'm well aware of how his army lost vs huk's. My question, which has been answered by Louder in the stream, was basically why his army was so small. He mentioned he made 20 too many scvs, which would make up for his poor army size despite having what should have been a fairly large advantage in eco and army after the prism loss.
On May 09 2010 08:38 Jyvblamo wrote: This game made no sense. Did Louder forget to macro?
Yeah, I want to see the replay. I have no idea what happened. Day9 echoing the thoughts as well.
An army of medivacs and SCVs isn't going to win you the game, no matter how many you have... louder was ahead in food but had less actual damage dealing units, and even with that much healing marines still die pretty quickly, especially without the shield upgrade.
I'm well aware of how his army lost vs huk's. My question, which has been answered by Louder in the stream, was basically why his army was so small. He mentioned he made 20 too many scvs, which would make up for his poor army size despite having what should have been a fairly large advantage in eco and army after the prism loss.
I went into SCV madness mode and didn't add barracks when I should've since he lost that early drop without doing any damage. Oh well.
To clarify, that was a 7rax reaper. I was just hoping he wouldn't see it because if they pull probes ahead of time and are ready for it, it's basically impossible to do damage. Reapers aren't REALLY fast enough to properly kite workers, they just move too close to the same speed. I really don't like TvP right now and just wanted to end it quick. Just didn't end the way I'd wanted.
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: lol @ huk saying well played, what an asshole!
? i wasnt being an asshole ? not trying to bad mannered or nething? dont get why u wont get off my dick
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 09:01 Dionyseus wrote: Day and Wheat make a good casting team, I find Wheat to be funnier, and Day better with talking strategy.
Totally agree.
I really enjoy how Wheat asks Day[9] lots of questions during the game at critical moments. I'm sure there are people watching who are asking themselves the exact same questions and we get Day[9]'s insight from it. It's kind of like a senior/junior casting team in a sense, which gives it a slightly different feel than two casters whom are both very knowledgeable. Makes for a very enjoyable cast. =)
On May 09 2010 09:28 floor exercise wrote: Event took way too long because of certain unfortunate incidents. I don't know if it's still going on but 6 hours straight is too much :/
And while I don't think Artosis should have been throwing fits like a child about it, he had that game really clearly won.
He may have.
But he needs to take a page from professional sports, ignore the bad call, and go out there and take care of business again. Whining about the refs is always the sign of an immature player in any sport.
On May 09 2010 09:23 disco wrote: Man that Artosis vs Slush game was such an easy call. If Artosis disconnected 20 seconds later Slush would've GG'd by then, and he knows that.
Honestly, I don't know how it was possibly "too close to call". Artosis really got screwed and Slush should've manned up and took the loss.
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: lol @ huk saying well played, what an asshole!
? i wasnt being an asshole ? not trying to bad mannered or nething? dont get why u wont get off my dick
I think Nony was just joking.
well it is humorous but i meant what i said. louder was way ahead after killing the warp prism + 2 immortals and then he blew the game, said he fucked up, and huk's response is to say wp. if he actually means what he says with his wp bullshit, then it was a total asshole thing to say. could be he just hits enter wp enter enter gg enter like a fucking robot. anyway, yeah, this event lost credibility because of the artosis/slush thing.
Yeah, I was about to mention the same thing Day9 said, once you get Banshees, you can get Ravens as well, ever-useful now with the easier Hunter-Seeker Missiles.
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: lol @ huk saying well played, what an asshole!
? i wasnt being an asshole ? not trying to bad mannered or nething? dont get why u wont get off my dick
I think Nony was just joking.
well it is humorous but i meant what i said. louder was way ahead after killing the warp prism + 2 immortals and then he blew the game, said he fucked up, and huk's response is to say wp. if he actually means what he says with his wp bullshit, then it was a total asshole thing to say. could be he just hits enter wp enter enter gg enter like a fucking robot. anyway, yeah, this event lost credibility because of the artosis/slush thing.
The event lost credibility? I see things a differently....
As far as I'm concerned, Artosis lost credibility for freaking out and acting like a child. As Panzer said, even if it was a bad call, take it like a pro and move on.
And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
Anyway just want to point out that "the event losses credibility" is not a necessary reading (or even the best reading, imo) of the Artosis/Slush controversy.
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: lol @ huk saying well played, what an asshole!
? i wasnt being an asshole ? not trying to bad mannered or nething? dont get why u wont get off my dick
I think Nony was just joking.
well it is humorous but i meant what i said. louder was way ahead after killing the warp prism + 2 immortals and then he blew the game, said he fucked up, and huk's response is to say wp. if he actually means what he says with his wp bullshit, then it was a total asshole thing to say. could be he just hits enter wp enter enter gg enter like a fucking robot. anyway, yeah, this event lost credibility because of the artosis/slush thing.
The event lost credibility? I see things a differently....
As far as I'm concerned, Artosis lost credibility for freaking out and acting like a child. As Panzer said, even if it was a bad call, take it like a pro and move on.
And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
Anyway just want to point out that "the event losses credibility" is not a necessary reading (or even the best reading, imo) of the Artosis/Slush controversy.
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: lol @ huk saying well played, what an asshole!
? i wasnt being an asshole ? not trying to bad mannered or nething? dont get why u wont get off my dick
I think Nony was just joking.
well it is humorous but i meant what i said. louder was way ahead after killing the warp prism + 2 immortals and then he blew the game, said he fucked up, and huk's response is to say wp. if he actually means what he says with his wp bullshit, then it was a total asshole thing to say. could be he just hits enter wp enter enter gg enter like a fucking robot. anyway, yeah, this event lost credibility because of the artosis/slush thing.
