The LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 82

On December 13 2017 00:53 Ryu3600 wrote:
Hey, I haven't really been keeping up with the recent conversations but I figured id try to just explain the current meta for each of the three matchups (TvT, TvZ, and TvP)

Starting out ill go with the drastically most different meta. (Take note I will be explaining the meta off of KR style and I won't include every single depot you need to throw down. Only the important ones, the rest you should know)

TvT: TvT has changed drastically since 4.0. Post 4.0 People would open Double Reaper Cyclone/Hellion into double raven. With the raven changes, it is no longer a strong aggressive unit and more so of a utility/defense unit. However; despite this change whether it is worse or better for Terran another change was made that has created a new mech meta. Today I find that the strongest opener for TvT is to go reactored cyclones off of a Gas First Reaper expo. Typically INnoVation and TY will use this build and even MMA simply because it is efficient. With the buffs to make and cost reduction in their upgrades as well as the full DPS output of the cyclone, reactoring those units out seems to be the optimal thing to open with. The opener is very strong if your opponent skips the cyclones and even better if you sit at home defensively and the enemy doomdrops you. The opener also grabs a very quick 3rd CC that shouldn't face any harm. Now then im sure everyone wants to know an opener for this build. Typically the opener I use is:
Depot -> Gas -> Rax -> Orbital/Reaper -> CC -> Factory/Reactor -> Gas -> Swap fac and rax after reactor is done -> and just make 2x Cyclone -> @3rd and 4th cyclone drop CC then make 5th/6th -> Take 3rd Gas -> @100% 3rd Gas take 4th gas -> Blind Ebay -> If you float above 100 gas w/ cyclones being produced drop a 2nd reactor and a factory. by the time your third orbital is done you want an armory and 3 factories. After that drop a starport and aim to go into 0-5-1 with 1-2 armories (preference)

Now then as for TvZ, I will be telling you about the "Bio" Meta. I will explain the bio meta because I believe a lot more people are interested in learning bio more so than they are Mech. (But just in case the mech opener is just hellions into double thor drop typically) Now then the way I like to open TvZ is I like to open for quick thirds off of Hellions. The build I will be explaining is the Hellion Liberator build. It is similar to hellion banshee but a bit easier to control and less committing. The build will open: Depot -> Gas -> Rax -> Reaper/Orbital -> CC -> Factory/Reactor -> Gas -> (Swap Factory onto Reactor) -> Starport -> 2x Hellion (Up to 2) -> Rax Techlab/Viking -> 3rd Depot after Viking -> Liberator after Viking/Stim -> CC @400 Minerals -> Finish wall at natural -> 2x Ebay/2x Gas -> After 4 hellions and full wall at natural make factory create a new reactor and throw down 2 rax. One onto the open reactor and one to swap off onto the new reactor building. -> After Liberator Starport Reactor/+1 +1 -> Factory Techlab / 4x Marine 1x Marauder 2x Medivac then drop down your 4th and 5th rax as your third lands (That timing is dependent on you) -> @8:30 Drop 2 Rax and 1-2 facs for 7-2/3-1. The idea is with your timing is to apply early creep control and do some light harass with hellion/lib and clear overlords with Viking. At +1 +1 you want to start dropping and applying damage. At +2 +2 you want to hit a timing with as many tanks and bio you can hit with to do as much damage just before the hive is ready. From there on it's up to you to play the game how you would like.

Now finally TvP: The matchup that I believe right now is a lot harder to win than TvT or TvZ. The reason I believe for this is because of the changes to chronoboost and the timings that protoss is able to hit. But my balance whine aside, I think the ideal goal for Terran is to open 3Rax off of multiprong aggression. Right now the strongest build is a marine hellion 2prong. The idea is to open Rax First and hit with 4-6 Hellions at the natural while dropping 7 marines in the protoss main. Behind this 1-1-1 opener, you transition into 3CC 1Ebay 3-1-1 Production and later 5-1-1. The build order is as follows. Rax -> Gas -> Marine/Orbital -> CC -> Reactor -> Factory -> Gas -> Make 4x Marines/Ebay -> Swap Factory with Rax/Starport -> 1x Medivac 2x Hellion, 1x Marine -> @4-6 Hellions, 7 Marines, 1 Medivac hit the protoss -> Drop 2x Rax then 3rd CC -> Stim/CS -> (1 Reactor 2Techlab) -> 2x Rax -> Aim to hit at +1 +1 -> +2 +1 -> +3 +1. @7:50 Drop 2nd Starport and / or Fusion core / Ghost Academy for Viking/lib/ghost (Situational)

