EPTThe HotS Zerg Help Me Thread - Page 250
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entropy.
Great Britain25 Posts
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theflathead
United States2 Posts
I do well in the beginning of ZvT; I get my 2nd up comfortably and hold off any helion/hellbat pushes. what i'm finding happens most often now is that once I get my army of roaches and succesfully contain him (i destroy 60-70% of his army and he's forced to just siege tank in his nautral), i am able to get my 3rd easily saturated but from there is where i start to defeat myself. the opponent just has 3-4 tanks, few hellbats, and a bunker in his natural but with a ramp to choke me is enough to defend against my 40-50+ combo of roaches/hydras and nearly 6-7 swarm hosts. how do i break this? | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On March 27 2015 04:39 theflathead wrote: New member so I can't make a new thread just yet. I do well in the beginning of ZvT; I get my 2nd up comfortably and hold off any helion/hellbat pushes. what i'm finding happens most often now is that once I get my army of roaches and succesfully contain him (i destroy 60-70% of his army and he's forced to just siege tank in his nautral), i am able to get my 3rd easily saturated but from there is where i start to defeat myself. the opponent just has 3-4 tanks, few hellbats, and a bunker in his natural but with a ramp to choke me is enough to defend against my 40-50+ combo of roaches/hydras and nearly 6-7 swarm hosts. how do i break this? If you have 3 base saturation with roach/hydra (don't go into SH vs bio as they just force you into more immobility while sinking your money) vs a 2 base Terran, you should just focus on your upgrades and tech (so get Hive for 3/3 and vipers) and maybe getting a 4th if you feel comfortable. In general you should just stay maxed containing him on 2 bases while teching up to vipers (if he has a lot of tanks, if he doesn't, you can do it without vipers) to pull/blinding cloud the tanks, trade armies and remax to hit him again and kill as he cannot afford it or even doesn't have much money left to mine. If it's dedicated mech, you can either: -nydus/roach drop him instead of getting hydras (based SC2John guide) -do a roach/hydra/viper timing that just finishes mech off with pulling the tanks and amoving through the rest -keep making a lot of muta/roach (while getting the SH later) so you can start harassing with the mutas and pick off a lot of stuff while he can't move out vs the roaches | ||
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theflathead
United States2 Posts
On March 27 2015 04:58 Ej_ wrote: If you have 3 base saturation with roach/hydra (don't go into SH vs bio as they just force you into more immobility while sinking your money) vs a 2 base Terran, you should just focus on your upgrades and tech (so get Hive for 3/3 and vipers) and maybe getting a 4th if you feel comfortable. In general you should just stay maxed containing him on 2 bases while teching up to vipers (if he has a lot of tanks, if he doesn't, you can do it without vipers) to pull/blinding cloud the tanks, trade armies and remax to hit him again and kill as he cannot afford it or even doesn't have much money left to mine. If it's dedicated mech, you can either: -nydus/roach drop him instead of getting hydras (based SC2John guide) -do a roach/hydra/viper timing that just finishes mech off with pulling the tanks and amoving through the rest -keep making a lot of muta/roach (while getting the SH later) so you can start harassing with the mutas and pick off a lot of stuff while he can't move out vs the roaches yeah he was dedicated mech. ya looking back i thought mutas woulda been better, and vipers very necessary vs tanks. and feels good knowing that i'm thinking the right way (or we're both wrong haha). still trying to get used to vipers, first time on hots a few weeks ago since wings of liberty like 3 yrs back thanks much | ||
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HallBregg
134 Posts
How should I adapt my play vs a protoss going gate-core-nexus. I usually do 15 pool 16 hatch into a third at 4:15 and 2 gass at about 6:00. | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On March 27 2015 06:41 HallBregg wrote: Hi guys! How should I adapt my play vs a protoss going gate-core-nexus. I usually do 15 pool 16 hatch into a third at 4:15 and 2 gass at about 6:00. Keep a close eye on his gateway count at the front. In my experience this usually means gateway pressure (3gate or 4gate), so I like to throw down a little earlier gas (5:30 gas and roach warren), along with a few roaches for defense while droning up. This is pretty easy to spot since it's almost always part of his wall. If you scout forge at his front, then you can delay gas until 6:00 because he is likely delaying his attack/taking a 3rd. He may be doing a stargate play or some other tech, so be wary of this. There was also a discussion on this a few pages back in this thread, with some helpful replies from Moosegills, a GM Z: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/402752-the-hots-zerg-help-me-thread?page=237 | ||
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entropy.
Great Britain25 Posts
If you're carrying out the build you stated without gas, then stay on 2 bases for longer and defend with queen, spine (only add them if you see a 4 gate), slow-ling. Cut drones at 30 before making units. double gas at 5:00 to 5:10 and get a roach warren at 6:00, then take a later third base (usually at 7:00), or if you scout another build than a 4 gate, take your third at 6:00. you want to have macro benchmarks that aren't set to time. 6:00 is good, but a little late for getting your lair tech in time to stop an immortal push. Many pros use the 28 drone mark. This is usually at 5:35. Your question is really aimed at the difference between forge openers and gate core nexus openers, and how to scout/react correctly. You need to see when the 2nd, 3rd and 4th gases go up, and to see if they're still making probes. Gases and probes mean you need to drone and overlord scout. less gases and less probes mean you need to be making units. I'm being vague because there's plenty of different builds protoss can do. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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RevolutionX
Netherlands18 Posts
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entropy.
