The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 83

On May 22 2013 05:09 govie wrote:


I make 1 addon at a time when i go 3rax after expand. Techlab first for research, the reactors take a long time and i dont wanna risk a early timing.

On May 22 2013 05:15 NoZyneighbor wrote:


It really just a numbers game and your build Chaggi, if you immediately make reactors on the 2 raxes you are only producing off one rax if the last rax is not producing a techlab, while your opponent is producing off 2 to 3 raxes.

If he does do a very aggressive reaper opening you might have to pull scvs depending on what build you do. So if you go for 3 raxes you will have to continue marine production until you are sure he is not going for reaper aggression.

Another thing that could help is to pull some scvs to tank for your marines forcing the reapering player to micro his reapers around the scvs to kill the marines and also pulling back your weakened marines will help your overall hold against 2 to 3 rax reaper openings.

Plus you can afford to lose a couple scvs as your expo is much faster than your opponents allowing you to catch up and overtake him in scvs

one techlab for research only is the best move to make

On May 22 2013 21:08 A Wild Sosd wrote:
What are you guys doing in TvT nowadays. I can't seem to win I do the marine hellion expand and can often catch 1/1/1 pushes in the middle of the map and hold them off for a while but after that I feel like they just pole through me with their follow up push. How should I follow up this opener if I want to transition into bio tank. Currently I'm dropping a 2nd gas 2 more rax and an eBay whole putting the star port on the reactor getting a tech lab on the factory and starting stim. Then depending on what I see with the poke I either drop 2 more rax or a 3rd CC. Is there anything wrong with what I am doing? When Gould I get my 3rd and 4th gases?

Thanks in advance

On May 22 2013 21:08 A Wild Sosd wrote:
What are you guys doing in TvT nowadays. I can't seem to win I do the marine hellion expand and can often catch 1/1/1 pushes in the middle of the map and hold them off for a while but after that I feel like they just pole through me with their follow up push. How should I follow up this opener if I want to transition into bio tank. Currently I'm dropping a 2nd gas 2 more rax and an eBay whole putting the star port on the reactor getting a tech lab on the factory and starting stim. Then depending on what I see with the poke I either drop 2 more rax or a 3rd CC. Is there anything wrong with what I am doing? When Gould I get my 3rd and 4th gases?

Thanks in advance

Q. What are the standard recommended strategies per match-up?
- Hide Spoiler [Answer] -
TvT
Gas 15 Marine Marine reactor CC fact port with Reactor Hellions + Viking(s) or Medivac before a bio or mech transition. Bogus/Innovation vs Flash, Neo Planet S, MLG.
If you see any reference about the "LG-IM build order," it's about the core of this build.

On May 21 2013 07:00 suicideyear wrote:


Innovation 3CC Reactored Hellion - when the time comes to build two engineering bays, build one E-bay and one armory. if you're starting your armory and engineering bay around 6:35ish, then you should be beginning reactored hellbat production around 8 minutes

it hits later than 2 base drops, but you have the option of going 4M + Hellbats instead of more or less having to go straight to mech otherwise

On May 23 2013 01:39 Dvriel wrote:


This BO and many other eco focused with early CC in main in TvZ are a lot of troubles for me lately. Every single TvZ I face early aggression. Just dont know what to do...If there is CC first they come with ling-bane aggression and there is nothing for me enough to defend. I even face 7-8 min 10 Roach push. I am forced to do the Bombers Build for some months ago opening with 1rax expand, 2 hellions to scout and tank immediatly and still...If there is Wall in may natural they kill it with roach or lings.Tanks and mines are not early enough to defend....Any suggestions?

On May 23 2013 03:44 Smackzilla wrote:


Seeing lots of early roach too. I'm going 12/12 Reaper FE (2 reapers) and suiciding a reaper at 5:15 - 5:30 to see if a roach warren is building. If so I'll build marauders off of rax #1 (I always put a lab on the rax after the reactor swap with fact #1). That and maybe an extra bunker or two have been enough.

I stick with making hellions, but I want to experiment with trying to squeeze a tank out in time. OP recommends sticking on hellions to punish failed attempts by zerg, though (re: CC first getting roach pressure, TvZ early game).

On May 23 2013 06:40 Dvriel wrote:


I was looking in the OP and there is nothing about early Roaches. They are not 7,they are coming 10 and more rallied...You cant stop this with one bunker+6 hellions!!! They are killing lots of SCVs and 3rd CC doesnt pay...

On May 23 2013 07:01 AKomrade wrote:

Yeah, haven't asked cause I didn't want to be dismissed, but these are large forces of roaches hitting that timing. 3 CC doesn't make up for the worker or mining time loss.

On May 23 2013 07:01 AKomrade wrote:

Yeah, haven't asked cause I didn't want to be dismissed, but these are large forces of roaches hitting that timing. 3 CC doesn't make up for the worker or mining time loss.