The event lost credibility? I see things a differently....
As far as I'm concerned, Artosis lost credibility for freaking out and acting like a child. As Panzer said, even if it was a bad call, take it like a pro and move on.
And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
Anyway just want to point out that "the event losses credibility" is not a necessary reading (or even the best reading, imo) of the Artosis/Slush controversy.
you just lost credibility
Mature dude, mature. Great to see senior members setting a good example
I think it should have been a restart for Artosis/Slush as anyone could d/c once in a while. Anyway you could say it's luck, but sometimes it's your internet provider.
Another point is that as we all have many pc's at home we can watch the Stream at the same time as participants play and they can just pretend that they're scouting :DD while they see the whole view + comments
I was about to say.... At this point I'm more interested in the fallout of the Artosis/Slush debacle. BUT, that was such a SICK opening by Cathonluck, I wanna see him destroy slush even though I'm a zerg fanboy. Epic comeback incoming.
I think Huk was mannered about it. If louder wanted to talk about losing talk about it after the game or even better after the series.
If I were in a tournament and somebody said more then GG I would tell them to shut the fuck up and leave. Don't need to hear excuses, reasons, or thoughts on what happened.
Considering how glitchy beta still is, especially for some systems, you just have to not worry about who disced. Treat it like an independent event every time and determine if any player was at a significant advantage. Why would they review a replay if they weren't going to call a winner either way (even when it was clear)?
On May 09 2010 09:45 roughinator wrote: I think it should have been a restart for Artosis/Slush as anyone could d/c once in a while. Anyway you could say it's luck, but sometimes it's your internet provider.
Another point is that as we all have many pc's at home we can watch the Stream at the same time as participants play and they can just pretend that they're scouting :DD while they see the whole view + comments
Regame when there is no clear winner. This game there was a clear winner.. like crystal clear.
On May 09 2010 09:42 UltraVires wrote: And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
You don't "gain credibility" for sticking by a bad call. A ref in a sports game making a shitty call, and sticking by it does not give the ref greater credibility, actually if he does it often he'll probably lose his job. That's like saying Bush gained credibility for sticking by his shitty decisions when he was President.
On May 09 2010 09:48 XtrEEmMaShEEN3k2 wrote: Slush just left it to the judges. And Slush is under no obligation to hand Artosis the win.
No one should even care about what slush says, plus he said that he thought he would still win, read somewhere above in this thread. Which is pretty scummy considering that he knows the game and his chances to win.
On May 09 2010 07:34 Plexa wrote: Let's try and not talk about the regame until the event is over okay guys. Let's focus on the games at hand and we can talk about the DC when we've all calmed down.
Reminds me of the situation between Firefist and BackHo where BackHo gg's and leaves the game when he was about to win. Firefist was given the option of a regame but he let BackHo have the win
On May 09 2010 09:42 UltraVires wrote: And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
You don't "gain credibility" for sticking by a bad call. A ref in a sports game making a shitty call, and sticking by it does not give the ref greater credibility, actually if he does it often he'll probably lose his job. That's like saying Bush gained credibility for sticking by his shitty decisions when he was President.
I agree with this *if* it was truly a terrible call. I haven't watched the replay yet and im no expert, but if there even a remote chance that Slush could have won, regame has to be the right call, esp since it was Artosis who dropped. Certainly if it was Slush who had dropped we wouldnt be having this conversation right now.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
Slush either truly believed he could win with the mutas, or he didn't believe it but wanted an extra chance against Artosis.
*shrug*
I think if this were the MSL or OSL, the judges would've given Artosis the win. But TL's rules are different, so what can you do. IMO, Artosis could've handled it more stoically, but I could see why he broke down after suffering so many computer problems and being frustrated with his recent tournament results.
On May 09 2010 09:42 UltraVires wrote: And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
You don't "gain credibility" for sticking by a bad call. A ref in a sports game making a shitty call, and sticking by it does not give the ref greater credibility, actually if he does it often he'll probably lose his job. That's like saying Bush gained credibility for sticking by his shitty decisions when he was President.
I agree with this *if* it was truly a terrible call. I haven't watched the replay yet and im no expert, but if there was any remote chance that Slush could win, regame has to be the right call, esp since it was Artosis who dropped. Certainly if it was Slush who had dropped we wouldnt be having this conversation right now.
There was no chance Slush could win, non at all. It was a massive lead in bases and army by Artosis. Basically 2 mining bases vs no mining bases if the game lasted for 20 more seconds.
On May 09 2010 09:42 UltraVires wrote: And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
You don't "gain credibility" for sticking by a bad call. A ref in a sports game making a shitty call, and sticking by it does not give the ref greater credibility, actually if he does it often he'll probably lose his job. That's like saying Bush gained credibility for sticking by his shitty decisions when he was President.
I agree with this *if* it was truly a terrible call. I haven't watched the replay yet and im no expert
IT WAS. I don't know why you have so much to say if you don't even understand the situation.
On May 09 2010 09:45 roughinator wrote: I think it should have been a restart for Artosis/Slush as anyone could d/c once in a while. Anyway you could say it's luck, but sometimes it's your internet provider.
Another point is that as we all have many pc's at home we can watch the Stream at the same time as participants play and they can just pretend that they're scouting :DD while they see the whole view + comments
Regame when there is no clear winner. This game there was a clear winner.. like crystal clear.
