EPTHTOmario mechs all matchups, and he has replay packs, need to be more specific in what you think is super standard.
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 85
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Emporium
England162 Posts
HTOmario mechs all matchups, and he has replay packs, need to be more specific in what you think is super standard. | ||
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Sovano
United States1503 Posts
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
What is your opinion on a base-trade and counterattack centric style in all matchups where my army can't stand up to my opponents? Is it generally better to attempt the defense at home near my bases with a possible chance of winning, or just initiate a base race and attempt to gain an advantage that way? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 24 2013 19:32 Chaggi wrote: What's the response to a double forge from the Protoss? I've never done anything different but the casters seem to always imply that there is a different response? There is no universal answer since dual forge can support different things; you don't react the same way against a 5'45 dual forge heading for a 2-0-2 zeal/archons 2-bases all-in and a 8'30 dual forge + Colossi going for a 3-0-3 Storm-less army. The lowest common denominator of dual forge builds is passivity until at least 2-0-2. Dual forge gives Protoss an inherent tech advantage (due to the chronoboost mechanic + the MSC safety belt protecting Protoss from "greed accidents"), so you need to counterbalance that in some way, i. e. hitting a timing before the dual forge delivers (before 2-0-2 or 3-0-3) or compensating his upgrade advantage with an army advantage coming from an econ advantage (hence 3 rax third while delaying/disrupting his own third the best you can). Early Armory + second EB are also played in order not to fall too much behind upgrades-wise, though of course you can never outupgrade a Protoss if his build is really upgrades-focused with early forges. If, during the game, you have any opportunity to snipe his two forges with for example a dual Marauder drop, by all means do it since it resets the time bomb. On May 24 2013 21:53 A Wild Sosd wrote: If a Protoss pokes with zealot stalker msc and I have no bunker do I just lose the game or lose a shit ton of SCVs or is their a way to hold this off without a bunker? Depends on what you have. You can pull many SCVs to surround his ground units while focusing the MSC with your Marines (or simply stalling for more Marines). Naturally, the best answer is just to avoid this situation. On May 25 2013 06:20 SHODAN wrote: Dwf, I am struggling against a style that GM toss are using on EU. It starts with them opening mothership core/stalker into nexus. then they'll add about 2 sentries, a robo, then a forge before starting additional gates. gateway #2 is started at 6:05 2 cannons started at ~6:50 (earlier if I were to go gas first) protoss ground armor is started ~7:00 3 observers at ~9:20 they'll add (off of just 2 fucking gates), a robotics bay, twilight, 2nd forge, then 3 additional gateways. they typically have +2 armor +1 attack by 12:30. how would you play against this? I took a few games using early tank pushes and setting up a hard contain at his natural - went up to 5 raxx, bunkers, SCVs repairing, zoned out his colossus and he had too few gateways to break out. I usually open with reaper into 1-1-1. photon overcharge + stalkers easily bat away marine/mine drops, but I've had some success when I follow it up with hellions/raven (a la Gumiho) to attack both mineral lines at once. I usually get vastly behind on upgrades, and maybe I should be playing greedier. I feel that if I play too greedy (i.e. double engi bay + 3rd CC before raxx #4/#5), I won't have enough units out in time to delay his third. itt seems sC and Gumiho are always opting for the single raven vP. playing a protoss without observers is awesome, but again, I'm delaying medivacs/raxx that are needed to stop him from taking a 3rd base for free. one last question - I heard Innovation wrote a guide on SCV timings vs. protoss. do you know if this has been translated yet? Personally, after Reaper expand I play a quick EB and 3 rax Medivacs, then going for a ~9'30 Armory and second EB before a 3 rax third, which allows me to have 2/2 at 13'45. I don't understand, why do they build their Robotics Bay this late? Even if they have to concede some defensive measures against your 1-1-1 pressure, it sounds needlessly late. But maybe it's just an impression. Or is it single Colossus without range into Storm? How many Colossi do they play afterwards before Templar tech? I didn't see the games in which sC and GuMiho built a Raven. You mean you swap the factory on the reactor for Hellions after you send your drop, and get a Raven before your bio transition? If you delay your bio transition this way, it really has to pay off in terms of Probes kills. You probably have troubles because your 1-1-1 phase likely lasts too long compared to the results it yields (i. e. in the end, you slow down your development more than his). 