The LotV Terran Help Me Thread - Page 64

On December 24 2016 18:09 MockHamill wrote:
Has anyone got mech to work in TvP?

I have tried two different styles, hellbat/tank/viking and mine/tank/viking. With both compositions I aim to kill them shortly after I have taken my 3rd. I do one big push and try to hit them before they get carriers out.

Now I have gotten much better results when I use widow mines instead of hellbats as they are much more versatile and protect your tanks from adept much better then what hellbats do.

The problem is either my push kills them of they manage to get Carriers out which means I typically lose a few minutes later.

The only way to kill Carriers is with Battlecruicers since Vikings are so vulnerable to splash.

So I have changed my style to trying to play for the long game instead and start to get BCs as soon as I have 3 bases. This means that if they start to mass Carriers I have a decent chance since BCs beat Carriers given equal numbers. The problem is that if they just invest in in ground units instead of Carriers they can just a-move through my 3rd and kill me since the investment in star ports and a few BCs weaken my ground army at that stage in the game.

Unfortunately Protoss do not seem to suffer the same fate, adding a few Carriers do not make the vulnerable since Carriers are a better unit in small numbers, especially since the interceptors mess with your units targeting system.

So what are your thoughts on this? Is it better to to kill them before Carriers or try to go for the BCs? Is there any point to using hellbats instead of mines since hellbats suck so much against adepts? Which upgrades should you prioritize? I always get armour first now in order to be able to fight carriers better but this means the tanks will dish out less damage.

Is there any other mech style that is better in TvP?

On December 25 2016 07:38 Pokebunny wrote:

after you have taken a third and gone up to five rax, make a second factory to produce thors and drilling claws (first fact should be reactor mines). use medivac with boost for thor mobility

On December 24 2016 23:33 Phaenoman wrote:

I really don't understand why ppl just read "Lib nerf" and stop considering it an anti-Muta tool anymore. Before the nerf they absolutely demolished mutas. Now they are a decent counter. Get 6 to 10 libs and watch the muta flock die instantly. Did you even try it? If they go mass muta then libs are more than great. Thors are good as well.

On December 25 2016 15:41 Damien wrote:


Yes I did. I was not whining, just asking. I really tried:

https://www.twitch.tv/br_owl/v/109708555 (this video is in portuguese, but you can understand just watching).


I just guess that libs before the last patch was balanced, since they are slower than mustalisks and terran can't produce fast as zergs.

On December 26 2016 08:03 Lexender wrote:


Good point but it doesn't holds as much for this interaction because both liberators are slower than mutalisk and aren't as manoeuvrable because they have slow accelaration, a very high damage point and awful turning speed.

If you try to move libs you just lose DPS (the same as with cyclones) the only posible micro would be to pull back if you have ground AA, otherwise mutalisk mobility would make any attempt at micro useless.

On September 18 2016 02:31 Nightmarjoo wrote:
If you have Advanced Ballistics and Protoss doesn't have Tempests you can safely attack on 8+ liberators, possibly even with an upgrade deficit.

Once they have 4+ Tempests you need to Turret push with the bulk of your army while getting an appropriate Ghost and Viking count while trading as efficiently as you can with split forces all over the map. Split up your Liberators to add an extra dynamic to drops and/or take advantage of the movement of his forces in response to your drops; but make sure to leave at least 4 Liberators with your main army and Turret wall.

I don't think you should feel like you can't take the game late against Protoss-- Tempests aren't unstoppable even with Storm and Colossi support. You play it very similarly to tvz lategame-- set up a strong defense somewhere important in the middle of the map while projecting your power everywhere else on the map. Don't forget to use Cloak to get good EMPs and/or snipe Observers, and don't forget to use Nukes both to harass and push his army back.



Step 1: execute your build order correctly. You made a bunker against hatch-first 6lings while your reaper was alive, then you made fact before reactor, then you delayed stim with port/reactor. As result your stim research completed a minute later than intended and you had 5 fewer marines with your first two medics.

Then you added rax before ebays and starting 1-1; which is only a problem because you took your 3rd and 4th gas immediately after 3rd cc-- you can support all of your gas needs to include combat shields (which you omitted) and 1-1 on 3gas. So you hamstrung your economy and therefore your production as well.

Your drops are pretty effective this game, but your macro at home is suffering so much it doesn't matter. Taking such quick 4th and 5th bases simultaneously in conjunction with not having enough scvs as is preventing you from maxing and getting an army that can actually defeat the zerg. Your 2-2 isn't even started by the time 3-3 should be complete.

Repeatedly stimming your army when it's not in combat without having any medics cripples your first major push, so while it does do damage you throw away any semblance of momentum or map control you may have had previously.

Your snipes on the corruptors were really good; but you couldn't turn it into an advantage since you had no ground army resulting from not having enough barracks for 3base income, much less 5base.

