@MockHamill, when you go mech what kind of mech units do you use? I also recall you saying that you play at around diamond (or higher) so feel free to disregard my advice.
I only say this because I've had success using Thors (high impact payload) against Liberators. I'm not saying this works every time, but sprinkle in some Thors and they're a little less willing to use their air units against your tanks. I also like sprinkling mines in with my Tanks to try to deter the filthy bio players from running their Marines and Marauders into my Tanks (or dropping them on the Tanks).
I usually have seven factories (Four tech labs and three reactors), for what it's worth. I should also mention that I usually go Hellion Raven in TvT, with three reactored factories, one tech lab factory, and then two starports for Ravens. I try to go into Battlecruisers when I have a bit of a bank.
I also realize that Nightmarjoo gave much different advice (if you could call what I said advice) than I did, so I'd listen to him over than me.
EDIT: Nightmarjoo has MUCH better credentials than I do. Ignore what I said please!
@M0N57R0517Y While Ryu already gave you top drawer advice so that you may Shin-Shoryuken the opposition, you could try Hellion Raven if you're looking for something a little more unorthodox.
That said, I think at your level, I'd focus more on the macro. Obviously work on the other stuff that Ryu mentioned, but I've found that if you have exceptional Macro, you can crush people even when you have bad decision making.
I would also like to stress that what I'm saying could be dubious at best, so feel free to ignore me.
On December 10 2016 07:10 Frudgey wrote: @MockHamill, when you go mech what kind of mech units do you use? I also recall you saying that you play at around diamond (or higher) so feel free to disregard my advice.
I only say this because I've had success using Thors (high impact payload) against Liberators. I'm not saying this works every time, but sprinkle in some Thors and they're a little less willing to use their air units against your tanks. I also like sprinkling mines in with my Tanks to try to deter the filthy bio players from running their Marines and Marauders into my Tanks (or dropping them on the Tanks).
I usually have seven factories (Four tech labs and three reactors), for what it's worth. I should also mention that I usually go Hellion Raven in TvT, with three reactored factories, one tech lab factory, and then two starports for Ravens. I try to go into Battlecruisers when I have a bit of a bank.
I also realize that Nightmarjoo gave much different advice (if you could call what I said advice) than I did, so I'd listen to him over than me.
EDIT: Nightmarjoo has MUCH better credentials than I do. Ignore what I said please!
@M0N57R0517Y While Ryu already gave you top drawer advice so that you may Shin-Shoryuken the opposition, you could try Hellion Raven if you're looking for something a little more unorthodox.
That said, I think at your level, I'd focus more on the macro. Obviously work on the other stuff that Ryu mentioned, but I've found that if you have exceptional Macro, you can crush people even when you have bad decision making.
I would also like to stress that what I'm saying could be dubious at best, so feel free to ignore me.
You make valid points but the race of Terran has always been micro heavy so I find that in TvT you win by making the better decisions as most people would say the matchup is literally chess lmao aside from that I loved the reference!! <3
On December 10 2016 07:10 Frudgey wrote: @MockHamill, when you go mech what kind of mech units do you use? I also recall you saying that you play at around diamond (or higher) so feel free to disregard my advice.
I only say this because I've had success using Thors (high impact payload) against Liberators. I'm not saying this works every time, but sprinkle in some Thors and they're a little less willing to use their air units against your tanks. I also like sprinkling mines in with my Tanks to try to deter the filthy bio players from running their Marines and Marauders into my Tanks (or dropping them on the Tanks).
I usually have seven factories (Four tech labs and three reactors), for what it's worth. I should also mention that I usually go Hellion Raven in TvT, with three reactored factories, one tech lab factory, and then two starports for Ravens. I try to go into Battlecruisers when I have a bit of a bank.
I also realize that Nightmarjoo gave much different advice (if you could call what I said advice) than I did, so I'd listen to him over than me.
EDIT: Nightmarjoo has MUCH better credentials than I do. Ignore what I said please!
@M0N57R0517Y While Ryu already gave you top drawer advice so that you may Shin-Shoryuken the opposition, you could try Hellion Raven if you're looking for something a little more unorthodox.
That said, I think at your level, I'd focus more on the macro. Obviously work on the other stuff that Ryu mentioned, but I've found that if you have exceptional Macro, you can crush people even when you have bad decision making.
