EPTAre there any other Terran openers that can hold this rush? Would reactor cyclone be able to hold it?
The LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 84
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Are there any other Terran openers that can hold this rush? Would reactor cyclone be able to hold it? | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On December 26 2017 04:29 MockHamill wrote: Against a 1-base ravager rush I always go 1-1-1 with bunker, tank and banshee. This typically works. Are there any other Terran openers that can hold this rush? Would reactor cyclone be able to hold it? I 19 scout so I see it early then open 1-1-1 (all without add-ons) into bunker (with marines and repair), cyclone, medivac. With good control you can kill off the roach / ravager with the medivac / cyclone and your opponent has no potential to transition out since you can immediately put on pressure. I find tank / banshee to be not as effective personally because you can't put on the same level of pressure after holding the attack, so your opponent has the option of transitioning out, but it also requires much better control to hold in this way. | ||
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
On December 24 2017 00:02 Poopi wrote: Is there a solution to TvP? I can't beat any protoss atm I've been experimenting (with some success) with biomech compositions, namely my objective is to get on 3-4 bases with 2 starports (1 TL, 1 reactor), 2 factories (2 TL) and as much racks I can afford. And I crank out 2 tanks, 3 libs and bio at all times (I produce libs really quickly, after only 3-4 medivacs). Only very light harrass (1 drop, 1 lib, etc). Basically my gameplan is to open greedy and play greedy and defensive with tanks until having established 3-4 bases. Then I go attack and try to kill the toss's 4th base. Generally at this point P's are still on ground based army, slowly transitioning into air and ~8 tanks seriously wreck shit up on the ground. Also, without the 4th, their eventual air transition is way less potent. Adding a couple of thors, few vikings with the marines can be enough to close it out. So basically, I've gone from pure bio (or 4M) with lots of drops and harrass into greedy, defensive biomech with a push aimed at denying a 4th, then leapfrogging forward with tanks and libs to their 3rd/nat/main. Again, I'm still experimenting, this is not final and I haven't faced many different reactions from the P yet. But basically, if the P plays blind and goes stalker/collo he's dead, if he goes immortal/chargelot/storms it's more dicey. Obviously, with a tank army, if you're caught unsieged you're dead. Edit: FYI I play in diamond 2, ~4200 MMR, have tried this style out for ~5-10 games (it's a work in progress), won most of them (but not all), mostly on the back of the protoss not scouting/reacting properly. | ||
Poopi
France13018 Posts
But I'll try it on NA to test it (around 5k mmr) and tell you how it goes. Right now I do relatively ok with the same composition as you mention (bio medivac tank liberator) but I do it on 2 bases, I attack (while taking a third at that time) with 2 medics / 2 libe and probably 3 tanks, stim/cs/1-0 on the protoss third, around 7mn15 from my base (around 7mn45 / 8mn on the protoss side depending on the map) I gotta try these builds instead of bashing my head against the new shield battery thing, my good old 4rax marine won't cut it on this patch :D. | ||
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
On December 28 2017 06:30 Poopi wrote: I think it's too slow for master+ MMR, if you play that defensive the protoss has the time to go air or something else. But I'll try it on NA to test it (around 5k mmr) and tell you how it goes. Right now I do relatively ok with the same composition as you mention (bio medivac tank liberator) but I do it on 2 bases, I attack (while taking a third at that time) with 2 medics / 2 libe and probably 3 tanks, stim/cs/1-0 on the protoss third, around 7mn15 from my base (around 7mn45 / 8mn on the protoss side depending on the map) I gotta try these builds instead of bashing my head against the new shield battery thing, my good old 4rax marine won't cut it on this patch :D. I'd be very interested in your results if you try it out. You're probably right about it being too slow, I was thinking about maybe getting more factories and less barracks and cranking out a few helions for harrass. The only thing that keeps me back is that when the protoss scouts a lot of factories, he assumes mech and goes straight to air and there's not much you can do without a healthy marine count (that you don't have if you go for helions). Maybe mines ? I don't know... With my current biomech composition, protoss generally stay on the ground for longer since it's still bio based and I can punish him if he goes into air too early... Finding an ideal solution isn't easy, but then again that's what I like about starcraft :-) Also, I'm interested in your 2 base version, would you care to send me a replay or even just build notes (if you have them) please ? | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
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Athelas
Poland15 Posts
Guys, for TvP just watch Innovation vs Creator from GSL group A. Innovation was outclassing his opponent, but builds seems really solid (although game 2 2:40 3rd CC scares me a bit). Biggest thing to take out of his games is constant reactor mine production after factory is free. They build really fast. | ||
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ArtyK
France3144 Posts
If dts he has to come up the main ramp and gg out because theres a wall you can repair :p If oracle you don't even need an ebay to disrupt your build early because you only need to defend one mineral line and he can't shade in with adepts. And vs other allins that means you don't outright die because you're greedily trying to protect 2 base in an open area vs the cheesiest of the cheeses. You have the power of lifting your main base, might as well abuse it and retake the natural once the opponent expands himself. Just make sure to keep tabs on possible ninjas bases. | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
On January 08 2018 19:15 Athelas wrote: I think 4 minutes. But oracle can hit earlier, so vs double gas 1 base protoss i would get ebay earlier. Guys, for TvP just watch Innovation vs Creator from GSL group A. Innovation was outclassing his opponent, but builds seems really solid (although game 2 2:40 3rd CC scares me a bit). Biggest thing to take out of his games is constant reactor mine production after factory is free. They build really fast. There is more to it than that  INnoVation cut workers at a certain point to afford off of his 5-1-1 production as well as taking scv's off of his gas so his CC could drop down earlier (Its correct time should be 2:20) Its a build Maru did as well but it was vs Zest in the IEM Qualifiers | ||