Great Britain25 Posts
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Wildbuddha
37 Posts
On March 27 2015 16:34 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: How the fuck do I not feel like shooting myself after every single loss? I always lose to fucking retarded shit and I never improve. Id be fine with losing I got better, but I've honestly only gotten worse as I've tried harder. I know I ask this every month or so, but should I give up? I'll never be good and I need to stop trying at this for my mental health. I can't beat basic fucking gold league shit. Try this: Excess minerals mean, that your army is smaller than it should be. So the goal for your next 40 games is to keep your minerals below 600 (or any number you choose). for the first 12 minutes. If they go higher than that, leave. Do this unranked of course. Ignore anything else. You get canon rushed and lose? meh, it's unranked, who cares. don't even try to defend, just leave. You could choose other goals as well, of course, but i find that one pretty helpful. If you lose, even when you are angry as hell, tell your opponent, "thank you for the game! wp! gg!" No matter how angry you are! Even after you might have rage quitted or insulted the opponent. It helps, trust a used to be bad loser ;-) | ||
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HallBregg
134 Posts
On March 27 2015 10:39 entropy. wrote: Against gate, core, nexus you want to get ling speed off of a gas that starts no later than 3:00. This lets you have ling speed in time to kill the pylon, probe, and first round of zealots in the event of a 4 gate. If you don't see a second gas by 3:00, get the gas for ling speed. If the protoss second gas doesn't start by 4:30/25 supply (this is almost certainly a few seconds of supply out, I don't play against gate core nexus often) then it's a 4 gate, so cut at 26 drones and make lings, hunt down the pylon, probe, zealots. if you see gates going up at the front later than 5:15 then it's not a 4 gate. The best way is to go hatch gas pool, since you get your gas earlier than with pool hatch gas. Go back into gas and add a roach warren (6:00) if the pylon gets up. If you're carrying out the build you stated without gas, then stay on 2 bases for longer and defend with queen, spine (only add them if you see a 4 gate), slow-ling. Cut drones at 30 before making units. double gas at 5:00 to 5:10 and get a roach warren at 6:00, then take a later third base (usually at 7:00), or if you scout another build than a 4 gate, take your third at 6:00. you want to have macro benchmarks that aren't set to time. 6:00 is good, but a little late for getting your lair tech in time to stop an immortal push. Many pros use the 28 drone mark. This is usually at 5:35. Your question is really aimed at the difference between forge openers and gate core nexus openers, and how to scout/react correctly. You need to see when the 2nd, 3rd and 4th gases go up, and to see if they're still making probes. Gases and probes mean you need to drone and overlord scout. less gases and less probes mean you need to be making units. I'm being vague because there's plenty of different builds protoss can do. Thank you and Defenestrator for the answers! The fact is that I face gate/core/nexus very little and when I do I feel very uneasy to drone since I fear an atack at any moment. If I make units but the toss doesn't attack, should I go attack myself? I wonder why this is not more used seems very difficuld for the zerg player to react properly (at least at lower levels). | ||
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entropy.
Great Britain25 Posts
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
*Questions* -I was watching vibe's stream and he was describing a concept he called "aggro." He said that every unit has a range at which it initiates its attack when on a-move. I could be mistaken, but I believe it's different from the "normal" range. Is this true? -Often when stacking drones at game start, you will have a larva pop up for a fraction of a second while you're stacking the workers. Is it still worth it to stack at this point? | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On March 27 2015 23:31 TRaFFiC wrote: -I was watching vibe's stream and he was describing a concept he called "aggro." He said that every unit has a range at which it initiates its attack when on a-move. I could be mistaken, but I believe it's different from the "normal" range. Is this true? Yes, it's actually called scan range which is different from the unit's attack range. The most common (and meaningful) example of this is stalkers dying to widow mines they could shoot down, because their scan range is smaller than their actual range and they don't "see" the widow mines. here's a video on the thing | ||
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
To explain it: at the start of every game, if I try to select my hatch and I press 'S'-'D' too quickly, nothing will happen. Most games I just select the hatch and press 'sdsdsdsd' to be sure the first drone starts soon enough, and only then I start sending my overlord and stuff. This can be very troublesome, especially when I take 5/10 seconds to notice it (like after the gl hf and camera hotkeys). | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On March 28 2015 01:16 AbouSV wrote: Am I the only that always have difficulties to start the first drone? To explain it: at the start of every game, if I try to select my hatch and I press 'S'-'D' too quickly, nothing will happen. Most games I just select the hatch and press 'sdsdsdsd' to be sure the first drone starts soon enough, and only then I start sending my overlord and stuff. This can be very troublesome, especially when I take 5/10 seconds to notice it (like after the gl hf and camera hotkeys). Make sure to get visual confirmation of your actions. Lost quite a few games b/c that lair I thought I built wasn't even started or the rw I made still a drone chilling. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On March 28 2015 01:16 AbouSV wrote: Am I the only that always have difficulties to start the first drone? To explain it: at the start of every game, if I try to select my hatch and I press 'S'-'D' too quickly, nothing will happen. Most games I just select the hatch and press 'sdsdsdsd' to be sure the first drone starts soon enough, and only then I start sending my overlord and stuff. This can be very troublesome, especially when I take 5/10 seconds to notice it (like after the gl hf and camera hotkeys). i never ever have this problem unless i just bungle the keypress on my keyboard. i can't imagine why you would have that issue other than computer performance concerns? maybe play on a lower setting? or maybe your keyboard is unreliable? | ||
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MoosyDoosy
United States4519 Posts
On March 28 2015 02:24 brickrd wrote: i never ever have this problem unless i just bungle the keypress on my keyboard. i can't imagine why you would have that issue other than computer performance concerns? maybe play on a lower setting? or maybe your keyboard is unreliable? I used to have this issue too while using a wireless rubber dome keyboard. This doesn't occur anymore with my Razer Blackwidow, so I think it might be the keyboard's fault for him too. | ||
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fethers
United States19 Posts
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