It doesn't matter, if you're better you'll win the second time as well.
On May 09 2010 09:45 roughinator wrote: I think it should have been a restart for Artosis/Slush as anyone could d/c once in a while. Anyway you could say it's luck, but sometimes it's your internet provider.
Another point is that as we all have many pc's at home we can watch the Stream at the same time as participants play and they can just pretend that they're scouting :DD while they see the whole view + comments
Regame when there is no clear winner. This game there was a clear winner.. like crystal clear.
It doesn't matter, if you're better you'll win the second time as well.
On May 09 2010 09:45 roughinator wrote: I think it should have been a restart for Artosis/Slush as anyone could d/c once in a while. Anyway you could say it's luck, but sometimes it's your internet provider.
Another point is that as we all have many pc's at home we can watch the Stream at the same time as participants play and they can just pretend that they're scouting :DD while they see the whole view + comments
Regame when there is no clear winner. This game there was a clear winner.. like crystal clear.
It doesn't matter, if you're better you'll win the second time as well.
Generally when people are forced to play rematches they believe unfair, they play a lot worse due to their mental state of distress.
On May 09 2010 09:45 roughinator wrote: I think it should have been a restart for Artosis/Slush as anyone could d/c once in a while. Anyway you could say it's luck, but sometimes it's your internet provider.
Another point is that as we all have many pc's at home we can watch the Stream at the same time as participants play and they can just pretend that they're scouting :DD while they see the whole view + comments
Regame when there is no clear winner. This game there was a clear winner.. like crystal clear.
It doesn't matter, if you're better you'll win the second time as well.
And ofcourse the mental setback by having to regame a win doesn't mean anything.
On May 09 2010 09:45 roughinator wrote: I think it should have been a restart for Artosis/Slush as anyone could d/c once in a while. Anyway you could say it's luck, but sometimes it's your internet provider.
Another point is that as we all have many pc's at home we can watch the Stream at the same time as participants play and they can just pretend that they're scouting :DD while they see the whole view + comments
Regame when there is no clear winner. This game there was a clear winner.. like crystal clear.
It doesn't matter, if you're better you'll win the second time as well.
Generally when people are forced to play rematches they believe unfair, they play a lot worse due to their mental state of distress.
Evermore so given the fact he 9 (maybe 10) pooled against Artosis' FE in the next game supposedly.
Luck reminds me of Boxer, he REALLY lacks in expanding but his micro is great (in most cases) and he has a good overall gamesense. When he had the contain I don't understand why he didn't take a third as well. But regardless, well played by Slush.
Good game sense? He always leaves enemy expansions alone and rarely scouts them out. He is my favorite Terran player though, his unit control is amazing.
On May 09 2010 09:45 roughinator wrote: I think it should have been a restart for Artosis/Slush as anyone could d/c once in a while. Anyway you could say it's luck, but sometimes it's your internet provider.
Another point is that as we all have many pc's at home we can watch the Stream at the same time as participants play and they can just pretend that they're scouting :DD while they see the whole view + comments
Regame when there is no clear winner. This game there was a clear winner.. like crystal clear.
It doesn't matter, if you're better you'll win the second time as well.
That's not true on many levels. Besides the mental state, regaming a game you won basically means the opponent just got a free lesson in your build and play. This could potentially make it easy for him to "counter" you the next game.
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: lol @ huk saying well played, what an asshole!
? i wasnt being an asshole ? not trying to bad mannered or nething? dont get why u wont get off my dick
I think Nony was just joking.
well it is humorous but i meant what i said. louder was way ahead after killing the warp prism + 2 immortals and then he blew the game, said he fucked up, and huk's response is to say wp. if he actually means what he says with his wp bullshit, then it was a total asshole thing to say. could be he just hits enter wp enter enter gg enter like a fucking robot. anyway, yeah, this event lost credibility because of the artosis/slush thing.
The event lost credibility? I see things a differently....
As far as I'm concerned, Artosis lost credibility for freaking out and acting like a child. As Panzer said, even if it was a bad call, take it like a pro and move on.
And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
Anyway just want to point out that "the event losses credibility" is not a necessary reading (or even the best reading, imo) of the Artosis/Slush controversy.
you just lost credibility
Mature dude, mature. Great to see senior members setting a good example
whaaaaaat? and you are acting more mature? haha
artosis doesn't lose credibility at all for anything. a player's role is to stick up for himself and make sure he doesnt get fucked over. he got fucked over before the decision was made because of how the situation was being handled and when the decision was made, he was definitely fucked over. if this shit was professional, you might not have the player himself going insane, instead you'd have the coaches/managers telling the player "stay calm and focused" while the coaches/managers go insane on the admins, as has happened in korea more than once
tournament admins gain credibility for sticking to the wrong decision? nooo
the event loses credibility because a player who won did not advance. nobody can take the results seriously because you don't know where artosis should be.
most of all, slush loses credibility. every top player who has looked at the game so far has said artosis wins 99%+ of the time. slush said that wasn't the case. this isn't slush sticking up for himself, but rather slush straight up lying to have a chance at an easy win.
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: lol @ huk saying well played, what an asshole!
? i wasnt being an asshole ? not trying to bad mannered or nething? dont get why u wont get off my dick
I think Nony was just joking.
well it is humorous but i meant what i said. louder was way ahead after killing the warp prism + 2 immortals and then he blew the game, said he fucked up, and huk's response is to say wp. if he actually means what he says with his wp bullshit, then it was a total asshole thing to say. could be he just hits enter wp enter enter gg enter like a fucking robot. anyway, yeah, this event lost credibility because of the artosis/slush thing.
