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The HotS Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 155
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for build orders. | ||
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bretfart
114 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On August 03 2013 02:21 vhapter wrote: if you delay him for one round of warp in then your army is suddenly almost twice as strong, while he will still be on 12 or on 15 marines. Of course even better is you cut his army in half with the force fields. And I think you underestimate photon overcharge. for example imagine pulling all your probes, forcefielding the ramp and all of his marines fighting your nexus - his marines would all die for nothing. Really all you need to do is run your sentries and probes away while your other gateway units + photon overcharge kill off the marines. Yes, I feel like getting two is too much of an investment to not go all the way with thermal lance, especially against such marauder heavy compositions - either you go chargelot archon which is good against marauders, and if you go colossus you need thermal lance or else his marauders will have the same range as your colossus, so he doesnt even need to build vikings. On the other hand if he "fell for" the rangeless strategy and built vikings, it's actually not bad for him since you invested much more than you would invest into with one colossus. Also keep in mind you dont have to open colossus. Teoita will tell you stories about how awesome opening HT is  Yeah, I thought about that choice later. I guess that think would be fine if I went ranged colossi with blink stalker though, but yeah for charge first, it's a bit different. I'm still kind of unsure whether I should try taking a third without at least one good engagement against 2 base terrans though. The other day, I played a guy who's worse definitely than me, but I lost because he sitted on 2 bases without doing any kind of aggression and did a 200 supply push without any vikings or ghosts, but so much bio (this guy also had lots of marauders) that makes me believe getting a third was a mistake. I've played quite a few terrans who sit on 2 bases for quite a while recently, and this play style makes me really unsure about my third's timing. well its hard to say much about that without looking at the replay, there are surely things you could have done a lot better, there always are until players get to a very high level. But sure in PvT protoss often expands reactively, scout for his 3rd, if he just sits on 2 base and builds nothing but army you need to be prepared for the attack. I think you should be careful with saying he was definitely worse though. You might think of his strategy as dumb, but if you didnt know how to deal with it then youre the one that was lacking knowledge. On August 02 2013 19:44 7mk wrote: + Show Spoiler + Watched the PvP now as well first of all you have a pretty big supply block and are unable to properly spend your money directly after you warp in 3 stalkers you already have the money for 3 more. Looking at your opponents build I was thinking it really shouldnt fare well against proper blink stalker aggression, he built his robo after nexus and 3 gates and he got an observer out before immortal. You walk in shortly before blink is done, it works out really nicely as you force out photon overcharge, be careful vs sentries though. Then you move back to blink into his main and time warp on his ramp. Really nice move but you screw up reallly hard with your micro. While hes slowly trying to walk up you focus on one of his two pylons powering the gateways. Definitely the right choice here, but you stop attacking it when its like one stalker shot away from dying. It would have supply blocked him super hard and he would have lost the power for one of his three gateways. Then his first immortal pops out and you do the worst thing possible. You blink all of your stalkers right ontop of it immortal.... and 6 zealots! Blinking away hurt stalkers gives you a huge advantage over a non blinking players gateway units, so whenever you choose to blink all your stalkers at once, taking away that advantage, make sure it's the right thing to do. Blinking right on top of all his zealots is never the right thing to do, + Show Spoiler [I'm sure you got the point but…] + You had MSC+9 blink stalkers (three more that could have blinked up very soon) vs 1 immortal 3 stalkers and 6 zealots.Those three stalkers were on the low ground with there still being a time warp on his ramp. So really if you move away your MSC you have 1 MSC, 9 blink stalkers against 1 immortal and 6 zealots. With proper micro you never get hit by those zealots so the only unit that can actually do damage here is the one immortal, if you blink away the stalker that gets shot by the immortal then you have MSC+9(->12) stalkers that keep on doing damage no matter what against units that cant really get to you until he warps in more stalkers and walks up with his 3 stalkers on the high ground. But if all the zealots can actually hit you they are of course wayy more cost effective than stalkers. Btw. if you do decide to focus down an immortal keep in mind you dont have to do this with a full blink, you might just walk and shoot, and blink when zealots get to close. Or you kite vs the zealots and when theyre close you blink above them, and snipe the immortal