I would also like to stress that what I'm saying could be dubious at best, so feel free to ignore me.
I don't have a problem with a 2reactorfact midgame if you're running a style like hellion/raven (which I wasn't tracking was a thing, but if you use it well and attack during your point of strength I can see how it could work), but I don't think I'd recommend going to 3 reactors. Once you add factories I'd stay on 2reactors and pump gas into techlab factories while your hellions make space and whittle down the worker and unit count of your opponent.
Personally when I've tried to contest a bio player gaining air control by using thors on their liberators to stall to regain a viking lead I've gotten shit on. I don't think thors had their new attack last time I tried it, so maybe that makes a difference. It's more effective against a mech player provided your tank count isn't behind before you add the thors. The issue is the thors are totally ineffective against the rest of the bio army and it's tough to fight tank battles without air since you have limited scans.
On December 10 2016 07:10 Frudgey wrote: @MockHamill, when you go mech what kind of mech units do you use? I also recall you saying that you play at around diamond (or higher) so feel free to disregard my advice.
I only say this because I've had success using Thors (high impact payload) against Liberators. I'm not saying this works every time, but sprinkle in some Thors and they're a little less willing to use their air units against your tanks. I also like sprinkling mines in with my Tanks to try to deter the filthy bio players from running their Marines and Marauders into my Tanks (or dropping them on the Tanks).
I usually have seven factories (Four tech labs and three reactors), for what it's worth. I should also mention that I usually go Hellion Raven in TvT, with three reactored factories, one tech lab factory, and then two starports for Ravens. I try to go into Battlecruisers when I have a bit of a bank.
I also realize that Nightmarjoo gave much different advice (if you could call what I said advice) than I did, so I'd listen to him over than me.
EDIT: Nightmarjoo has MUCH better credentials than I do. Ignore what I said please!
@M0N57R0517Y While Ryu already gave you top drawer advice so that you may Shin-Shoryuken the opposition, you could try Hellion Raven if you're looking for something a little more unorthodox.
That said, I think at your level, I'd focus more on the macro. Obviously work on the other stuff that Ryu mentioned, but I've found that if you have exceptional Macro, you can crush people even when you have bad decision making.
I would also like to stress that what I'm saying could be dubious at best, so feel free to ignore me.
I don't have a problem with a 2reactorfact midgame if you're running a style like hellion/raven (which I wasn't tracking was a thing, but if you use it well and attack during your point of strength I can see how it could work), but I don't think I'd recommend going to 3 reactors. Once you add factories I'd stay on 2reactors and pump gas into techlab factories while your hellions make space and whittle down the worker and unit count of your opponent.
Personally when I've tried to contest a bio player gaining air control by using thors on their liberators to stall to regain a viking lead I've gotten shit on. I don't think thors had their new attack last time I tried it, so maybe that makes a difference. It's more effective against a mech player provided your tank count isn't behind before you add the thors. The issue is the thors are totally ineffective against the rest of the bio army and it's tough to fight tank battles without air since you have limited scans.
I'll try the two reactors instead of three and see how that feels. Are you suggesting two reactored factories, two tech lab factories, and then two starports? I can just read your earlier posts as well. I'm sure I'll figure something fun out.
And absolutely Thors are highly ineffective against bio armies. My problem is that I think the collector's edition Thor is the coolest looking unit in the game so I always try to use it, even when common sense dictates otherwise. I think there are much more viable alternatives than Thors, but I'm just saying that I've used their new air to ground mode with success against Liberators. Mag-Lock Cyclones also worked really well against Liberator harassment.
I think in general Thors work much better in smaller scale engagements, and if you want to use them against bio you need a LOT of support, to the point where I think it's better to not use Thors in TvT. Doesn't stop me however.
Entrenched Tank positions are much easier to fight if you have air units, which is why I like Ravens myself. Maybe not the best choice, but I get kicks out of using them so that's what I use. I think everything you said is right on the money, I just happen to have more fun playing less effective play styles, so that's what I go for.
On December 10 2016 07:10 Frudgey wrote: @MockHamill, when you go mech what kind of mech units do you use? I also recall you saying that you play at around diamond (or higher) so feel free to disregard my advice.
