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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. |
United States4883 Posts
On August 15 2013 10:55 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
I dont have a problem beating the mech but how do I deal with blue flame hellion runbys and blue flame hellbat drops? I tried investing in a couple canons in the mineral but theu still kill a ton of probes.
The best defense is sim city + cannons and good control, simple as that. You might try adding in 2 templar at each base to snipe the medivac or storm groups of hellions.
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Any way to change the spellcaster priority? It's annoying as hell to have the mothership core prioritised over sentries. I'm cool with templar/sentries on separate hotkeys but when momma gets involved it's irritating.
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United States4883 Posts
On August 15 2013 12:13 Larkin wrote:
Any way to change the spellcaster priority? It's annoying as hell to have the mothership core prioritised over sentries. I'm cool with templar/sentries on separate hotkeys but when momma gets involved it's irritating.
Nope, unfortunately  . You need to just hotkey your MsC separately or just put it on a follow command behind a colossus or something.
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On August 15 2013 12:20 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 12:13 Larkin wrote:
Any way to change the spellcaster priority? It's annoying as hell to have the mothership core prioritised over sentries. I'm cool with templar/sentries on separate hotkeys but when momma gets involved it's irritating. Nope, unfortunately . You need to just hotkey your MsC separately or just put it on a follow command behind a colossus or something.
Eurgh, that sucks. Maybe I need to change my hotkey setup but I don't want to have to learn a whole new setup... I have 1 for whole army, 2 for sentries, 3 for templar, 4/5 for nexus, 6 for robo, 7 for forge, 0 for emergancy obs, and just use W for gates.
I suppose there is a better one but that's what I'm used to. Suppose I could use 8 or 9 for MSC but meh.
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On August 15 2013 12:34 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 12:20 SC2John wrote:On August 15 2013 12:13 Larkin wrote:
Any way to change the spellcaster priority? It's annoying as hell to have the mothership core prioritised over sentries. I'm cool with templar/sentries on separate hotkeys but when momma gets involved it's irritating. Nope, unfortunately . You need to just hotkey your MsC separately or just put it on a follow command behind a colossus or something. Eurgh, that sucks. Maybe I need to change my hotkey setup but I don't want to have to learn a whole new setup... I have 1 for whole army, 2 for sentries, 3 for templar, 4/5 for nexus, 6 for robo, 7 for forge, 0 for emergancy obs, and just use W for gates. I suppose there is a better one but that's what I'm used to. Suppose I could use 8 or 9 for MSC but meh.
You might want to invest in a mouse with macro buttons. It makes it much easier to use 8 or 9 for the MSC
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On August 15 2013 14:00 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 12:34 Larkin wrote:On August 15 2013 12:20 SC2John wrote:On August 15 2013 12:13 Larkin wrote:
Any way to change the spellcaster priority? It's annoying as hell to have the mothership core prioritised over sentries. I'm cool with templar/sentries on separate hotkeys but when momma gets involved it's irritating. Nope, unfortunately . You need to just hotkey your MsC separately or just put it on a follow command behind a colossus or something. Eurgh, that sucks. Maybe I need to change my hotkey setup but I don't want to have to learn a whole new setup... I have 1 for whole army, 2 for sentries, 3 for templar, 4/5 for nexus, 6 for robo, 7 for forge, 0 for emergancy obs, and just use W for gates. I suppose there is a better one but that's what I'm used to. Suppose I could use 8 or 9 for MSC but meh. You might want to invest in a mouse with macro buttons. It makes it much easier to use 8 or 9 for the MSC
Also going RSVP style and having your space bar as a hotkey is very useful when you need control groups for templar, sentries, phoenixes, army and MSC.
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Italy12246 Posts
On August 15 2013 12:34 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 12:20 SC2John wrote:On August 15 2013 12:13 Larkin wrote:
Any way to change the spellcaster priority? It's annoying as hell to have the mothership core prioritised over sentries. I'm cool with templar/sentries on separate hotkeys but when momma gets involved it's irritating. Nope, unfortunately . You need to just hotkey your MsC separately or just put it on a follow command behind a colossus or something. Eurgh, that sucks. Maybe I need to change my hotkey setup but I don't want to have to learn a whole new setup... I have 1 for whole army, 2 for sentries, 3 for templar, 4/5 for nexus, 6 for robo, 7 for forge, 0 for emergancy obs, and just use W for gates. I suppose there is a better one but that's what I'm used to. Suppose I could use 8 or 9 for MSC but meh.