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Athelas
Poland15 Posts
Point is, any opening with reasonable (before or right after rax 4 and 5 I mean) 3rd CC can start pumping mines anyway. Or go for all-in version. | ||
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AleXusher
280 Posts
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
On January 08 2018 23:25 AleXusher wrote: How does someone win TvZ mech vs Hive? BL Viper Corruptor is so strong, i see no way beating it. Any help would be really nice. Good micro, hellbats thors tanks Vikings. Make sure that when you engage the army your Vikings are pre-split and your hellbats are in the front tanking for the thors. If they have roach hydra and you siege up your tanks make sure you focus fire the roach hydra (Shift attack click through them) so that your tanks do not fire at the hellbats and ultimately the Thors. The thors are going to focus on the broodlords first if they can and the Vikings just need to be split or in a concave. Before going into the fight try to snipe some of the vipers. Fewer Parabombs will make it easier to engage. | ||
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bretfart
114 Posts
I've been seeing a lot of cyclones lately in TvT on stream, so I figured thats the way to go. My build is bad, too many minerals floating. Does anybody have a solid TvT mech build order? Ive used beastyqts mech build, but it kinda sucks against cyclone pushes | ||
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Athelas
Poland15 Posts
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Poopi
France13018 Posts
On December 29 2017 23:27 LoneYoShi wrote: I'd be very interested in your results if you try it out. You're probably right about it being too slow, I was thinking about maybe getting more factories and less barracks and cranking out a few helions for harrass. The only thing that keeps me back is that when the protoss scouts a lot of factories, he assumes mech and goes straight to air and there's not much you can do without a healthy marine count (that you don't have if you go for helions). Maybe mines ? I don't know... With my current biomech composition, protoss generally stay on the ground for longer since it's still bio based and I can punish him if he goes into air too early... Finding an ideal solution isn't easy, but then again that's what I like about starcraft :-) Also, I'm interested in your 2 base version, would you care to send me a replay or even just build notes (if you have them) please ? http://drop.sc/replay/6252496 here for the replay Didn't have time to test your build yet tho | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On January 09 2018 00:19 Ryu3600 wrote: Good micro, hellbats thors tanks Vikings. Make sure that when you engage the army your Vikings are pre-split and your hellbats are in the front tanking for the thors. If they have roach hydra and you siege up your tanks make sure you focus fire the roach hydra (Shift attack click through them) so that your tanks do not fire at the hellbats and ultimately the Thors. The thors are going to focus on the broodlords first if they can and the Vikings just need to be split or in a concave. Before going into the fight try to snipe some of the vipers. Fewer Parabombs will make it easier to engage. I disagree with this. The key is to make 4-5 vikings for reasons I will explain. You do NOT make lots of vikings or you WILL get wrecked by vipers. Go pure thors, make sure you get the +3 armor asap. Make about 10 hellbats and stop there. You dont want any tanks, so sack them. Then go 3 medivacs with widow mine and burrow-speed. So vs corruptor viper broodlord you have: 10-12 hellbats 3 medivacs with 12 mines inside 3-4 vikings all the rest of the supply is thors you want ideally 3/3 on mech but the big priority is +3 armor. 2-3 ravens for the heal is nice but you must cast them behid the thors or they instadie to the corruptors You must engage in as wide open as possible for your thors to fight well. Keep them on the anti-armored antiair attack. Engage and boost medivacs right on the broodlord. Drop mines, burrow, profit. All thors, shift-targeting the broodlords, hellbats clean the broodlings. The 4-5 vikings are the sacrifice for the medivacs to reach the broodlords. Corruptors fire slowly, so the medivacs get through. Profit. I have killed a ridiculous amount of a-move zergs that clump their broodlords like that , because simply they havent seen this before. Thank you TY. | ||
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slit
Spain212 Posts
On January 12 2018 05:54 Psychobabas wrote: TvP I just go yolo defensive mech into mass bc and hope for the best. Master Terran @4700-4800 mmr That's how I was playing back in 2013, and I was a silver player  Desperate times require desperate measures I guess. | ||
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
On January 11 2018 08:51 Poopi wrote: http://drop.sc/replay/6252496 here for the replay Didn't have time to test your build yet tho Thanks for the replay, but I fear you got the wrong game... It is a TvP, but not a single tank has been built during that game (which you lost). | ||
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Poopi
France13018 Posts
On January 12 2018 23:51 LoneYoShi wrote: Thanks for the replay, but I fear you got the wrong game... It is a TvP, but not a single tank has been built during that game (which you lost). Yeah sorry got the wrong one, but it's actually perfect http://drop.sc/replay/6274264 this is the right one.The previous replay is against the same guy on the same map, I tried a mine drop but his early pressure just killed me, so I decided to go for defensive tank into 2base timing push the next time and it worked. I tried your build on NA and I got beaten badly (tried it only two times yet tho, maybe I'm doing it wrong) against 5k MMR NA protosses. The second one effectively got to air before I could kill him, the first one played a weird style with chargelots and DTs, I might have been able to beat him if I didn't play bad (was the first time trying out your build). However, it's so costly in gas that it's hard to upgrade the bio so it doesn't help either. I will try it more. | ||
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