I only say this because I've had success using Thors (high impact payload) against Liberators. I'm not saying this works every time, but sprinkle in some Thors and they're a little less willing to use their air units against your tanks. I also like sprinkling mines in with my Tanks to try to deter the filthy bio players from running their Marines and Marauders into my Tanks (or dropping them on the Tanks).
I usually have seven factories (Four tech labs and three reactors), for what it's worth. I should also mention that I usually go Hellion Raven in TvT, with three reactored factories, one tech lab factory, and then two starports for Ravens. I try to go into Battlecruisers when I have a bit of a bank.
I also realize that Nightmarjoo gave much different advice (if you could call what I said advice) than I did, so I'd listen to him over than me.
EDIT: Nightmarjoo has MUCH better credentials than I do. Ignore what I said please!
@M0N57R0517Y While Ryu already gave you top drawer advice so that you may Shin-Shoryuken the opposition, you could try Hellion Raven if you're looking for something a little more unorthodox.
That said, I think at your level, I'd focus more on the macro. Obviously work on the other stuff that Ryu mentioned, but I've found that if you have exceptional Macro, you can crush people even when you have bad decision making.
I would also like to stress that what I'm saying could be dubious at best, so feel free to ignore me.
You make valid points but the race of Terran has always been micro heavy so I find that in TvT you win by making the better decisions as most people would say the matchup is literally chess lmao aside from that I loved the reference!! <3
I think you're absolutely correct. I think once you get high enough, good macro doesn't always cut it, and you need to have good decision making. And like you said, especially in TvT, that's when it sometimes feels like a chess match.
I think where I was coming from is that I think it's easiest for a silver level player to get better by focusing on the macro. I mean he can certainly take games thanks to good decision making, but I just feel that everything will follow once he's obtained the ability to not combo-drop his macro.
I also don't think there's a wrong way to get better - I think if you want to get better you're free to focus on whatever you want. I think you'll just get better by playing the game.
Again, I could be SUPER off kilter with this, so refer to other people about this.
Also happy you enjoyed the reference.
I was really worried that Ryu wasn't going to make it into the new Marvel vs Capcom.
Dunno what might beat it except ghost+raven maybe? It would be pretty tough to micro though. pdd stops interceptor shots right? although there would be so many of them it might take an awful lot.
Obviously you also want to be damaging the P on the way to this comp so you have an advantage when you get there
On December 10 2016 22:08 MrGrizzle wrote: Carrier + storm + disruptor is pretty hardcore.
Dunno what might beat it except ghost+raven maybe? It would be pretty tough to micro though. pdd stops interceptor shots right? although there would be so many of them it might take an awful lot.
Obviously you also want to be damaging the P on the way to this comp so you have an advantage when you get there
Pdd does not absorb interceptor shots.
What beats this is pure Battlecruisers with equal upgrades to the Carriers.
On December 10 2016 22:08 MrGrizzle wrote: Carrier + storm + disruptor is pretty hardcore.
Dunno what might beat it except ghost+raven maybe? It would be pretty tough to micro though. pdd stops interceptor shots right? although there would be so many of them it might take an awful lot.
Obviously you also want to be damaging the P on the way to this comp so you have an advantage when you get there
Pdd does not absorb interceptor shots.
What beats this is pure Battlecruisers with equal upgrades to the Carriers.
Thor, BC, Ghost/Raven The new thor decimates interceptors the yamato's take our carriers and EMP or seekers can do a lot because carriers are super slow and clump
On December 10 2016 22:08 MrGrizzle wrote: Carrier + storm + disruptor is pretty hardcore.
Dunno what might beat it except ghost+raven maybe? It would be pretty tough to micro though. pdd stops interceptor shots right? although there would be so many of them it might take an awful lot.
Obviously you also want to be damaging the P on the way to this comp so you have an advantage when you get there
Pdd does not absorb interceptor shots.
What beats this is pure Battlecruisers with equal upgrades to the Carriers.
Thor, BC, Ghost/Raven The new thor decimates interceptors the yamato's take our carriers and EMP or seekers can do a lot because carriers are super slow and clump
Thors do not kill interceptors fast enough. The Thors will die if you try to attack the interceptors with Javelin missile launchers (the splash attack).
It is much better to switch the Thors to High Impact Payload mode and target fire the Carriers and completely ignore the interceptors.
It is even better to not build Thors at all in TvP.
