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HDH Invitational #1 - Page 290

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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SureYouCan
Profile Joined May 2010
United States38 Posts
May 23 2010 21:46 GMT
#5781
He gave up because you saw the same things I saw. Without forcefield in the earlier games white-ra got out microed and out macroed. There's no way you can look at the games and think Idra isnt the better player. There's also no way you can look at the games and think there was ANYTHING Idra could do at that point to change the fact that White-ra was killing off a 200/200 pop zerg army WITHOUT LOSING MORE THAN 10-20 POP HIMSELF. Not because White-Ra was a better player, or more skilled. But simply because he had remembered that he could smart cast forcefields. Plain and simple. There's no way you can watch those games and not think something needs to happen to forcefield, and allowing massive units to trample it isn't the fix.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
May 23 2010 21:46 GMT
#5782
Dont you guys think, that Idra`s crazy macro is backfiring a bit at him? He maxed out so fast, but half of his limit is drones and queens.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
May 23 2010 21:46 GMT
#5783
On May 24 2010 06:44 ChickenLips wrote:
To all the people with 2k++ posts:

Why were the games bad? Care to elaborate?

I personally didn't see any mind-boggling play, but still think that the games were exciting to watch.


I feel the same way. Maybe not the best games I've ever seen, but still very exciting.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
hefty
Profile Joined January 2005
Denmark555 Posts
May 23 2010 21:47 GMT
#5784
On May 24 2010 06:44 nihlon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2010 06:42 hefty wrote:
Thanks for a good tournament.

I have to say though, that HD and husky could be a bit more respectful towards the players. They talked a lot about IdrA's "rage quit", although he only did that one game. Rest of the time he was acting rather graciously, yet it was called "rage quitting" again in the last game.

Commentators can be biased as well, sure, but they seemed to thrive on IdrA's misfortune.


They react that way when most players do that, you can watch some of their YT vids. I don't think they are trying to be disrespectful, although it's easy to see it that way.


Ah, yes, come to think of it I remember husky doing that. You are probably right.

Perhabs I put to much into this. I think I just like a more neutral commentator style better.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
May 23 2010 21:47 GMT
#5785
On May 24 2010 06:43 Zarahtra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2010 06:35 Jibba wrote:
On May 24 2010 06:32 Zarahtra wrote:
whitera had somewhat of an advantage going into that fight

Whitera had a huge advantage, just being himself and on Steppes. His build was perfect for how Zerg need to play against him on that map.

Yeah, but my point was more on the "mental level", idra couldn't afford to loose to cheese like whitera can do so horribly well, so he seems to have felt compelled to hold back to 1 base, while whitera knowing idra just as well seemed to be sure idra wouldn't cheese him and just FEed and made idra have to do some aggression to stay in the game.

Yeah, I'm saying that advantage wasn't 'somewhat', it was huge.

He had to prepare for zealot pressure and Whitera knew it, so did the opposite. If anything, I think it shows that pre-set map pools with Blizzard maps is a bad idea.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
May 23 2010 21:47 GMT
#5786
Force Fields are too strong, and I'm a Protoss player.
They need to be nerfed, because blocking off 100 supply from attacking with a few sentries is pretty imbalanced.
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
SureYouCan
Profile Joined May 2010
United States38 Posts
May 23 2010 21:47 GMT
#5787
There is no reason a t1.5 caster should be able to change map terrain in a game where map balance and layout is SO IMPORTANT. Horrible Horrible idea.
Immersion_
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom794 Posts
May 23 2010 21:48 GMT
#5788
Post Patch 13, I wonder how Mass Ultras would have fared against that
http://www.twitch.tv/sybar1te Sybarite#2581 - add me for Heroes games. .Play Hots and Overwatch currently. Feel free to add.
DevAzTaYtA
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Oman2005 Posts
May 23 2010 21:48 GMT
#5789
i was hoping to see idra do some well-timed drops in that metalopolis game like he did vs nony. such a huge early/mid game advantage that he squandered by attack moving into the protoss ball of death. still though, great force fields by white-ra in that game and the one on blistering sands.
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
May 23 2010 21:49 GMT
#5790
Also, seeing as how he saw White-Ra expand so aggressively, Idra could've either done overlord/nydus drops in White-Ra's main or take his own 4th/5th much faster to secure that much n needed gas for faster broods rather than maxing out so early with useless roach/hydra vs. White-Ra's composition.
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
May 23 2010 21:49 GMT
#5791
On May 24 2010 06:46 mdb wrote:
Dont you guys think, that Idra`s crazy macro is backfiring a bit at him? He maxed out so fast, but half of his limit is drones and queens.