The event lost credibility? I see things a differently....
As far as I'm concerned, Artosis lost credibility for freaking out and acting like a child. As Panzer said, even if it was a bad call, take it like a pro and move on.
And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
Anyway just want to point out that "the event losses credibility" is not a necessary reading (or even the best reading, imo) of the Artosis/Slush controversy.
Good call by the judges on the artosis-sludge issue imo. If Slush said he had a chance to win, and Artosis was the one who dced, it was the only right call to make.
I havent seen the replay, but if Slush really didnt have a chance to win the community will judge him accordingly. It severly discredits the validity of his TLI victory.
its a shame the whole Artosis drama had to happen, if the losing/disadvantageous player would have dropped, the opposite player probably would have been given the win, rather than doing a rematch.
On May 09 2010 10:08 Gnarg wrote: Good call by the judges on the artosis-sludge issue imo. If Slush said he had a chance to win, and Artosis was the one who dced, it was the only right call to make.
I havent seen the replay, but if Slush really didnt have a chance on win the community will judge him accordingly. It severly discredits the validity of his TLI victory.
Slush is clearly very good since he beat all the other top players with the exception of Artosis in straight-up games. But to say that he stood a chance in the end of the third game is dubious.
I always look forward to TL hosted tournaments the most and this one didn't disappoint <3
Amazing commentary, Djwheat worked really well with both chill and day9 and I want to give extra props to chill, because I really enjoyed his commentary and was slightly sad to not see him switched back into the rotation. Having these great 3 guys casting made all the delays seem nonexistent and even entertaining haha "Make me host"
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: lol @ huk saying well played, what an asshole!
? i wasnt being an asshole ? not trying to bad mannered or nething? dont get why u wont get off my dick
I think Nony was just joking.
well it is humorous but i meant what i said. louder was way ahead after killing the warp prism + 2 immortals and then he blew the game, said he fucked up, and huk's response is to say wp. if he actually means what he says with his wp bullshit, then it was a total asshole thing to say. could be he just hits enter wp enter enter gg enter like a fucking robot. anyway, yeah, this event lost credibility because of the artosis/slush thing.
The event lost credibility? I see things a differently....
As far as I'm concerned, Artosis lost credibility for freaking out and acting like a child. As Panzer said, even if it was a bad call, take it like a pro and move on.
And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
Anyway just want to point out that "the event losses credibility" is not a necessary reading (or even the best reading, imo) of the Artosis/Slush controversy.
you just lost credibility
Mature dude, mature. Great to see senior members setting a good example
whaaaaaat? and you are acting more mature? haha
artosis doesn't lose credibility at all for anything. a player's role is to stick up for himself and make sure he doesnt get fucked over. he got fucked over before the decision was made because of how the situation was being handled and when the decision was made, he was definitely fucked over. if this shit was professional, you might not have the player himself going insane, instead you'd have the coaches/managers telling the player "stay calm and focused" while the coaches/managers go insane on the admins, as has happened in korea more than once
tournament admins gain credibility for sticking to the wrong decision? nooo
the event loses credibility because a player who won did not advance. nobody can take the results seriously because you don't know where artosis should be.
most of all, slush loses credibility. every top player who has looked at the game so far has said artosis wins 99%+ of the time. slush said that wasn't the case. this isn't slush sticking up for himself, but rather slush straight up lying to have a chance at an easy win.
Thanks for giving a respectful and reasoned response rather than a snippy "your opinion is wrong" response. It makes sense that we would have different expectations of artosis if he had coaches behind him.
Anyway i guess the issue turns on how bad the call was. I'm watching the replay now. Still, i put a lot more weight on the fact that it was artosis who dropped as a reason to grant a regame.
I do not personally think Slush should get any credit for winning this tournament, and I think that his character is questionable at best given that he lied through his teeth to get a cheap victory.
I hope it is at least acknowledged that this was/is not a proper outcome for this tournament.
Would like to thank all the players for great games, organizers for getting this going and administrating and casters for covering the games. Great job by all I think!
Really enjoyed watching the tourney on DJwheat's stream with Day, Chill and DJwheat. Awesome shoutcasting and commentary, not to mention they did this the entire length of the tournament, a truly marathon stream. Much appreciated guys! This is what gives me hope for the future of SC2, people that are so passionate about it and eSports. I see nothing but good for the future of this scene.
Grats to Slush in his win in the grand finals.
Note: I have yet to look into the Artosis-Slush matches. But that withstanding, it was still a very good tournament from the perspective of the audience.
On May 09 2010 10:16 Psiven wrote: Regardless of the call, it's pretty clear who was bad mannered here and it wasn't Slush. Grats to him.
So opposing wrong decision by the refs is bm now? If Artosis was only a bit ahead and disconnected then yea it should be regame otherwise people will start dc after taking a lead but why would Artosis want to dc in this case? He was about to win.
On May 09 2010 10:16 Psiven wrote: Regardless of the call, it's pretty clear who was bad mannered here and it wasn't Slush. Grats to him.
So opposing wrong decision by the refs is bm now? If Artosis was only a bit ahead and disconnected then yea it should be regame otherwise people will start dc after taking a lead but why would Artosis want to dc in this case? He was about to win.