As the game goes on you start to blunder your ghosts more and more, suiciding them ahead of your army and sniping corruptors when you don't have any liberators.

I don't understand the thors and +3 mech attack; ship attack or vehicle armour both would have served you better.

If you pushed with turrets you'd be able to fight his army much more effectively. The turrets allow your army to safely retreat from both corruptors and ultras-- the latter by physically blocking their pathing.


Repeatedly bming your opponent isn't helping you stay cool, calm, and collected to focus on making good decisions. There are certainly aspects of each race which are easier to execute than other aspects of each race, but ultimately racial balance played no part in this game. You lose because your ability to execute the counter-moves to his tactics and composition are inferior to his. Is 'a' clicking more effective with his army than yours? Sure, but the only reason you stayed in the game as long as you did was because it was much harder for him to kill your repaired-PFs than for you to kill his mining hatcheries. He didn't flame your race for having such strong defense.

In the last seconds of the game you're accusing him of 'a' clicking, but he had just executed a delicate dance of keeping his units out of liberation zones and preventing your ghosts from getting effective snipes off, whereas your final move is to frustratedly 'a' click into his vastly superior army. Everytime your ghosts died in front of your army pointlessly was you 'a' moving.

Instead of looking at the moments in the game where you temporarily held an advantage (before throwing it away with poor play) followed by defeat being the product of his race being easier, look at the fact that you temporarily held an advantage many times and he with great difficulty and patience clawed his way back into the game to ultimately overcome you. You both did good things and both made mistakes, but over the course of the game he made more good moves and fewer mistakes than you, which is why he defeated you and won.

So step 2 is fix your mindset and temper. If you don't want to get called out for acting like a turd, don't act like a turd in your games. Or if you want to be a turd, analyze your own replays. I don't mind helping out a fellow terran, but your behavior was a disgrace to our entire race. Have some integrity: treat your opponent the way you'd want to be treated, and be honest with yourself about your own play. The reason you're frustrated and stuck is probably because you aren't honest about what you need to improve in your own play.


Now as to what you could have done differently as opposed to better: you had ghosts and cloak-- consider getting a nuke to harass the expansions you can't safely push towards. I already mentioned pushing with turrets, but additionally/alternatively you can add a couple ravens into your composition to get some seeker missiles off on his corruptors. Also consider getting turret/pf range and the building armour upgrade. Don't forget concussive shells-- since you made marauders you may as well have gotten the upgrade: even if you're just slowing a zergling you're obstructing whatever is behind that zergling at the same time. Every little thing adds up over the course of the game.

Focus a little more on a strong defensive position to reset to. You played and pushed frantically because you had to stay on the move since you lacked such a position. This meant it was very difficult to split your army up through the entire lategame, so the only damage you inflicted was with your entire army in one vulnerable spot. So when you did inflict damage with a push, you subsequently lost the bulk of your army. This meant you never reached a point where you had a healthy ghost count with a sufficient amount of energy to get a meaningful number of snipes off. This meant you were always replacing liberators and/or failing to maintain a medic count instead of working towards a composition capable of actually fighting his army.

I already pointed out your low barracks count, but you also could have benefited from adding 1-2 more starports so you didn't have to choose between liberators or medics, and so you could effectively add in vikings later on without failing to replace your fleet after every engagement.


Sorry, I don't know how to effectively do a proxy reaper all-in, but I can point out that in Code S the terrans who went 3rax reaper on frozen temple went rax gas rax oc rax gas without cutting any scv production. I imagine if you wanted to proxy the 2nd and 3rd rax at that timing it would be easy to send the scvs there by not cutting production, so your minerals never go over 150. Trying to rush out proxy barracks by cutting scvs hurts your economy too much, which matters since you need 2gas income to support 3rax reaper.

On December 29 2016 20:45 Hushfieldx wrote:
Hi TL

I'm Hushfield, an EU Terran (GG Tracker here). I'm getting back into SC2 after not playing since the start of HotS. I have spent the last days watching some VODs from recent tournaments and looking for 1 build per matchup to practice. I've been reading many builds on Spawning Tool, TerranCraft and still have some difficulties finding a build to work with. What one build would you recommend in each matchup? I enjoy economic openings the most and prefer playing bio, but perhaps this is not possible in every matchup?

Here's what I'm currently going with:

TvT
+ Show Spoiler +

TvZ
+ Show Spoiler +

TvP
+ Show Spoiler +

Do you think these are good choices, or should I study another build? In the end I should probably know multiple builds per matchup and/or play what I enjoy the most, but I'm looking to narrow it down to 1 build per matchup to start training again.

Thank you for your help

PS: I don't know if this is too long for the Terran help-me thread. Should I have posted this as a separate [H] topic?