If you need more control groups for your army i suggest using either y or `. I use 1 for my main army (including sentries), 2 for templar, 3 for the msc, ` for harassment units/warp prisms, y for the scouting obs, 4-6 (rarely 7) for production buildings.
On August 15 2013 09:24 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 07:05 Teoita wrote:
Yeah you should keep your obs in key locations outside your bases rather than trying to follow his army.
I usually have 3 spotter observers:
#1 watches the main for drops
#2 is on the ledge away from the third/nat, watching the two paths coming from the xel'naga tower
#3 is on the ledge away from the nat/main, watching the paths coming straight down/from my fourth base.
Hope that makes sense. Like I said, my build only has 2 Observers before I start making Colossi. As soon as my Colossus Den finishes I need 500 gas (Colossus, Colossus Range, +1 Attack) available so I literally can't squeeze in another Observer, even though I do have time to do so. I would have to delay one of those three things and I don't really want to because I don't need more than 2 Observers on most maps. Most maps aren't as bad as Bel'shir Vestige and Daybreak are... I might just have to change the build specifically for Bel'shir Vestige. To be honest, I've been cheesing a lot there recently because of how much I dislike it, so I might just keep doing that. Far simpler. Also, I'm not sure where you're talking about, but I think I get the idea-ish. So hard to describe positions on a map T_T
Afaik most colossus builds these days are able to afford 3 observers. If you don't have the gas for them, you might want to take the gas at your natural a little earlier.
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On August 15 2013 18:12 Teoita wrote:
Afaik most colossus builds these days are able to afford 3 observers. If you don't have the gas for them, you might want to take the gas at your natural a little earlier.
That's completely correct. I play a lot of double forge + colossus (71% winrate PvT atm in mid masters) and take my gas at the natural at ~6:50. 3 observers are fine before getting your first colossus. With the right amount of chronoboosts even 4 are possible but I'd rather get my first colossus fast.
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On August 15 2013 09:28 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 09:26 bertu wrote:On August 15 2013 09:24 Sated wrote:On August 15 2013 07:05 Teoita wrote:
Yeah you should keep your obs in key locations outside your bases rather than trying to follow his army.
I usually have 3 spotter observers:
#1 watches the main for drops
#2 is on the ledge away from the third/nat, watching the two paths coming from the xel'naga tower
#3 is on the ledge away from the nat/main, watching the paths coming straight down/from my fourth base.
Hope that makes sense. Like I said, my build only has 2 Observers before I start making Colossi. As soon as my Colossus Den finishes I need 500 gas (Colossus, Colossus Range, +1 Attack) available and so I literally can't squeeze in another Observer. I would have to delay something and I don't really want that. I'm not sure where you're talking about, though. So hard to describe positions on a map T_T Do you really need colossus range that early? Unless you are going for a 2-base bust, you can usually start range after your second colossus and be fine. This would allow for more obs or maybe a faster cannon to help against drops. I don't know. I probably don't need Colossus Range that quickly, but I feel a lot safer if I do it that way. EDIT: I sometimes do a reactive two base all-in if the Terran does something stupid like throwing their Medivac pressure away, so it can actually be useful. I suppose those are rare occurrences, and I suppose I wait for the third Colossus before moving out in any case... which would mean range would've finished if I started it after my first Colossus finished.
When are you getting your robo, and when are you getting your gasses? How many sentries do you build before you start colossus production? Actually, do you have a replay of your build? You can afford 3 observers, both 1/1, and colossus range just before your first colossus finishes without cutting colo production. At least if you're going by Rain's gas timings. Only catch is he usually only makes 2 sentries.
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Hello, new protoss player here.
I have some trouble with protoss and zerg.
Generally, I have no idea what tech I should be aiming for. What are generally the strongest tech for protoss and zerg?
For zerg the guide says stargate is the most used, is this still true today? Do I just put one stargate down and pump 1 void ray and 4-5 phoenixes?