Artosis didn't DC on purpose...get your facts straight
DJwheat is an amazing co caster. He doesn't have the deep knowledge, but he has other commentating skills unique to him. He is super funny, doesn't pronounce things like a retard (zerging), and when the time calls for it asks his co commentators for more insight.
Probably the most enjoyable commentating ever with day9/chill/ and DJwheat.
Slush was entitled to a rematch by tourney rules (ie: admins make the call). However, it's not like Slush has no role in the entire decision. Slush gets to make the final call on whether to accept or decline the rematch. I hope 300$ was worth his integrity. I'm sure all the other SC2 tops are not going to have a favorable impression of him after this debacle.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
The danger is that if you give Artosis the win there, people are going to start DCing when they sense they have a pretty good lead so they dont have to risk finishing the game off, and then arguing "just give me the win like you did with Artosis, I was ahead anyways". Its just going to be a bad precedent to set.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
The danger is that if you give Artosis the win there, people are going to start DCing when they sense they have a pretty good lead so they dont have to risk finishing the game off, and then arguing "just give me the win like you did with Artosis, I was ahead anyways". Its just going to be a bad precedent to set.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
The danger is that if you give Artosis the win there, people are going to start DCing when they sense they have a pretty good lead so they dont have to risk finishing the game off, and then arguing "just give me the win like you did with Artosis, I was ahead anyways". Its just going to be a bad precedent to set.
Exactly.
you cant put it like that, and i really dont think people would start doing that.
On the note " even though they will make a new thread for this at some point "
Artosis had that game 100% there was no way AT all that slush could come back from that, none what so ever.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
The danger is that if you give Artosis the win there, people are going to start DCing when they sense they have a pretty good lead so they dont have to risk finishing the game off, and then arguing "just give me the win like you did with Artosis, I was ahead anyways". Its just going to be a bad precedent to set.
Only if judges/admins are gullible. Seriously, if you have a huge, gigantic lead required to be awarded a win if YOU dc, then you're going to lock up the win regardless of the disc.
Having 2 sets of discing rules whether the person who is ahead or behind discs isn't a terrible idea. Like, if there is a legitimate chance of a small comeback, then by all means do a regame. I think most people agree on this if slush had ANY shot.
But in this case, there simply wasn't any shot. Not just a large advantage. The game was over.
edit: Other thread was closed about it so I wont respond on this topic again. My b.
Don't participate in a tournament knowing you have problems that could cause disconnects and knowing full well this is a situation that could have happened any time in any game.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
The danger is that if you give Artosis the win there, people are going to start DCing when they sense they have a pretty good lead so they dont have to risk finishing the game off, and then arguing "just give me the win like you did with Artosis, I was ahead anyways". Its just going to be a bad precedent to set.
This is why the TOURNEY ADMINS did not necessarily make the worst decision.
It was Slush who should have taken the honorable route and conceded his loss.
On May 09 2010 11:30 epik151 wrote: I don't think Artosis is arguing that he was in the lead. I believe his argument is that Slush was in a position to say GG and leave but hadn't yet.
So if you're afraid of people playing to the point where the other person is about to say gg but they purposely disconnect...
My thoughts exactly. People arguing this are attacking a strawman rather than what actually happened.
On May 09 2010 11:37 Jyvblamo wrote: Would it be so hard for Blizzard to implement some method for players to reconnect to games they've disconnected from? IIRC you could do it in HoN.
Or alternatively, develop a smooth way to autosave or be able to play from a replay game-state.
Developing these sort of features would be much more welcome than this integrating Facebook crap they're doing.
I believe their technology makes it impossible to reconnect. The server structure is different than HoNs. However they have had the ability to save a game previously so that isn't too far stretched.
^ It would not be hard but they just don't have a reason to do it. If the opposing player disconnects, it registers as a win. If they allow reconnecting, what happens if the players never connects back? You have to wait 5 minute before they get dropped before taking the win? No thanks. It just delays things to much. It also has to do with the fact that Battle.net2.0 is P2P while HoN is a server based game.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
The danger is that if you give Artosis the win there, people are going to start DCing when they sense they have a pretty good lead so they dont have to risk finishing the game off, and then arguing "just give me the win like you did with Artosis, I was ahead anyways". Its just going to be a bad precedent to set.
This is why the TOURNEY ADMINS did not necessarily make the worst decision.
It was Slush who should have taken the honorable route and conceded his loss.
Is it possible he still THOUGHT he had a chance? That's really all that matters. If he did, then it is clearly up to the admins.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
The danger is that if you give Artosis the win there, people are going to start DCing when they sense they have a pretty good lead so they dont have to risk finishing the game off, and then arguing "just give me the win like you did with Artosis, I was ahead anyways". Its just going to be a bad precedent to set.
This is why the TOURNEY ADMINS did not necessarily make the worst decision.
It was Slush who should have taken the honorable route and conceded his loss.
Is it possible he still THOUGHT he had a chance? That's really all that matters. If he did, then it is clearly up to the admins.
I spoke to slush immediately after the D/C (before Artosis even logged back on), and he clearly felt as if he had a chance. Obviously he was biased and lacking complete information at the time, but I don't necessarily think that's a reason to demonize the guy.
On May 09 2010 11:37 Jyvblamo wrote: Would it be so hard for Blizzard to implement some method for players to reconnect to games they've disconnected from? IIRC you could do it in HoN.
Or alternatively, develop a smooth way to autosave or be able to play from a replay game-state.
Developing these sort of features would be much more welcome than this integrating Facebook crap they're doing.