On December 10 2016 11:47 Ryu3600 wrote: Hey yall random comment idk where to post this but I wanted to started coaching players and I feel like posting it under here is good my info is
Ryu3600#1470 if anyone wants to add me and get help. I don't charge or anything I just enjoy helping people out
On December 10 2016 11:47 Ryu3600 wrote: Hey yall random comment idk where to post this but I wanted to started coaching players and I feel like posting it under here is good my info is
Ryu3600#1470 if anyone wants to add me and get help. I don't charge or anything I just enjoy helping people out
Hey guys! I certainly need some help. I played a fair amount of time during WOL, and was a pretty consistent Master player. I quit the game at the end of HOTS, mostly because I got really annoyed about the TVP matchup. I bought LOTV as soon as it came available, but barely played it.
The thing is, I have a wager match coming in 10 days, against one of my best friends, lol. We were at a birthday party the other night (drinking, of course), and I was teasing him because he never got to masters, even though he's been playing since WOL. One thing lead to another, and we agreed to play a bo3 or bo5 on december 22nd. He plays zerg, and is in diamond (he says he's close to getting promoted).
So, I'm in trouble. I'm super rusty, and have very little idea about the new things in LOTV. On top of that, I can't play much more than maybe 2 hours a day, and some more on the weekends.
I played a few unranked games, and I think I had some mmr left over or something, because I got matched against several diamond and high plat players. To my surprise, it didn't feel THAT bad. At least I didn't have much trouble hitting the hotkeys ands using my control groups. Also, the map pool certainly is a relief for me, as I know most of the maps.
One big issue for me is that in order to optimize my time, I wanted to play only zerg players, but didn't get matched against a lot of them, so I quit a lot of games, and now I'm being matched against gold players.
So, I'd really aprecciate some help from you, my long lost terran brothers. I'm thinking I need some advice about:
Just a few keynotes about relevant things regardind LOTV new stuff/mechanics, especially in TVZ.
A few solid macro builds for TVZ, using MECH, since I've played mech TVZ in WOL and HOTS.
A few allins or timing pushes.
ADVICE ABOUT HOW TO COUNTER THE BO THAT APPARENTLY MY FRIEND DOES IN MOST TVZ: This is maybe one of the most important things for me right now, as he has told me before that he only plays one build, and from what I saw in his match history, it looks like that's the case (and he has a good win ratio with it). This is how the build looks like:
What I've been doing is playing a pretty straight forward mech build, that I saw in this Nathanias video, but it's the same style that I played the most in HOTS:
Basically, I feel comfortable playing a hellions banshee opening, into mech and air in the late game. I think that'd be pretty vanilla mech tvz in HOTS. I realize cyclones and liberators could fit very well in that style, but I'm not familiar with the units just yet.
I could upload some replays tomrrow if you guys want it, but I don't think they're interesting. I actually won most of the tvz games I played (against platinum and diamond players), just macroing and playing hots style.
I apologize about the length of my post, and my terrible english. Any advice would be greatly apreciated, as well as replays, VODS, and especially practice partners (at least for 1 or 2 games, since I'm having trouble finding zerg players).
Basically, I feel comfortable playing a hellions banshee opening, into mech and air in the late game. I think that'd be pretty vanilla mech tvz in HOTS. I realize cyclones and liberators could fit very well in that style, but I'm not familiar with the units just yet.
I could upload some replays tomrrow if you guys want it, but I don't think they're interesting. I actually won most of the tvz games I played (against platinum and diamond players), just macroing and playing hots style.
It seems like you have most of it under control! I've watched Nathanias a lot this week, and he seems to be a pretty good example of high-level Mech play in 3.8. I think Liberators would be helpful, but to my understanding the cyclone re-build made it pretty bad.
Of course, it's also important to remember how much faster you mine out in LOTV, as I could see you trying to play slowly and running out of minable bases very unexpectedly. Good luck beating your friend!
keep in mind that I'm pretty crap at this game, so my advice should be taken very lightly, if at all.
On December 12 2016 14:06 tianGO wrote: Hey guys! I certainly need some help. I played a fair amount of time during WOL, and was a pretty consistent Master player. I quit the game at the end of HOTS, mostly because I got really annoyed about the TVP matchup. I bought LOTV as soon as it came available, but barely played it.
