EPTThe LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 81
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Hushfieldx
Belgium64 Posts
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
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Hushfieldx
Belgium64 Posts
On December 05 2017 22:42 Ryu3600 wrote: Thanks!4:00 to 6:30 is the timing window for a 3rd base. Earlier in some cases, but never later unless you're like recovering from a cheese/all in. However going earlier is build dependent | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On December 07 2017 15:22 Pursuit_ wrote: Banshee in TvT is a little weaker in this patch imo because of the new cyclone. Especially since reactor cyclone has become a thing TvT. Still a very solid opening overall though. yeah thats been my impression so far, but I've only had time for about 30ish games this season so far though | ||
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Clad
4 Posts
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Weerlig_7
South Africa1 Post
On December 09 2017 00:45 Clad wrote: hello i m plat 1 Terran and i want to know how to improve the macro because i think this is the most important at my level and how do you play the TvT? thx Yea I am also Plat 1 Terran grinding to Diamond , struggling with TvT , Looking for General tips to improve my game, should I memorize builds or not. I am also looking for gaming buddies (Like a gym partner ),so hit me up. Probably the best thing you can do to improve your game  | ||
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ArtyK
France3144 Posts
On December 09 2017 00:45 Clad wrote: hello i m plat 1 Terran and i want to know how to improve the macro because i think this is the most important at my level and how do you play the TvT? thx On December 09 2017 06:58 Weerlig_7 wrote: Yea I am also Plat 1 Terran grinding to Diamond , struggling with TvT , Looking for General tips to improve my game, should I memorize builds or not. I am also looking for gaming buddies (Like a gym partner ),so hit me up. Probably the best thing you can do to improve your game Learning a build is nice to tighten up your play so you don't fall behind in the early game but it doesn't necessarily teach you macro later on. The usual macro advice : - look top right for your money and supply - build depots if needed Terran macro advice : - look at the bottom of your screen after checking top right to make sure all your buildings are producing - practice making units without queuing (only one scv at a time per CC, only 2 marine per reactor rax, etc...) - if you still have money you can add more production/bases Any terran build will force you to do that in the early game, it's all a matter of being able to continue doing it when you have way more stuff later on. Day9's mental checklist is a good watch if you're not familiar with it, old but still relevant. As you weren't very specific on TvT, i'll just say build tanks and marines? :> Outpositioning your opponent is as important as macro in that matchup. Having marines and depots to spot their movement is really useful, as well as saving scans past early game. As for finding people to play with theres always the practice partner thread : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/518148-practice-partner-thread-season-1-2017 It's not very active, so you might wanna try the starcraft reddit discord too. Can also ask opponents after games, if they're mad and don't want a practice partner you just move on but otherwise it's a good way of finding someone of really similar skill level. | ||
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
It's weird how things come and go... | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On December 11 2017 17:53 LoneYoShi wrote: I'm having a surprising amount of success in TvZ with thegood ol' 16 marines drop build. Anyone else in that case ? I'm only playing at diamond level, but there was a time where I couldn't do any damage at all with the initial drop because Zergs new very well how to counter the build (every terran was doing it back then...), but these past weeks it seems like most zergs completely forgot about how to scout/prepare/counter it. It's weird how things come and go... yeah I'm in the same boat, I've actually straight up won a couple games with the first push somehow diamond also | ||
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Tzela
Canada48 Posts
zerg is the only matchup i am building a reaper in right now, but i notice that most pros go double reaper in tvt. is this mandatory? why the second reaper before reactor? i am playing bio and going this build in both tvt and tvp and scouting with 17th scv in all matchups except in tvt il skip the mines and start tanks right away is it safe to go reaper first in tvp to help with scouting now that the oracle has been nurfed? also if i see 2-3 rax reaper cheese do i still go hellions because of the cost and build time or are cyclones stronger? thanks in advance. | ||
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ArtyK
France3144 Posts