Yeah, I can't believe that entering a replay would be so difficult to do. Although it's possible the part of the engine that handles replays is just fundamentally badly coded, since they can't even get multiple people watching a replay.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
The danger is that if you give Artosis the win there, people are going to start DCing when they sense they have a pretty good lead so they dont have to risk finishing the game off, and then arguing "just give me the win like you did with Artosis, I was ahead anyways". Its just going to be a bad precedent to set.
This is why the TOURNEY ADMINS did not necessarily make the worst decision.
It was Slush who should have taken the honorable route and conceded his loss.
Is it possible he still THOUGHT he had a chance? That's really all that matters. If he did, then it is clearly up to the admins.
Who knows ^^ i doubt slush will come on the forums and state that he 100% thought that he could still win and if he did, he could still have watched the replay and then im sure he could see that there was no chance in hell.
On May 09 2010 11:42 GenoZStriker wrote: ^ It would not be hard but they just don't have a reason to do it. If the opposing player disconnects, it registers as a win. If they allow reconnecting, what happens if the players never connects back? You have to wait 5 minute before they get dropped before taking the win? No thanks. It just delays things to much. It also has to do with the fact that Battle.net2.0 is P2P while HoN is a server based game.
B-net 2.0 isn't p2p, HoN's server structure isn't viable in games with large amounts of actors going on in game, there's too much going on for it to be stored server side and pulled up on demand.
imo, I agree with the admin decision. Almost all high level games DQ you if you DC, so a rematch if you're winning, yes, winning with a very big advantage, a RM is fair.
On May 09 2010 11:42 GenoZStriker wrote: ^ It would not be hard but they just don't have a reason to do it. If the opposing player disconnects, it registers as a win. If they allow reconnecting, what happens if the players never connects back? You have to wait 5 minute before they get dropped before taking the win? No thanks. It just delays things to much. It also has to do with the fact that Battle.net2.0 is P2P while HoN is a server based game.
IIRC, Battle.net 2.0 isn't P2P. And my suggestions were more directed towards custom games or 2v2/3v3/4v4 games where they would be more practical.
In the chat log that Artosis posted, Slush claims he watched the replay. So he obviously knew there was zero chance... any player of his caliber would. Then in the regame, he 9 pools hoping for an easy victory after Artosis is already tilting... not exactly very sportsman like play.
On May 09 2010 11:30 epik151 wrote: I don't think Artosis is arguing that he was in the lead. I believe his argument is that Slush was in a position to say GG and leave but hadn't yet.
So if you're afraid of people playing to the point where the other person is about to say gg but they purposely disconnect...
My thoughts exactly. People arguing this are attacking a strawman rather than what actually happened.
These.
I was convinced he 100% had the game won. There's a difference between discing with a simple lead and discing from an overwhelming lead. Discing with an overwhelming lead just doesn't make much sense.
On May 09 2010 10:56 MayorITC wrote: Slush was entitled to a rematch by tourney rules (ie: admins make the call). However, it's not like Slush has no role in the entire decision. Slush gets to make the final call on whether to accept or decline the rematch. I hope 300$ was worth his integrity. I'm sure all the other SC2 tops are not going to have a favorable impression of him after this debacle.
$300 isn't chump change, granted what he did is frowned upon (rightfully so) but honestly esports is always like this, cutthroat. if you are given another chance, take it. the war3 scene had shit like this all the time.
On May 09 2010 11:42 GenoZStriker wrote: ^ It would not be hard but they just don't have a reason to do it. If the opposing player disconnects, it registers as a win. If they allow reconnecting, what happens if the players never connects back? You have to wait 5 minute before they get dropped before taking the win? No thanks. It just delays things to much. It also has to do with the fact that Battle.net2.0 is P2P while HoN is a server based game.
Simply making reconnecting in custom games would be fine, don't need it in ladder. oh dear I dc'd from ladder, there goes my 15 points.. who cares.
Really it's pretty shitty that blizzard don't allow for reconnection in custom games, dota like ports and stuff could really do with it.
Doesn't have to force pause the game or whatever because it would be susceptible to abuse, just let the game play on but in a tournament the other player/specs can pause till rejoin.
On May 09 2010 09:45 roughinator wrote: I think it should have been a restart for Artosis/Slush as anyone could d/c once in a while. Anyway you could say it's luck, but sometimes it's your internet provider.
Another point is that as we all have many pc's at home we can watch the Stream at the same time as participants play and they can just pretend that they're scouting :DD while they see the whole view + comments
Regame when there is no clear winner. This game there was a clear winner.. like crystal clear.
It doesn't matter, if you're better you'll win the second time as well.
That's not true on many levels. Besides the mental state, regaming a game you won basically means the opponent just got a free lesson in your build and play. This could potentially make it easy for him to "counter" you the next game.
If you allow a bad call to rattle you so easily, you need to evaluate how well you handle such things.
Athletes have to deal with bad calls all the time.
I would be more sympathetic for Artosis if it weren't for the same issue in the ro16 in game 2 versus day. You can't just have pc problems and cause drama every round. It's really bad for the tournament. Obviously if Slush went on to win his next to series against the best players in the tourney then he deserved to win.
On May 09 2010 09:44 TaKemE wrote: There is not much the judges can do when Slush wants a rematch when Artosis was the one who DCed.
You can tell from the chat between Artosis and SLush, that Slush knew he lost but he still wanted to rematch.
The danger is that if you give Artosis the win there, people are going to start DCing when they sense they have a pretty good lead so they dont have to risk finishing the game off, and then arguing "just give me the win like you did with Artosis, I was ahead anyways". Its just going to be a bad precedent to set.
