EPTThe HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 156
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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1a2a3aPro
Canada227 Posts
I notice that a lot of players like the immortal zealot archon mix. I think it's really good. I open state's build and use this composition a lot. If your opponent goes straight for col you have some timings when his col count is low, and in the later game tempests are very effective against col. If he goes voids, storm rips them. What happens when both players get this composition, and get up to 4-5 bases? Should you deviate into tempests only if he gets col, should you go col yourself, is this immo zeal archon just a mid game comp? You have enough income and bank and a lot of options available, what's the dream late game comp? | ||
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Kovaz
Canada233 Posts
On August 12 2013 01:50 Teoita wrote: Immortals are a great unit for their cost in general. As you said they are an added layer to your army (and we know how important that is from late WoL PvP); plus they are very efficient for their cost. Hardened shields reduces some archon damage, and in bigger fights zealots (their most natural counter) just do nothing because they get killed so fast by archon splash. Adding on to this, Immortals also beat Archons head to head in even numbers, while costing the same supply (4), and less resources overall. | ||
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Mozdk
Denmark6989 Posts
Can anyone explain this? Why it is not for roaches, hydras, or swarm hosts? | ||
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
On August 12 2013 06:26 Mozdk wrote: In Nani vs VortiX, Tod said Nani saw double evo chamber, and knew he was facing mass Zerglings (WCS EU earlier today) Can anyone explain this? Why it is not for roaches, hydras, or swarm hosts? I think there are a few different reasons. 1. Gas, zerglings don't use gas, so you have left-over that you can use to increase the efficiency of zerglings. 2. Zerglings with equal or better carapace vs. zealot attack upgrades take 3 hits to kill instead of 2. 3. Zerglings take less damage from various protoss units, so carapace mitigates more relatively. 4. There is probably some advantage to having carapace when transitioning into ultralisks. When it comes to roach-hydra, there are some reasons for not getting carapace very fast, e.g. when fighting, you don't really want to take much damage from zealots and carapace don't benefit against immortal and stalker attacks as much. You usually also want to have a bigger army and tech to vipers or corruptors, which carapace upgrades would delay. So double evo chambers, usually put down very early is a sign of going mass zerglings. Roach-hydra players usually add their second evo chamber at a later time. | ||
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Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
- When do you attack exactly? By now I was moving with 4 sentries, 1 zealot at ~6:30 to the zerg base to secure some forward pylons. My first warp-in rounds near the zerg base are at ~7:00. Is this too late? - When do you stop probe production? So far I stopped at 16 probes in the main + 6 in gas & 8 to 10 probes at the natural. | ||
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.kv
United States2332 Posts
On August 12 2013 06:26 Mozdk wrote: In Nani vs VortiX, Tod said Nani saw double evo chamber, and knew he was facing mass Zerglings (WCS EU earlier today) Can anyone explain this? Why it is not for roaches, hydras, or swarm hosts? double evo before lair = mass zergling if they were going roach, you would generally get lair then double evo (if they wanted to go double evo) | ||
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Maverick32x
United States311 Posts
I typically go Stardust's 12:30 zealot/sentry/immortal build. Whenever a zerg gets a fast 3rd- I find that I get over-run by Roach/Hydra or Mutas when I push at 12:30... | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
Against roach/hydra i've seen him do the fast variation (at 11) and a slower one with charge about 13 minutes into the game and 150 supply. In both cases, but especially roach/hydra, you need spot-on forcefields to make that build work. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On August 13 2013 02:26 Maverick32x wrote: Is there a 'response' to a quick 3rd from Zerg when I FFE? I typically go Stardust's 12:30 zealot/sentry/immortal build. Whenever a zerg gets a fast 3rd- I find that I get over-run by Roach/Hydra or Mutas when I push at 12:30... Aside from your timings being off as Teoita mentioned, a Zerg will almost always grab a quick third against any FFE, and they do so because Protoss can't really respond before they get it up other than with forge aggression, or delaying it with pylon blocks. If you're lucky and the zerg has no overlord near his third, you can cannon rush it, but don't expect to get away with it against anything other than a bad Zerg. Unless your build has pre-planned timings to hit a Zerg's third quickly, there generally isn't much you're going to respond with. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Maverick32x
United States311 Posts
Hitting earlier makes a lot of sense, I tend to wait just 'because', but I have my 2.5 immortals and am ready to go.. so maybe just engaging earlier will make a difference. Is it 150 food @ 13 with charge what you're saying? I knew that in WoL trying to 'punish' a quick 3rd wasn't possible, but I wasn't sure the state of HotS~ | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
Regarding punishing a fast third, you can't do it in HotS either, but it's fine since as i said a solid build accounts for that possibility (indeed, FFE followups account MAINLY for that, since fast 3base is a lot more common and strong than 2base tech). | ||
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iLevitate
United States225 Posts
what is the most approriate way to respond to a proxy hatch at Nat. when you doing gateway expand?? edit :seem like it already being answered in the Op. | ||
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:15 iLevitate wrote: I'm not sure if anyome else had this problem, but ill ask anyway. what is the most approriate way to respond to a proxy hatch at Nat. when you doing gateway expand?? edit :seem like it already being answered in the Op. I don't think the op addresses the gate expand so here's my take on it. i really can't guarantee this is the best way to do it. if i see the hatch block i chrono out 2 zealots to hit it if it's just started, then go msc and pylon at natural(if they cancel go nexus). if you scout it late then i'd also pull a few probes, just depending on the situation i guess. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On August 13 2013 09:24 aldochillbro wrote: a while ago i used to go 1 gate fe in pvp and ripped a build off nani that went gate nexus gate robo(2gates before robo) but i couldn't hold blink allins comfortably so i went robo before second gate. can anyone tell me which they think is better and why the second gate is used before robo? I can't think of a reason why players do that off the top of my head You should be able to have an immortal ready regardless. Both options are valid, i'm playing around with 2gates before robo recently and doing ok but 1gate fe into robo is fine too.l Naniwa's build in particular can get a lot of units out once warpgate completes, punishing any kind of overaggressive pressure thanks to nexus cannon+forcefields+3 stalkers. | ||
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dasfewfawdx
17 Posts
I use Parting's Blink stalker build while MSC scouting and pressuring off 3 gateways (fourth in completion) as my blink finishes. What usually ends up happening is my opponent already has a stalker out so I can't put much pressure with my MSC in his main and his sentry/planetary nexus buys him enough time to get out 1 immortal with a second close to done. By then, I can't seem to snipe off the immortals efficiently enough with just blink stalkers. Any advice? | ||
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