Sorry for the bad format, but this is right now the meta that I've been playing and observing for Terran. The TvT meta is by far the oddest change.. But it is quite fun and I've taken some pretty easy wins off of people who just don't open cyclone or go into bio. For reference I take the meta off of people who are above 6K in Korea, and play at 5.1K on NA.

On December 13 2017 15:43 bretfart wrote:
Hey guys,

I've just tested Liberators against Swarmhosts and they do pretty well against the locusts. So Ive asked myself why we rarely see terrans use them against those pesky shs? Does anybody know the answer?

On December 13 2017 23:52 Ryu3600 wrote:



TY I do explanations and examples like this a lot for the All Things Terran discord

Update: Not sure why it posted a blank sorry about that ^^

On December 14 2017 23:23 Ryu3600 wrote:

Just PM Serendipity (Thats me) and ill send you the replays through discord :D

On December 16 2017 16:45 MockHamill wrote:
In TvZ if you are going mech is there any point of opening hellions instead of defensive tank? Defensive tank into a fast 3rd command center (built inbase) seems more robust.

It is hard to put on an pressure with hellions since Queens tends to deflect everything.

But the largest problem is that opening hellions seems to be an auto loss against baneling busts

I do not think I have managed to hold a single baneling bust with hellions in the last 7 years, but if you open defensive tank (with fast inbase 3rd) you almost always come out ahead.

Also against 1-base roach/ravager defensive tank into banshee holds it most of the time but hellions are close to useless in that scenario.

On December 16 2017 17:08 Frudgey wrote:

It's interesting that you bring this up, because I (almost) always open up reactored Hellion in TvZ. I haven't had problems with Baneling busts (I think with proper structure placement you can be fine - I.E., walling correctly). The difficulties I've had are when they go early roach, or do roach/ravager shenanigans.

I do think Queens can deflect Hellions pretty well, but I like having the Hellions so I can have map presence. Plus, if they do a Zergling heavy defense that's typically good news for you.

I'm like mid-diamond, for whatever it's worth, so I'm not a hot shot player by any stretch of the imagination.

On December 16 2017 17:32 MockHamill wrote:


I am also mid Diamond although my micro is probably lower than that. With a tank and a bunker behind the wall all I have to do is focus down the banelings with the tank and repair the tank and the bunker and i have won the game.

What do you do exactly with the hellions in order to win in this scenario? Because when I have hellions banelings bust down the wall in comes a stream of banelings and zerglings. I try to kite down back to my mineral line but then the banelings connect with my workers, zerlings are everywhere and everything is going downhill. Basically even if I manage to hold the attack I lose lots of workers but in the tank scenario I have very few worker losses.

You mention walling correctly, I have the standard depot-rax-depot wall, do you do anything different from that?

On December 16 2017 18:04 Tzela wrote:


well opening tanks will hard counter basically any allin zerg can do. issue is opening with them vs a zerg who goes macro means that you give all of the map control away. zerg literally needs to build no defense if they scout that with an ovie and by the time you move out on the map they will be sitting there with all their bases saturated and creep halfway across the map. the hellions give you some initiative to scout, force some defense and slow the creep down. they dont really need to roast a bunch of drones to be worth it.

one base baneling bust you need to double up your wall with the 2nd cc, ebays, another bunker - basically anything that isnt a depot or addon
if you are talking about holding a 2 base zerg busting you, it really depends on what build you are doing after your hellions.

Edit: i guess one thing to remember is you cant actually win the macro war vs an equal skilled zerg . terran needs to be the one that slows the zerg down, not the other way around.