This is why the TOURNEY ADMINS did not necessarily make the worst decision.
It was Slush who should have taken the honorable route and conceded his loss.
On May 09 2010 14:08 Gescom wrote: I would be more sympathetic for Artosis if it weren't for the same issue in the ro16 in game 2 versus day. You can't just have pc problems and cause drama every round. It's really bad for the tournament. Obviously if Slush went on to win his next to series against the best players in the tourney then he deserved to win.
Thats the other thing: its Artosis' responsibility to maintain a working computer or work with his page file so he doesn't have that paged memory pool problem.
And also one of the reasons that maybe its not so great an idea to run money tournaments during a beta when there are still lots of technical glitches
I love all this argument about "clear lead", despite seeing quite a few SC:BW and even SC2 games where a "Clear win" blew up in the person's face due to a severe misclick. It's VERY difficult to be a guaranteed win when taken out of a vacuum, and considering all circumstances. That's part of what makes Starcraft Starcraft. It's not played in a vacuum, things happen.
On May 09 2010 17:08 BluApex wrote: ask and you shall recieve: [url blocked]
It was from the artosis post earlier, same file he uploaded.
Thanks for that.
Very bad luck for Artosis, If only his comp had held out for that last battle very tough call to make for the refs at the time though I don't envy their position at all. While I wouldn't blame Artosis for being angry at the time (same thing just happened to me in a ladder match and it really sucks balls) I hope that he has the maturity to make up with EvilTeletubby, Kennigit and the other refs when he's had a chance to cool off.
As for Slush - yeah the sportsmanlike thing to do would be to have given up the loss but the nature of pro sports is not that way inclined and if he didn't watch the replay he might have still thought he had a fighting chance and it's perfectly understandable to default it to ref's call.
It's not that refs didn't understand the situation in that game, it's the external factors such as Slush saying he thought he had a chance and the fact that it was Artosis who disconnected which impacted their decision. A lot of debate went into the decision. Upon being informed of the decision Artosis' response was to insult all the refs claiming they were all too stupid or bad to understand how over it was. He refused to listen when it was explained that they were simply unwilling to reward a disconnect for any reason unless the other player conceeded. Artosis isn't obliged to agree with that call but he is obliged to follow it. His refusal to even listen to what the refs were saying and instead just keep calling everyone idiots delayed the tournament considerably and that is unacceptable. The refs agreed Artosis had the game won but the externalities were judged to take priority.
On May 09 2010 08:16 DeMusliM wrote: HuK's use of voidray has been pretty poor in all of the games hes used them, i mean he had 2 void rays sat killing refinery scvs without charge, that could of done SOOOOOOOO much more damage if he just charged up on the cc for 5 secs - quite a big blunder
like ive stated before my cpu is completely shit and i dont want to make excuses or nething but it does hinder my ability to play at times (1 gig of ddr1 ram). and it doesnt help that im horrible with cpus
On May 09 2010 08:40 Liquid`NonY wrote: lol @ huk saying well played, what an asshole!
? i wasnt being an asshole ? not trying to bad mannered or nething? dont get why u wont get off my dick
I think Nony was just joking.
well it is humorous but i meant what i said. louder was way ahead after killing the warp prism + 2 immortals and then he blew the game, said he fucked up, and huk's response is to say wp. if he actually means what he says with his wp bullshit, then it was a total asshole thing to say. could be he just hits enter wp enter enter gg enter like a fucking robot. anyway, yeah, this event lost credibility because of the artosis/slush thing.
The event lost credibility? I see things a differently....
As far as I'm concerned, Artosis lost credibility for freaking out and acting like a child. As Panzer said, even if it was a bad call, take it like a pro and move on.
And the tournament admins gained credibility for sticking to their guns and not letting Artosis proclaim himself the victor after dropping and then BM'ing....
Anyway just want to point out that "the event losses credibility" is not a necessary reading (or even the best reading, imo) of the Artosis/Slush controversy.
you just lost credibility
Mature dude, mature. Great to see senior members setting a good example
You are obviously new to the internet sir. Please read up on internet sarcasm.
no offense, but this just made your argument not so good
I think he's saying that at the time the refs made the call because the rules said a DC couldn't be awarded a win unless the loser concedes defeat. So even though Artosis had won, they could not award him the win without breaking their own rules.
This flies in the face of what Nazgul had said in the other thread. Although there were no rules for players posted publicly so we don't know who is right or who is wrong with regards to what the rules say.
On May 09 2010 22:54 sLiniss wrote: Wow, I wasn't able to watch, but DANGGG who is this Slush guy? I want to see his replays! Glad to see a Zerg at the top!
makes u wonder if people are this cut throat about winning a 300 dollar tourney, why wouldn't they just listen to the stream to gain an additional advantage. I know some of the good mannered players wouldn't, but what about ones that aren't.
On May 09 2010 17:08 BluApex wrote: ask and you shall recieve: [url blocked]
It was from the artosis post earlier, same file he uploaded.
i'm sad i was not around to see this tourny. sadly its such a huge pickle. I dont think anyone else in artosis' position would have acted any differently. That game was his. sounds like TL has to many opinions on their ref staff :X . this should have been a clearer decision. oh well, mistakes are always made. Props for TL for coming out and making a statement. i am sure Artosis ( once cooled off ) will ( and should ) do something similar.