Yeah, that's exactly what i thought when i saw metalopolis game. I just couldn't understand why didn't he abuse his eco and didn't attack everytime he had 200/200 to abuse zerg's awesome ability to reinforce very quickly. Instead he waited for W-R to almost catch up in supply and charged into very bad position.
lolreaper
Profile Joined April 2010
301 Posts
May 23 2010 21:49 GMT
#5792
On May 24 2010 06:36 SureYouCan wrote:
People are talking about "epic infestor blocks with forcefields" rofl. He cast 10 forcefields across an entire choke. You really think he was specifically saying "OK I NEED TO MICRO THESE FORCEFIELDS TO STOP INFESTORS FROM COMING IN"? No, he was abusing the fact that he had a t1.5 unit that could change map terrain and block off 80% of an entire zerg army from attacking. He didn't give a damn if there were infestors there. He spam clicked across the choke and won a fight he should have had no chance in.

maybe get a fucking brain and dont 1a well positioned protoss army
sen played vs ra the same day as hdh finals and managed to win
droping into ra's main and pushing exp simultaneously was way better idea than what idra did
nemahsys
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada457 Posts
May 23 2010 21:50 GMT
#5793
On May 24 2010 06:46 SureYouCan wrote:
He gave up because you saw the same things I saw. Without forcefield in the earlier games white-ra got out microed and out macroed. There's no way you can look at the games and think Idra isnt the better player. There's also no way you can look at the games and think there was ANYTHING Idra could do at that point to change the fact that White-ra was killing off a 200/200 pop zerg army WITHOUT LOSING MORE THAN 10-20 POP HIMSELF. Not because White-Ra was a better player, or more skilled. But simply because he had remembered that he could smart cast forcefields. Plain and simple. There's no way you can watch those games and not think something needs to happen to forcefield, and allowing massive units to trample it isn't the fix.



there was no need for idra to engage that army where he did, and he lost b/c of it. he didnt lose b/c ff is imba. no matter how many words you type in caps you're still dead wrong.
DJ Wheat, if you read this, plz get Lo3 back on itunes stat!
SureYouCan
Profile Joined May 2010
United States38 Posts
May 23 2010 21:50 GMT
#5794
There was nothing remotely "great" about those forcefields. That's what makes it so infuriating. Are you telling me that you couldnt train a monkey to smart cast forcefields across an entire choke in the space of 2-3 seconds?
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46670 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 21:51:03
May 23 2010 21:50 GMT
#5795
On May 24 2010 06:42 hefty wrote:
Thanks for a good tournament.

I have to say though, that HD and husky could be a bit more respectful towards the players. They talked a lot about IdrA's "rage quit", although he only did that one game. Rest of the time he was acting rather graciously, yet it was called "rage quitting" again in the last game.

Commentators can be biased as well, sure, but they seemed to thrive on IdrA's misfortune.


Apparently you've never heard of Idra before, and what he's best known for:

Being really good at StarCraft, and being incredibly bad-mannered. It was incredibly surprising to EVERYONE that he announced "gg" before leaving the first, third, and fourth games he lost to WhiteRa. He almost never does that. He's traditionally known for whining about losses and certain builds (like cheeses/rushes) and simply leaving games without telling his opponent "gg". Everyone busts him for it, because it's not a good-mannered thing to do. That doesn't make him a bad player (obviously), but he deserves to be made fun of when he portrays bad manners 99% of the time. He has a reputation.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
May 23 2010 21:50 GMT
#5796
On May 24 2010 06:46 SureYouCan wrote:
He gave up because you saw the same things I saw. Without forcefield in the earlier games white-ra got out microed and out macroed. There's no way you can look at the games and think Idra isnt the better player. There's also no way you can look at the games and think there was ANYTHING Idra could do at that point to change the fact that White-ra was killing off a 200/200 pop zerg army WITHOUT LOSING MORE THAN 10-20 POP HIMSELF. Not because White-Ra was a better player, or more skilled. But simply because he had remembered that he could smart cast forcefields. Plain and simple. There's no way you can watch those games and not think something needs to happen to forcefield, and allowing massive units to trample it isn't the fix.