For protoss there are so many techs to go I don't know which one to choose from. Again I am new and would like to focus on one tech so I can practice it over and over.
I'm a former diamon zerg player if that matters.
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Italy12246 Posts
Learn the stargate/4gate/robo/colossus>third build. It's been the most popular macro pvz build since 2010, and with good reason. The one in the pvz guide is pretty much identical; get your msc as you do your first round of warpins after investing in the stargate/robo tech.
In modern play you can skip the void and head straight for phoenixes when you are sure your opponent isn't allining.
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On August 15 2013 19:54 Teoita wrote:
Learn the stargate/4gate/robo/colossus>third build. It's been the most popular macro pvz build since 2010, and with good reason. The one in the pvz guide is pretty much identical; get your msc as you do your first round of warpins after investing in the stargate/robo tech.
In modern play you can skip the void and head straight for phoenixes when you are sure your opponent isn't allining.
I see. Is going mass air units a strong strategy? How would I go about going mass air after my third base? Do I drop down 1 more stargate?
What about protoss? Are mass air a viable strategy as well or is it easily countered?
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Italy12246 Posts
Yeah skytoss is a thing in PvZ. The most popular build for it is still to go stargate, but make a single phoenix and then a void ray. Take a fast third off four units from your initial gate (assuming you went ffe), then go 3stargate and pump void rays.
Players to study for that style/build are sos, alicia, crank, creator off the top of my head.
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Italy12246 Posts
Holy shit well that explains a lot lol. Even nony doesn't 2gate obs anymore.
2gate fast obs+4 sentries is a HUGE nono what the hell man. At the very least, make just 2 sentries. 4 was overkill in wol already, now it's just freaking silly.
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Italy12246 Posts
Let me rephrase....you dieing to drops is a direct consequence of your build rather than of your observer usage.
Open 2gate obs with 4 sentries>>>can't afford extra observers>>>can't spot drops/pushes>>>die to them.
In this day and age, you CANT get away with just 2 observers. It's just not possible.
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On August 15 2013 20:49 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 20:44 Teoita wrote:
Let me rephrase....you dieing to drops is a direct consequence of your build rather than of your observer usage.
Open 2gate obs with 4 sentries>>>can't afford extra observers>>>can't spot drops>>>die to them.
In this day and age, you CANT get away with just 2 observers. It's just not possible. I can modify the build to get three Observers, it's not that big a deal. The easier solution to my problem seemed to be better Observer positioning, but knowing that I need three Observers is really helpful. I really want to stress that it's only Bel'shir Vestige where I seem to have difficulty against drops, and that's why I was asking specifically about spotter positioning on Bel'shir Vestige. I don't have this problem on any of the other maps I play and, because of that, I figured I might just have my Observers in bad positions. If three Observers are required on Bel'Shir Vestige then fair enough, I'm capable of messing around with my build myself and I'm sure I can find a way to fit one in. It might even make playing on the other maps easier, who knows? In any case, I don't expect this community to be sympathetic towards players who just want to play their own way, mostly because most people are obsessed with becoming terrible mimics of good players. People clearly find that fun so fair play to them, but I don't and that's why I didn't ask for build order advice. EDIT: But it's really my own fault for answering the build order question when no good was ever going to come of it.
I don't see the reason for calling people who follow pro builds terrible mimics. No one has told you that you can't play the way you want. O_o
But, I disagree with Teoita, to an extent. In this day and age you can probably get away with out three observers more so than before. I normally get three obs; two to watch the outskirts of my main and the path to the third (in the case of belshir) with my primary observer first going to his base, then carefully skirting the edge of his army's vision. If the obs ever gets sniped I don't remake it until much later, but I hallucinate phoenixes to keep an eye on his movement. My army sits nestled between the third and natural with mothership core between main and nat. Once I near max though, I add on cannons in my main/third/fourth.
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So I went for a DT rush, and it did not work. Opp suspected it and got a Obs...
Followed up with a zealot/archon push, which my opponent was lucky enough to scout out.
My question is - he responded to the zealot/archon by walling off his natural with gateways and pylons. what is the best way to get around this already down in econ, tech, and committed to the zealot/archon?
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EPT