while kiting to the top, away from the zealots. Then while very far behind you go for the expand to try to catch up. Whether its the right thing to do or not depends on whether or not you feel like you can kill him if you dont expand. In this case mayybe 3 more stalkers could have done it. But if you do expand, make sure you build those probes or else youre just not gonna catch up. One of the things that scare me is when the expanding player gets 2-3 immortals. I know blinking on top of several zealots to snipe an immortal isn't a great idea, but I'm not sure what I should do once he does get 2-3 immortals out. Maybe I should constantly attempt to snag a few kills, so when his immortals are out, his gateway unit count is lower and I can still fight? Because It feels as though I need to take down his nexus at the very least to make this build worth while. I know what you mean, once there are too many immortals out its hard to do much with stalkers. But you need to stay calm and not hastily rush an attack you dont have to do. Like in this game his immortal was just out, so you had a lot of time until his 2nd would be built, it takes 55 seconds to build one (so slightly less than 40s with chronoboost) hence you could have done a lot of damage considering your army advantage. and keep in mind his immortals cant all be everywhere at once, so keep harassing and attack where hes not/ in low numbers, you might be able to wittle him down, and if you manage to keep his army count/production low without losing much you might eventually be able to kill him, if you keep his eco or his tech delayed you can expand and tech up yourself. Keep in mind that when he defends he cant just go to your base and kill you. You could blink into his main while he wants to move out, or if you have charge rdy when he moves out with immortal stalker he gets annihilated. If he wants to be safe he needs to tech up first, giving you time. if he techs to colossus rather than blink then you might be able to delay him even further. Admittedly though, if you dont go all in with blink stalkers it's one of the harder styles to master, personally I rarely do it cause I feel other styles are easier. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
Preferrably with timings, e.g 15pool 16 hatch 15 OL 2x lings 17 queen blabla. That would be VERY appriciated User was warned for this post | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On August 09 2013 22:42 NEEDZMOAR wrote: Sup! my friend just started playing protoss and Im trying to "coach" him a bit to give him a speedy start, but since I dont play toss but Zerg, Im not very familiar with PvP. Could someone give me a basic safe middle of the road opening for pvp or a link to a site where I can find such a build? Preferrably with timings, e.g 15pool 16 hatch 15 OL 2x lings 17 queen blabla. That would be VERY appriciated From top: Also, please put some effort into your questions. Do not just ask for a BO. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
Sorry, but Im really desperate  I guess I just have to approach it with learning by doing | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Rauders/Hellbats tank storm very well and I just get EMP/Viking'd to death because of his macro. High Diamond Low Master opponents BTW. | ||
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BernabusStarcraft2
Scotland112 Posts
Hey I am looking for some feedback on this one base colossus allin in PvP. Ive been using it loads recently at diamond level but I am not sure if its the best way, even though my winrate using it is very good. Pretty much the quickest robo you can get + 2 gates (similar to old school 3 gate robo) Followed by collo bay instantly after Warp in a few sentries and loads of zealots as colo build mass chrono on the collo add on a 4th gate as you get close to moving out with 2 collo and obs and you move out I lose instantly against any stargate build but other than that i almost always win. PvP has a lot of risks So any suggestions or improvements, or have you seen a similar build executed? | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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TokO
Norway577 Posts
On August 10 2013 04:58 BernabusStarcraft2 wrote: Hey I posted this a while back and no one has gotten back to me. If anyone has the time - Hey I am looking for some feedback on this one base colossus allin in PvP. Ive been using it loads recently at diamond level but I am not sure if its the best way, even though my winrate using it is very good. Pretty much the quickest robo you can get + 2 gates (similar to old school 3 gate robo) Followed by collo bay instantly after Warp in a few sentries and loads of zealots as colo build mass chrono on the collo add on a 4th gate as you get close to moving out with 2 collo and obs and you move out I lose instantly against any stargate build but other than that i almost always win. PvP has a lot of risks So any suggestions or improvements, or have you seen a similar build executed? Okey, so I'm not aware of any metagame changes from last month or so, but I can comment on some principal issues of your build. You're going to be very vulnerable to any early aggression. It's cool that you probably have 2 colossus around 8-9 min, but you don't have a lot of units at 7 minutes, which is roughly the time when blink aggressions happen, or more conservative dt plays. If you play against a 1gate FE, you should expect to be scouted by a phoenix around 6 min mark. From that time until your push hits, your opponent will be able to specifically prepare for your build. I feel like that's the biggest issue of such a play, once you finish your Robotics Bay, you are very committed to your all-in, and since it's almost scouted by default, your opponent will have ample time to prepare. Of course, I haven't gone through the experiences that you have, so I can't say for certain its efficiency, but feel free to elaborate on the things your opponents have been trying to do. EDIT: Lol, love how nobody is addressing the marauder hellbat thing. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On August 10 2013 06:09 Teoita wrote: Robo based fast expands were always able to hold off one base colossus allins with the help of immortals. Having the nexus cannon and a faster nexus compared to wol only makes it easier, which is why 1base colossus isn't used in competitive play anymore. Yeah I haven't ever seen anyone do something like that in HotS. | ||
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-MoonLight-
3 Posts
I am able to get into 3 base fairly easily without TOO much damage, then I push with 2/2 4 collosus (if I don't lose any to early attacks), a few archons, and storm. But when this push doesn't do enough damage I take a 4th more gates and try to macro. Here is my problem, I don't know what to get against lots of ghosts... my templars feedback a few, but they still EMP my whole army, and wipe it out. When I see 10+ ghosts what unit composition should I aim for??? Archons are too easily countered by EMP, templars are sniped. Should I go for 8+ collosus and hope I have enough stalkers to kill off his vikings? or should I go for Sky Toss?? | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 10 2013 07:06 -MoonLight- wrote: I have a question in PvT. I am able to get into 3 base fairly easily without TOO much damage, then I push with 2/2 4 collosus (if I don't lose any to early attacks), a few archons, and storm. But when this push doesn't do enough damage I take a 4th more gates and try to macro. Here is my problem, I don't know what to get against lots of ghosts... my templars feedback a few, but they still EMP my whole army, and wipe it out. When I see 10+ ghosts what unit composition should I aim for??? Archons are too easily countered by EMP, templars are sniped. Should I go for 8+ collosus and hope I have enough stalkers to kill off his vikings? or should I go for Sky Toss?? If your question amounts to: what composition do I go for against a terran lategame army incorporating 10+ ghosts, then the answer is more or less your entire ground tech tree. You'll want 3-5 colossus (the more ghosts there are, the more colossi you need), a lot of templar, some stalkers with blink to micro, and at this point it just comes down to micro. You need to spread your templar out and use them to flank, or put some in a warp prism and drop them on the army. Use oracles with revelation or observers to get vision so you can get a micro advantage, and hit your feedbacks and your storms. Do not clump your templar up, and keep your stalkers on hand to blink forwards to pick off a few ghosts when you can. Against super heavy ghost armies, you'll want more colossi: ghosts with medivacs healing them don't die to anything but storms/colossi, and you won't get many storms off against it. Cut down on the amount of zealots in your army against ghost heavy compositions, they shred zealots like it's nothing. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
I'd say a good maxed army is something like 6 colossi, 12ish stalkers, one sentry for guardian shield, about 10 templar spread around the map, a few archons and zealots. The final fight really comes down to micro. Learn to split your templar and flank with them. If you find you can't land storms on his bio in the key engagements, try storming the vikings instead to make your stalker's job easier and allowing the colossi to kill everything. | ||
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-MoonLight-
3 Posts
Anyways I just played a PvZ against my first masters opponent.... and he did a weird strategy as you'll see in the replay, he blocks my wall off with a hatchery.. I do win the game, but I was wondering if this was common and whats the best response to the block. He is in masters, but i must say microed horribly.. but if he were a bit better, I problably would have lost the game. Here is the replay http://drop.sc/353611 | ||
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JeanLuc
Canada377 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
Chargelot/Archon has 1 and 3 range, so adding some 6 range units increases the army's overall DPS by allowing more units to shoot at once. These units have to be Immortals, because Colossi are countered by Tempests, and Stalkers are owned by Immortals. The best units to kill Immortals are either Void Rays (Which are stopped by Archons) or Chargelots (Which can't get to the Immortals; if Chargelots are attacking your Immortals in a fight, you've screwed up massively, or you're about to gg in five seconds.) So, the Immortals aren't chosen for their damage potential, but more that they're the only unit that fills the "third layer" role without having the potential to be obliterated by counter-tech. Is this correct? | ||
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