On December 12 2017 07:35 Tzela wrote: diamond in hots coming back to the game now that its free. zerg is the only matchup i am building a reaper in right now, but i notice that most pros go double reaper in tvt. is this mandatory? why the second reaper before reactor? i am playing bio and going this build in both tvt and tvp and scouting with 17th scv in all matchups https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK4Trit-MvE except in tvt il skip the mines and start tanks right away is it safe to go reaper first in tvp to help with scouting now that the oracle has been nurfed? also if i see 2-3 rax reaper cheese do i still go hellions because of the cost and build time or are cyclones stronger? thanks in advance. I've been doing double reaper for so long i don't remember why it started but i' guessing you don't want to have 1 vs 2 :p If you make a reaper you want to scout, not defend, but if you lose your single reaper you then lose scvs because your 2 marines at home aren't enough to hold 2 reapers. So either 2 reapers before reactor or reactor marines Oracle nerf doesn't change anything, but you could go reaper first in TvP anyway. Cyclones shut down reapers hard so as long as you dodge grenades and repair it's a win. Just gotta be mindful or where they can enter your main and protect your production so they don't snipe units as they pop out. | ||
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Tzela
Canada48 Posts
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LoneYoShi
France1348 Posts
On December 12 2017 06:12 starkiller123 wrote: yeah I'm in the same boat, I've actually straight up won a couple games with the first push somehow diamond also Yeah, I get to destroy the 3rd quite often now. Surprising, but hey I'm not complaining ! | ||
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BAATT
2 Posts
Im not very good player, im only Diamond 3. And i have a problem. I'm starting to dislike SC2, because of players, not because of the game. I played lately about 18-20 games, where 90% of that games, my opponents played chees. I understead, that it's part of a game, but where macro, expand style games went? I don't remember if chees was from the beggining of sc2, but lately its happening almost every game ! I know, that if I will play better, i can counter that cheesy players. But im angry, that i have to scout, and if i dont see one base/2 gas etc. im done. Im angry that my opponents dont have to scout - because they know from the loading screen that they will allin on me with one base, or something like that. Because my MMR is going down on that kind of games, when i play vs normal macro player, im usually winning, and going back to my MMR level. Is there a chance to avoid all rush/early game engaging as a terran in this patch? Very often i can't even expand agains cheesy player (example hatchery expand zerg on my 3rd base). When ravagers attacks me, i cant hold with bunker, and tanks are not yet in production. All because i went on exp, not on 2gases. I know, i have to learn, but, do you have any nice ideas, how i should play to avoid that losses? Thanks | ||
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ArtyK
France3144 Posts
On December 12 2017 11:19 Tzela wrote: do i go reactor first or build a marine then reactor? I don't go marines so not 100% sure, but i think reactor first or ~5 marines then reactor. If you go marine reactor, the first reaper arrives when you only have one marine so it's not great. On December 12 2017 21:59 BAATT wrote: I know, that if I will play better, i can counter that cheesy players. But im angry, that i have to scout, and if i dont see one base/2 gas etc. im done. Im angry that my opponents dont have to scout - because they know from the loading screen that they will allin on me with one base, or something like that. Because my MMR is going down on that kind of games, when i play vs normal macro player, im usually winning, and going back to my MMR level. Is there a chance to avoid all rush/early game engaging as a terran in this patch? Very often i can't even expand agains cheesy player (example hatchery expand zerg on my 3rd base). When ravagers attacks me, i cant hold with bunker, and tanks are not yet in production. All because i went on exp, not on 2gases. I know, i have to learn, but, do you have any nice ideas, how i should play to avoid that losses? Thanks Ladder always been cheesy, and lotv isn't cheesier than previous expansions. My guess is bad luck on your part and the latest patch making some cheeses stronger like with the new chrono, or more common because zergs dont wanna play lategame vs mech. Your opponents don't have to scout but their strategy is a huge gamble. As terran you have the safest way of defending while expanding because you have walls and your CC can lift. Like you said it's all a matter of learning how to deal with each type of cheese, then it's freewins most of the time. There's no magic answer to every cheese in every matchup, all i can say if you have trouble with them is to scv scout, and use the reaper to check for proxies if your scout no expand. When you lose, watch the replay and check what you could have scouted, then how you reacted and how well you spent your money during the defense. In diamond 3 theres a good chance you don't have enough to hold because you stop producing during fights. That or you lose too much on the first engagement. vs one base don't try to hold on the low ground, just lift your CC and get a bunker at the top of your ramp. Vs ravagers they're gonna kill your wall so what i do is lift the rax in the wall to put it somewhere safe and build a bunker there instead. Build marines constantly and go factory tank as fast as possible. Use 5 scvs to repair the bunker, make sure to dodge the biles. Once the tank is out put it far enough so they can't reach it with biles from the low ground, but close enough that it shoots any unit coming up the ramp. If he ever tries to go past your bunker pull all your scvs to block him. That way they still get shot by the bunker and can't get close enough to bile the tank. Once you have a second tank they can't break you anymore and you have 2 orbitals. All you need to do is keep scanning his expands / drone count and push when you know he's transitionning. | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