The thing is, I have a wager match coming in 10 days, against one of my best friends, lol. We were at a birthday party the other night (drinking, of course), and I was teasing him because he never got to masters, even though he's been playing since WOL. One thing lead to another, and we agreed to play a bo3 or bo5 on december 22nd. He plays zerg, and is in diamond (he says he's close to getting promoted).
So, I'm in trouble. I'm super rusty, and have very little idea about the new things in LOTV. On top of that, I can't play much more than maybe 2 hours a day, and some more on the weekends.
I played a few unranked games, and I think I had some mmr left over or something, because I got matched against several diamond and high plat players. To my surprise, it didn't feel THAT bad. At least I didn't have much trouble hitting the hotkeys ands using my control groups. Also, the map pool certainly is a relief for me, as I know most of the maps.
One big issue for me is that in order to optimize my time, I wanted to play only zerg players, but didn't get matched against a lot of them, so I quit a lot of games, and now I'm being matched against gold players.
So, I'd really aprecciate some help from you, my long lost terran brothers. I'm thinking I need some advice about:
Just a few keynotes about relevant things regardind LOTV new stuff/mechanics, especially in TVZ.
A few solid macro builds for TVZ, using MECH, since I've played mech TVZ in WOL and HOTS.
A few allins or timing pushes.
ADVICE ABOUT HOW TO COUNTER THE BO THAT APPARENTLY MY FRIEND DOES IN MOST TVZ: This is maybe one of the most important things for me right now, as he has told me before that he only plays one build, and from what I saw in his match history, it looks like that's the case (and he has a good win ratio with it). This is how the build looks like:
What I've been doing is playing a pretty straight forward mech build, that I saw in this Nathanias video, but it's the same style that I played the most in HOTS:
Basically, I feel comfortable playing a hellions banshee opening, into mech and air in the late game. I think that'd be pretty vanilla mech tvz in HOTS. I realize cyclones and liberators could fit very well in that style, but I'm not familiar with the units just yet.
I could upload some replays tomrrow if you guys want it, but I don't think they're interesting. I actually won most of the tvz games I played (against platinum and diamond players), just macroing and playing hots style.
I apologize about the length of my post, and my terrible english. Any advice would be greatly apreciated, as well as replays, VODS, and especially practice partners (at least for 1 or 2 games, since I'm having trouble finding zerg players).
Thank you!
I'm a zerg player, and from what I see about the BO of your friend he plays a cheeky BO. Scouting it is possible with an SCV scout catching a pool before the hatch followed by a RW. As far as I can see from the images, its not a macro oriented BO, rather then an early pokes or even a push (may be he is droning later). First, be aware for lings which can snipe the SCV building the CC (if you build it early on location, say rax, gas, CC, or gas rax CC), second he will come with either roaches or ravagers (probably roaches, as I don't see a second gas, and its a pool gas rather then a gas pool). So make sure you have a tank, a cyclone, or at least a bunker with plenty of marines by this time. The early lair may tell he is going for a muta follow-up (which is the common one of this build). If he doesn't manage to make that much damage with his pokes (lings first, roaches second, probably mutas third), then you are far ahead.
Most terrans build a CC on location and send a reaper to poke, scout and deny a third of the zerg, his build blind counters it as there are no units at home and the terrans just don't invest that much in defense at the early stages of the game.
Hello guys, been trying some mech lately and I struggle a lot against swarmhosts, for example on overgrowth where they can land in your main and destroy your facories...
Any tips against that, composition that doesn't lose to much facing it? Am I forced to go banshee (because it's usually too late).
What's the TvZ meta atm? Because my usual mech doesn't work. Funnily enough, I had something like 75% winrate in TvZ before the viper/hydra nerf, doing an early tank+hellbat push. I'm something like, 1-20 in tvz after patch, counting only the games I've actually tried (I insta-leave TvZ now).
I only managed to win 1 game where I turtled HARD till I had a critical mass of Ravens(what a cancerous unit tbh). The guy didn't make swarmhosts though, so there's that. After (not)dealing with them a couple of games, i usually insta-leave when I see them, mech just doesn't have anything to deal with them. Is turtling to Ravens the only way to win TvZ? If yes, how do you not die to SHs? Is bio the way? From what I've been hearing, because of bane hp and burrow festors, only Byun can make bio work.