Have you watched SC1? What if I out-macro a Terran, he is taking expansions and turtling because he knows he is behind, and I just attack move in to a choke? The Terran would demolish the Protoss army and lose mines and close to no units, it's the same situation. To say Idra couldn't have done anything different shows that you don't know what you're even talking about. Why people like you feel the need to make an excuse for why Idra lost? He lost because he attacked in stupid fashion, it's the same if I was winning all game but threw my army away by attacking stupidly in to a Terran choke.

White-Ra didn't win that game because he is a genius, but he did know that he needed to fight Idra somewhere advantageous and Idra chose to follow him in to the perfect spot for White-Ra to fight, what is so hard to understand? Just because Idra was playing better up to that point doesn't mean that it should excuse a colossal mistake late game.

If you want to make the argument that something needs to change, then I could argue the same thing for SC1. "How come I cannot blindly and stupidly attack this army and win?" Are you serious?
CScythe
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada810 Posts
May 23 2010 21:51 GMT
#5797
On May 24 2010 06:49 lolreaper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2010 06:36 SureYouCan wrote:
People are talking about "epic infestor blocks with forcefields" rofl. He cast 10 forcefields across an entire choke. You really think he was specifically saying "OK I NEED TO MICRO THESE FORCEFIELDS TO STOP INFESTORS FROM COMING IN"? No, he was abusing the fact that he had a t1.5 unit that could change map terrain and block off 80% of an entire zerg army from attacking. He didn't give a damn if there were infestors there. He spam clicked across the choke and won a fight he should have had no chance in.

maybe get a fucking brain and dont 1a well positioned protoss army

Any position is "well positioned" when you can create a fucking wall wherever you want.
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
May 23 2010 21:51 GMT
#5798
The metalopolis game White Ra did something smart that the commentators didn't explain. Instead of trying an early timing push, White Ra just took his half of the map. This forced IdrA to be more aggressive because he was already maxed, and forced a battle on White Ra's side with no creep.

To those saying IdrA should have attacked somewhere else where he couldn't abuse forcefields... What game are you watching? Where on metalopolis could he possibly attack where forcefields couldn't block him off? Every place on metalopolis can be closed off with 10 force fields.

Also, when a player types GG, it doesn't mean he rage quits. He didn't "rage quit" in the last game, he rage quit on metalopolis which is understandable. If you have ever played a competitive game of SC in your life, the worst feeling is when you feel you are outplaying them, are far ahead, and then lose. Saying gg or not saying gg isn't a big deal for the commentators to stress over, he is going to be pissed off either way.

Also, really annoying to hear bias in the commentators. IdrA's play was much cleaner, but White Ra had great timing and game sense.
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
hydraden
Profile Joined April 2010
United States719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-23 21:53:03
May 23 2010 21:52 GMT
#5799
Idra needs to see vods of Sen beating white-ra.

What sen did are drops, and attacking several places at the same time.
Even with a smaller economy, sen won the match.
That's how zerg can win protoss in late game, not macro.

nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
May 23 2010 21:52 GMT
#5800
On May 24 2010 06:47 hefty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 24 2010 06:44 nihlon wrote:
On May 24 2010 06:42 hefty wrote:
Thanks for a good tournament.

I have to say though, that HD and husky could be a bit more respectful towards the players. They talked a lot about IdrA's "rage quit", although he only did that one game. Rest of the time he was acting rather graciously, yet it was called "rage quitting" again in the last game.

Commentators can be biased as well, sure, but they seemed to thrive on IdrA's misfortune.


They react that way when most players do that, you can watch some of their YT vids. I don't think they are trying to be disrespectful, although it's easy to see it that way.


Ah, yes, come to think of it I remember husky doing that. You are probably right.

Perhabs I put to much into this. I think I just like a more neutral commentator style better.


I think a mix of the styles would work pretty well. In real sport commentaries you usually have one that does the screaming and one that is icy cool and keeps it real. Once they get more experience with the game mechanics I can see them turning into a pretty good commentator duo.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
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