Starting out ill go with the drastically most different meta. (Take note I will be explaining the meta off of KR style and I won't include every single depot you need to throw down. Only the important ones, the rest you should know) TvT: TvT has changed drastically since 4.0. Post 4.0 People would open Double Reaper Cyclone/Hellion into double raven. With the raven changes, it is no longer a strong aggressive unit and more so of a utility/defense unit. However; despite this change whether it is worse or better for Terran another change was made that has created a new mech meta. Today I find that the strongest opener for TvT is to go reactored cyclones off of a Gas First Reaper expo. Typically INnoVation and TY will use this build and even MMA simply because it is efficient. With the buffs to make and cost reduction in their upgrades as well as the full DPS output of the cyclone, reactoring those units out seems to be the optimal thing to open with. The opener is very strong if your opponent skips the cyclones and even better if you sit at home defensively and the enemy doomdrops you. The opener also grabs a very quick 3rd CC that shouldn't face any harm. Now then im sure everyone wants to know an opener for this build. Typically the opener I use is: Depot -> Gas -> Rax -> Orbital/Reaper -> CC -> Factory/Reactor -> Gas -> Swap fac and rax after reactor is done -> and just make 2x Cyclone -> @3rd and 4th cyclone drop CC then make 5th/6th -> Take 3rd Gas -> @100% 3rd Gas take 4th gas -> Blind Ebay -> If you float above 100 gas w/ cyclones being produced drop a 2nd reactor and a factory. by the time your third orbital is done you want an armory and 3 factories. After that drop a starport and aim to go into 0-5-1 with 1-2 armories (preference) Now then as for TvZ, I will be telling you about the "Bio" Meta. I will explain the bio meta because I believe a lot more people are interested in learning bio more so than they are Mech. (But just in case the mech opener is just hellions into double thor drop typically) Now then the way I like to open TvZ is I like to open for quick thirds off of Hellions. The build I will be explaining is the Hellion Liberator build. It is similar to hellion banshee but a bit easier to control and less committing. The build will open: Depot -> Gas -> Rax -> Reaper/Orbital -> CC -> Factory/Reactor -> Gas -> (Swap Factory onto Reactor) -> Starport -> 2x Hellion (Up to 2) -> Rax Techlab/Viking -> 3rd Depot after Viking -> Liberator after Viking/Stim -> CC @400 Minerals -> Finish wall at natural -> 2x Ebay/2x Gas -> After 4 hellions and full wall at natural make factory create a new reactor and throw down 2 rax. One onto the open reactor and one to swap off onto the new reactor building. -> After Liberator Starport Reactor/+1 +1 -> Factory Techlab / 4x Marine 1x Marauder 2x Medivac then drop down your 4th and 5th rax as your third lands (That timing is dependent on you) -> @8:30 Drop 2 Rax and 1-2 facs for 7-2/3-1. The idea is with your timing is to apply early creep control and do some light harass with hellion/lib and clear overlords with Viking. At +1 +1 you want to start dropping and applying damage. At +2 +2 you want to hit a timing with as many tanks and bio you can hit with to do as much damage just before the hive is ready. From there on it's up to you to play the game how you would like. Now finally TvP: The matchup that I believe right now is a lot harder to win than TvT or TvZ. The reason I believe for this is because of the changes to chronoboost and the timings that protoss is able to hit. But my balance whine aside, I think the ideal goal for Terran is to open 3Rax off of multiprong aggression. Right now the strongest build is a marine hellion 2prong. The idea is to open Rax First and hit with 4-6 Hellions at the natural while dropping 7 marines in the protoss main. Behind this 1-1-1 opener, you transition into 3CC 1Ebay 3-1-1 Production and later 5-1-1. The build order is as follows. Rax -> Gas -> Marine/Orbital -> CC -> Reactor -> Factory -> Gas -> Make 4x Marines/Ebay -> Swap Factory with Rax/Starport -> 1x Medivac 2x Hellion, 1x Marine -> @4-6 Hellions, 7 Marines, 1 Medivac hit the protoss -> Drop 2x Rax then 3rd CC -> Stim/CS -> (1 Reactor 2Techlab) -> 2x Rax -> Aim to hit at +1 +1 -> +2 +1 -> +3 +1. @7:50 Drop 2nd Starport and / or Fusion core / Ghost Academy for Viking/lib/ghost (Situational) Sorry for the bad format, but this is right now the meta that I've been playing and observing for Terran. The TvT meta is by far the oddest change.. But it is quite fun and I've taken some pretty easy wins off of people who just don't open cyclone or go into bio. For reference I take the meta off of people who are above 6K in Korea, and play at 5.1K on NA. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16087 Posts
On December 12 2017 11:19 Tzela wrote: do i go reactor first or build a marine then reactor? I play reactor first every tvt. You just have to scv scout for proxy reaper because you can't go reactor first vs that. | ||
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Tzela
Canada48 Posts
On December 13 2017 00:53 Ryu3600 wrote: TvT is bio completely non viable in tvt at that elo? | ||
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