On December 13 2016 01:59 bulya wrote: I'm a zerg player, and from what I see about the BO of your friend he plays a cheeky BO. Scouting it is possible with an SCV scout catching a pool before the hatch followed by a RW. As far as I can see from the images, its not a macro oriented BO, rather then an early pokes or even a push (may be he is droning later). First, be aware for lings which can snipe the SCV building the CC (if you build it early on location, say rax, gas, CC, or gas rax CC), second he will come with either roaches or ravagers (probably roaches, as I don't see a second gas, and its a pool gas rather then a gas pool). So make sure you have a tank, a cyclone, or at least a bunker with plenty of marines by this time. The early lair may tell he is going for a muta follow-up (which is the common one of this build). If he doesn't manage to make that much damage with his pokes (lings first, roaches second, probably mutas third), then you are far ahead.
Most terrans build a CC on location and send a reaper to poke, scout and deny a third of the zerg, his build blind counters it as there are no units at home and the terrans just don't invest that much in defense at the early stages of the game.
Really aprecciate it man. That's pretty much what I thought, that his build is a blind counter to a reaper fast expand. I think I'll need to scout with an scv. So, I'm thinking to counter that build, fast expanding and skipping the reaper, bunker up early to hold the lings, and tech to something that counter the roaches. What should be the best option? cyclones, banshees, tanks, liberators? I checked other matches from him, and actually he goes for mutas after the roaches, so I guess getting cyclones or liberators will put me in a good position later in the game.
I still couldnt really try the cyclones. Unfortunately, I played 8 games today, and none of them were zergs.
Anyone up for a couple of games to help me try a few things?
As a bio player, what's the best way to play against Roach Ravager now that we can't lift Tanks anymore? I find my Tanks die really easily to Corrosive Bile now. Been trying to watch Innovation stream but it's difficult to do when I'm at work.
On December 13 2016 01:59 bulya wrote: I'm a zerg player, and from what I see about the BO of your friend he plays a cheeky BO. Scouting it is possible with an SCV scout catching a pool before the hatch followed by a RW. As far as I can see from the images, its not a macro oriented BO, rather then an early pokes or even a push (may be he is droning later). First, be aware for lings which can snipe the SCV building the CC (if you build it early on location, say rax, gas, CC, or gas rax CC), second he will come with either roaches or ravagers (probably roaches, as I don't see a second gas, and its a pool gas rather then a gas pool). So make sure you have a tank, a cyclone, or at least a bunker with plenty of marines by this time. The early lair may tell he is going for a muta follow-up (which is the common one of this build). If he doesn't manage to make that much damage with his pokes (lings first, roaches second, probably mutas third), then you are far ahead.
Most terrans build a CC on location and send a reaper to poke, scout and deny a third of the zerg, his build blind counters it as there are no units at home and the terrans just don't invest that much in defense at the early stages of the game.
Really aprecciate it man. That's pretty much what I thought, that his build is a blind counter to a reaper fast expand. I think I'll need to scout with an scv. So, I'm thinking to counter that build, fast expanding and skipping the reaper, bunker up early to hold the lings, and tech to something that counter the roaches. What should be the best option? cyclones, banshees, tanks, liberators? I checked other matches from him, and actually he goes for mutas after the roaches, so I guess getting cyclones or liberators will put me in a good position later in the game.
I still couldnt really try the cyclones. Unfortunately, I played 8 games today, and none of them were zergs.
Anyone up for a couple of games to help me try a few things?
I guess your terrran friends can help you more here. A single tank on the high ground will scare the roaches so that they will leave (and partially die), a bunker on its own can be enough for the roaches as well as long as it covers not only the front but also part of the mineral line (but I guess you need 2 rax for that). I didn't go for this build in this patch, but I guess in 3.8 a cyclone will counter the roaches as well.
But note that neither a cyclone or a tank will prepare you for the mutas, and you don't have time for a thor to counter the roaches as the roaches will be at your base before the thor is ready. But for mech, thors will be useful vs the mutas (turrets as well).
I didn't manage to play terran mech on this patch, yet, so I can only see it from the zerg point of view. May be your terran friends will help you with how to deal with the 3 roach opener (I'm sure some of them dealt with it, as at least before the patch it was a nice BO even on GM level, although before the patch rarely terran players played mech).
EPT
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