EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 154
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On August 07 2013 12:48 mizU wrote: do you guys not make immortals against mech anymore? :o this is what I did and it failed horribly. So tempest does look like a better option. I ended up transitioning from colossus to storm/immortal once I realized he was going pure mech and it didn't work out for me at all. once the tanks hit critical numbers it doesnt even matter the immortals just melted in seconds | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On August 07 2013 12:52 VayneAuthority wrote: this is what I did and it failed horribly. So tempest does look like a better option. I ended up transitioning from colossus to storm/immortal once I realized he was going pure mech and it didn't work out for me at all. once the tanks hit critical numbers it doesnt even matter the immortals just melted in seconds oh, i seem to lose my colossus a lot easier than i lose my immortals, usually if i make immortals i try to hit a timing | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On August 07 2013 18:19 Sated wrote: Start with a Chargelot/Archon/Immortal or Blink Stalker/Immortal composition in order to take three bases. Use your additional mobility to pressure the Terran's 4th or 5th (depending on the map) whilst taking your own 4th and 5th. Slowly transition into a Skytoss composition composed of Carriers and Tempests. I have a lot more trouble with Mech builds that go for a big push off 2 or 3 bases. It never feels like I have enough time to get the right composition to deal with them. In my opinion, those builds are much scarier than turtle Mech, because against turtle Mech I am free to slowly build up a Skytoss army! EDIT: If they go Skyterran then you're going to need Templar for EMP against PDD, Ravens, Battlecruisers, Ghosts... and Storm is pretty useful vs. clumped up Vikings. yea it was the turtle mech build, and he had insane multi-tasking so he was able to make it work. He was probably tripling my APM. He would drop widow mines and hellbats simultaneously at all my bases which was pretty awful to deal with and probably where I lost the game. I eventually came back into it but then he sac'd all his scvs and went with a purely mule economy so he was able to have a much larger army then I could ever have. Then he just rolled me over with hellbats/ghosts/tanks once he saw no skytoss. I really was just never able to find the time or money to transition to any air, but obviously that's my fault. As a side note, that death push thing is crazy with the mule economy, their final army is just massive. | ||
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Extenz
Italy822 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On August 07 2013 23:32 Extenz wrote: does anyone have a vod of that greedy build oz did vs alive? I heard people talk about it but can't find it Ryung you mean? It should appear on youtube very soon as do all WCS NA VODs | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 07 2013 23:27 VayneAuthority wrote: yea it was the turtle mech build, and he had insane multi-tasking so he was able to make it work. He was probably tripling my APM. He would drop widow mines and hellbats simultaneously at all my bases which was pretty awful to deal with and probably where I lost the game. I eventually came back into it but then he sac'd all his scvs and went with a purely mule economy so he was able to have a much larger army then I could ever have. Then he just rolled me over with hellbats/ghosts/tanks once he saw no skytoss. I really was just never able to find the time or money to transition to any air, but obviously that's my fault. As a side note, that death push thing is crazy with the mule economy, their final army is just massive. With the right composition the final army is pretty easy to deal with as protoss, which is the main reason most pros don't bother with mech. Immortals are amazing for a midgame unit and for stopping 2-3 base mech pushes, especially with archons mixed in to deal with the hellbats (get a warp prism and drop immortals or zealots on top of the tanks). It's hard to tell if he's going for mech turtle split map or a 2-3 base push until he's already taken his fourth and is building planetarys, so at that point you want to try to trade your units efficiently while building a tempest ball. You can build carriers but they don't really add anything, as teotia said, you just basically want pure tempest/templar as your army: nothing terran can build with a mech army can deal with tempests except for vikings or ravens with PDD, and templar deal with both extremely well. You can crush much bigger mech armies with this composition, and since it's so gas intensive, you can afford to build a lot of cannons at your bases to deal with hellbat and widow mine drops. | ||
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Davron
United States86 Posts
It's very hard for me to get my Nexus up and even harder to get it up and build a wall. My usual response is to go straight into 4Gate mass zealot but even that can't hold the constant amount of lings. Advice please :3 | ||
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Tannex
United States196 Posts