On May 09 2010 18:48 KwarK wrote: It's not that refs didn't understand the situation in that game, it's the external factors such as Slush saying he thought he had a chance and the fact that it was Artosis who disconnected which impacted their decision. A lot of debate went into the decision. Upon being informed of the decision Artosis' response was to insult all the refs claiming they were all too stupid or bad to understand how over it was. He refused to listen when it was explained that they were simply unwilling to reward a disconnect for any reason unless the other player conceeded. Artosis isn't obliged to agree with that call but he is obliged to follow it. His refusal to even listen to what the refs were saying and instead just keep calling everyone idiots delayed the tournament considerably and that is unacceptable. The refs agreed Artosis had the game won but the externalities were judged to take priority.
Good that some people remain sensible.
And after all its like in soccer/football or most other sports-games: Its the referees decision.
I hate to be the noobie responding to everything, and personally I don't feel strongly one way or the other, but I do think the right decision was made. And the mature thing to do is to go along with the referees and get back to the game, not getting hung up and whining about the past. It's the same in any real sport. A call is a call, the ref has the final word and if you think it's a bad call, so what? Get back in the game and make it right by winning despite the setback.
It's not like they awarded Slush a free win due to his opponent disconnecting, which could quite conceivably have been the rule.
The whole reason for playing more than 1 game is to determine the better overall player in a series of matches, and then send the better player on to the next round.
If one player is only good for 3 games and the other lasts 4 or more, how can you say the first player is better? Especially when their focus is so fragile that they play badly in a neutral rematch and lose to a rush.
On May 09 2010 10:02 disco wrote: And ofcourse the mental setback by having to regame a win doesn't mean anything.
If you get so setback by having to replay a win, how does that mean someone is the better player? Because they can win when the conditions are perfect? But even if they blow up and get angry and play badly after that, they're still a better player? How so?
On May 09 2010 10:05 Azarkon wrote: That's not true on many levels. Besides the mental state, regaming a game you won basically means the opponent just got a free lesson in your build and play. This could potentially make it easy for him to "counter" you the next game.
And why didn't you learn from HIS play and possibly adapt your strategy to a more effective one? Or anticipate the counter to your original strat and plan for it.
I don't get why you should get a free pass just because you could win once, but can't adapt your strategy to your opponent when he counters. How is that good play? SC is all about countering your opponent better than he counters you, if you can't do that more than once, do you deserve to win?
Not sure how Artosis bitching would have held up the tournament lol. Obviously he would disagree with the decision. If the decision was made the tournament could have continued no matter how much Artosis objected.
After seeing the replay, I think Artosis basically had the game, but if the refs decided in favor of slush, let it be... Artosis was the winner of this match, IMO.
I understand the reasons why he was complaining so much and I agree with him. Slush is not a bad zerg at all, it's quite the opposite in fact, so TL-I have not lost it's brilliantism.
Thank you TL for this wonderful tournament. Can't wait for the other reps! :D
are all the vods up? i cant figure out where the heck all the vods are. the nevake playlists are all jumbled up from the previous TLI vods and the new TLI vods being incomplete from what I can see. i couldn't find artosis vs day9 anywhere.. djwheats ustream videos have zillions of videos from all sorts of games as well. is there any single page to find the complete vods from THIS TLI?
On May 10 2010 04:49 fant0m wrote: I hate to be the noobie responding to everything, and personally I don't feel strongly one way or the other, but I do think the right decision was made. And the mature thing to do is to go along with the referees and get back to the game, not getting hung up and whining about the past. It's the same in any real sport. A call is a call, the ref has the final word and if you think it's a bad call, so what? Get back in the game and make it right by winning despite the setback.
It's not like they awarded Slush a free win due to his opponent disconnecting, which could quite conceivably have been the rule.
The whole reason for playing more than 1 game is to determine the better overall player in a series of matches, and then send the better player on to the next round.
If one player is only good for 3 games and the other lasts 4 or more, how can you say the first player is better? Especially when their focus is so fragile that they play badly in a neutral rematch and lose to a rush.
On May 09 2010 10:02 disco wrote: And ofcourse the mental setback by having to regame a win doesn't mean anything.
If you get so setback by having to replay a win, how does that mean someone is the better player? Because they can win when the conditions are perfect? But even if they blow up and get angry and play badly after that, they're still a better player? How so?
On May 09 2010 10:05 Azarkon wrote: That's not true on many levels. Besides the mental state, regaming a game you won basically means the opponent just got a free lesson in your build and play. This could potentially make it easy for him to "counter" you the next game.
And why didn't you learn from HIS play and possibly adapt your strategy to a more effective one? Or anticipate the counter to your original strat and plan for it.
I don't get why you should get a free pass just because you could win once, but can't adapt your strategy to your opponent when he counters. How is that good play? SC is all about countering your opponent better than he counters you, if you can't do that more than once, do you deserve to win?
Because some strategies only work the first time you use them. Imagine if LzGamer knew about the rock blinking trick that Nony used against him in the TL vs. EG match, beforehand. Would it still have worked against him? I doubt it.
The winning player typically loses significantly more in a rematch for the simple reason that he exposes his winning strategy, whereas the losing player only exposes a strategy that does not work.
In this particular case, I guess Artosis's argument would be that he exposed a critical piece of information to Slush during the game he won: his strength in macro play. Consequently, he predicted that Slush would likely cheese him the next game with one of two strategies (hidden spire or speedlings). Lo and behold, Slush did cheese, but used a 9-pool instead of the two Artosis predicted.
EPT
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