On May 23 2013 07:42 TheDwf wrote:

If you see Zerg mining gas beyond 100 and want to get a single Tank in case of agression, go reaper reaper CC fact reactor (no immediate swap) CC lab (made by the fact). Build 4 Marines on the reactor rax to fill your Bunker and one Tank on the lab fact before swapping for Hellions + stim. See Taeja vs LosirA, Bel'shir Vestige, Code S RO32 and FanTaSy vs TRUE, Star Station, Code S RO32.

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There are examples in the OP of pro Terrans holding Baneling busts or Roaches pushes. When going CC rax gas fact reactor CC, I have held Baneling busts, 10+ Roaches pushes, Roaches/Zerglings and early Roaches/Baneling busts using the method described in the OP (naturally extra bunkers are needed to hold Banelings). Against Roach agression without Banelings, Roaches can't destroy your Bunker if your SCVs are already ready nearby to repair. Even if there are 12 of them (Roaches), the Bunker survives with mass repair, so what happens is that Zerg simply trades his Roaches for your repairing SCVs. Usually I lose 8-12 of them.

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Yes it does. You can lose 15 SCVs and still be ahead against Roaches pushes because even if Zerg can equalize economy-wise, he has no creep spread and delayed tech (Lair and/or upgrades).

On May 23 2013 08:11 Jazzman88 wrote:


You'd be surprised how much of that is the mental side of the equation. I played a TvZ on Derelict Watcher not 30 minutes ago where the Zerg went Roach/Ling all-in with no natural Drones on me, and I won easily despite mismanaging the SCV repairs on the Bunker.

What TheDwf described in terms of mitigating the loss and trading repair SCVs for Roaches is accurate, and remember that if the Zerg went for THAT many units early, he has absolutely zero saturation of his expansion, let alone being economically 'ahead'. Plus you have triple mule. In the case of my game, I hilariously misclicked the repair and the Bunker died instantly. Widow Mine shots did some damage, but there were still 8 Roaches in my main. I kept making Marauders, pulled SCVs when necessary to tank, rebuilt the wall as fast as possible, and went into standard bio play, except I added Hellbats to take advantage of my high mule count. There was just no way for the Zerg to simultaneously pressure enough to hold back the economic edge of 3CC at the same time as recovering their own economy. Something had to give, and as it turned out, by sticking around even in what looked pretty bleak, I ended the game with a 3-2 to 0-1 upgrade lead (he had no gas because he needed Banelings to defend the pushes) and up 5 bases to 2.

Moral of the story: getting all-inned sucks and when you hold just barely and lose a ton of workers, you FEEL behind. But you are not until you see what your opponent has. Play it out a little bit more until it's a certain defeat, and you'll win a surprising percentage of games you would have otherwise considered forfeit.

On May 23 2013 07:13 Henk wrote:


As master zerg, I like doing the 10 Roach push vs a CC first. Some timings I use which might help you identify: 15H 16P 17G. I then get 2 queens and drone to 28. Then put down roach warren, replace drone, and make 3 overlords. I then make 6 roaches out of the main, and 2+2 out of natural for a total of 10 (Main roaches will have to travel a bit more, so I have a 'wave' of 8+2 roaches moving across the field, if you may).

On May 23 2013 10:49 AKomrade wrote:
Also, how do you deal with infestor compositions as 4M? Switch factory production into tanks/hellbats?

On May 23 2013 07:13 Henk wrote:


As master zerg, I like doing the 10 Roach push vs a CC first. Some timings I use which might help you identify: 15H 16P 17G. I then get 2 queens and drone to 28. Then put down roach warren, replace drone, and make 3 overlords. I then make 6 roaches out of the main, and 2+2 out of natural for a total of 10 (Main roaches will have to travel a bit more, so I have a 'wave' of 8+2 roaches moving across the field, if you may).

This usually does a ton of damage because very few terrans defend this well. You gotta scout and get marauders or a really early tank in time. Note: After this push, I pump more roaches and add 3 more gas at 7:45. I take my lair and keep pumping roaches, and hit with 30-40 roaches when roach speed finishes. I then take a third and place my spire - drone up, and techswitch into mutas.

This works extremely well and is just what DRG does (I got the build off him), because it requires a ton of good scouting to anticipate the roaches and the muta techswitch.

So yeah I hope this helps you to identify the build and know what to do against it.

On May 24 2013 19:32 Chaggi wrote:
What's the response to a double forge from the Protoss? I've never done anything different but the casters seem to always imply that there is a different response?

On May 24 2013 19:50 Bwall wrote:

If you scout double forge you will most likely not be under attack for a long time, and you can get a faster third and double e-bays. It depends on how early you scout it aswell, and how good you can adjust to different builds. I don't know your skill level, but I never change my build, because I'm not good enough at adapting and I'd be better off just following my practised build.