On August 08 2013 09:02 Davron wrote: So heres the scenario. I go Gateway first, then I scout an extractor and a Spawning Pool. 80% of the time, this is a fast metabolic boost. I almost always lose to it. It's very hard for me to get my Nexus up and even harder to get it up and build a wall. My usual response is to go straight into 4Gate mass zealot but even that can't hold the constant amount of lings. Advice please :3 Could you post a replay of your build, because I'm fairly confident in saying that a properly executed 1 Gate FE would have a wall up in time to deal with speedlings, or at the very least, buy enough time with the MSC to construct a wall. Edit: I did a quick test on the timings and here were the results (a rough estimate as my mechanics are not superb) Zergy Timings No Scout 14 gas 14 Pool Speed timing Speed Starts 3:06 - ~3:00 First 4-6 Zerglings arrive 4:20 - ~4:15 Metabolic Speed Finishes 4:57 - ~4:50 Brotoss Timings No Scout 1 gate 14 gas FE into 3 gate Forge Msc 4:06 - ~ 4:00 Msc at natural 4:20 - ~4:15 Wall at natural (two gates 1 Forge) 5:00 - ~4:55 | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On August 08 2013 09:02 Davron wrote: So heres the scenario. I go Gateway first, then I scout an extractor and a Spawning Pool. 80% of the time, this is a fast metabolic boost. I almost always lose to it. It's very hard for me to get my Nexus up and even harder to get it up and build a wall. My usual response is to go straight into 4Gate mass zealot but even that can't hold the constant amount of lings. Advice please :3 The pool timing is critical. Against a 14 pool, 6 lings can get by before you can afford the wall, but a core expand with gas using just a zealot and MSC can cleanly deflect that and you should be able to get up a wall with no trouble. Even with a gas before 14 pool -- a very aggressive and non-standard opening that is easily scouted, speed won't finish before your wall should be up. No standard pool before hatch build will beat you to your wall without getting a much faster pool than normal. I would suggest you learn the various pool and gas timings to recognize what kind of pool it is, and whether or not it's fast enough to potentially break you. | ||
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LiSAuCE
United States47 Posts
What do number of gasses mean when playing against zerg? | ||
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 09 2013 12:06 Rickyvalle21 wrote: So is Blink observer build viable anymore? I've tried the build alil(at masters level) and I came to the conclusion that its completely obsolete. It doesn't counter DT and stargate builds anymore due to blink nerf, voidray buff, photon overcharge, Dark shrine buff and the metagame being 1 gate expos mostly. The maps don't favor it either(other then star station) because you have to blink in closer to the ramp rather then the mineral line so theres not as much maneuverability to blink in snipe probes and blink away. Its like going blink obs on Ohana. So its it just me being bad? Or is this build not viable anymore. In my experience, blink builds are still definitely viable but you have to be incredibly aggressive with the first 3 stalkers. As far as blink/obs builds...I don't know, they're really ONLY good against players opening DT. So, speaking from experience, (I still almost always do a DT expand), I think DTs are still good, or dark shrine cancels into blink+robo expands are good. | ||
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bretfart
114 Posts
On August 09 2013 02:37 LiSAuCE wrote: Hey guys. I still have a lot of trouble scouting zerg, mainly scouting gasses. What do number of gasses mean when playing against zerg? If you scout with your 9/10-Probe and see a gas, he is obviously going for quick speed. Check his geyser again after a while and see if he is still mining gas (more than 100 which he needs for speed; click on the geyser to confirm how much gas he has harvested. upon seeing your probe entering his base he could just take his drones off gas and put them back on when your probe leaves). If he is still mining gas / or has taken much more than 100, prepare for aggression. Having more than 1 gas very early is very likely some kind of cheese. Normally, a zerg player would go fast 3 base without gas. Zerg will take 2 gasses most of the time at around 6 minutes. Shortly after that a third gas, builds evo, roach warren and goes lair. So check for his gas timing at around 6 - 6:30 (hallucination). This is pretty standard and you dont have to worry much. After lair is finished, scout again to find his tech buildings. You don't necessarily need to know how much gas he has taken all the time. Just double check in the early game to prevend being overrun by cheese. It is important to scout his lair timing and find his tier 2 tech building (Spire, Hydra, Infestation). If he has no additrional tech building and is still on 3 or 4 gasses on 3 base, he will probably go for a heavy roach/ling attack. | ||
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bretfart
114 Posts
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Vipermagi
47 Posts
I am switching to protoss from terran, I am diamond level player. And I got a question: Is there any fast expand build which is viable vs every race? I heard about msc expo, but dont know the correct build order rly. | ||
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1a2a3aPro
Canada227 Posts
I'm doing a gateway expand into 4 warpgate pressure, but I am not sure I am doing the build properly. Does anyone have a couple replays of this sort of style I could study? Thanks. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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