200 gas is a huge deal at this time since you have to get bio tech, Medivacs and +1, and a later stim + Medivac push indeed allows him to take his third earlier uncontested, which is not good at all with his early forge. When I play Reaper expand into 1-1-1, I go the standard rax rax lab lab EB gas bio transition directly afterwards (unless I want to head for a 2-bases bio/Tanks push of course). Maybe the best way to play behind your heavier harass is simply to go third + dual EB before powering +4 rax and bio tech, the way Hellions/Banshees builds vs P were played by LucifroN or GuMiho in the last weeks of WoL, but you really have to make sure Protoss is pinned at home without any way to just kill you while you build your bio infrastructure (which should be OK though given their build). For Bogus' guide, I don't know. On May 25 2013 09:45 AndySCWilson wrote: Low Masters Zerg - High Diamond Random - REALLY bad Terran here. How is TVZ Mech even a thing? How do you not just get checkmated by Swarm Hosts? -Andy On May 25 2013 12:20 PureEvil wrote: Make Tanks, when you get a critical mass of Tanks the splash damage will rape all the locusts, from there you have more than one option...you can outmaneuver him with BFH and threaten his economy, kill the SHs with banshees and/or raven HSM, drop hellbats on top of the SHs after the locusts spawn and move away, or just push him back with your army after your tanks rape each round of locusts. I used to be really scared of SHs when meching before, most of the time I'd straight out lose but I'm learning to deal with them and they dont scare me anymore. These days I'm more afraid of roach/hydra/viper or late game mass tech switches. This. On May 25 2013 12:02 halpimcat wrote: I've been listening to Protoss players like Artosis talking about how he'd make 1 colossus to try and force Terrans to overcommit making vikings and switch immediately into storm instead. As soon as I see colossus in the midgame I add a second starport, but is this a good way to play in case Protoss goes templar instead? What's the best way to handle the early decision to balance viking count vs ghost? By mid-late to end-game it's not so bad because you have so much time to alter that comopsition, but if Protoss goes for a huge midgame attack and I don't have the right composition it's very easy to simply die. Getting a second Starport against a single Colossus without range (scwr) is not super useful, but it's not super crippling either as you can use the extra Starport to build extra Medivacs, or simply keep it idle until later stages of the game in which it will likely be needed anyway. If you don't want to be tricked by scwr, pay attention to whether the Robotics Bay is searching something or not when you scout it, and click on the Colossus to see if he still has 6 range at some point. If you see a quick Templar Archives after scouting a Robotics Bay, there are really strong odds of Protoss going scwr. On May 26 2013 04:11 Sovano wrote: Just dropping by to say thanks for the work in the OP. Really informative! Thanks! On May 26 2013 05:35 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: @TheDwf--- What is your opinion on a base-trade and counterattack centric style in all matchups where my army can't stand up to my opponents? Is it generally better to attempt the defense at home near my bases with a possible chance of winning, or just initiate a base race and attempt to gain an advantage that way? Bookmarked, I'll answer later. | ||
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XenoJesus
United States72 Posts
http://drop.sc/337910 Thank you! | ||
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vertex09
Sweden5 Posts
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Smackzilla
United States539 Posts
On May 25 2013 08:52 KamiDaHobo wrote: Hey guys, Silver level Terran here. I've been doing Filter's tutorials and having great success, but a weak link in my play is definitely multitasking, and micro. Now, I know that both of these things are 'practice makes perfect' aspects to Starcraft, but does anyone have any helpful hints? My macro is relatively strong compared to my micro, which is mediocre even on a good day. While I love doing the Filter 1rax fast expand build against all matchups, it feels like macro practice moreso than a viable build to really go up the ranks. Am I wrong here, and should just continue on my path to 1rax fe mastery? Or should I spice things up and focus a bit on micro and mutliple engagements? I'm at a crossroads and a little lost on which direction is the proper way to go. Thanks for the help! I'd wager macro still needs to be your focus. You can upload your replays to ggtracker.com and get some objective measurements for how your macro compares others. Also, I think a little attention to army composition and army control are higher priority than multitasking. The efficiency of a Terran army seems especially dependent on these things. But, to answer your question, what about reaper FEs? Still macro oriented but encourage multitasking early on. Plus they give you valuable scouting. You can start asking questions like "when should I look", "what should I look for", and "what's the proper response". | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On May 27 2013 04:16 SamirDuran wrote: I hope there's a helbat nerf. I'm being forced to play the composition I don't want to play (mech). Does anyone here still plays bio on TvT? Bio TvT is still really, really strong. You have to get a much heavier marauder composition in the mid-late game than in WoL (I actually go as high as 3-1 tech lab to reactor ratio) and either into a very quick air switch on 3 base or (The style I prefer to play) go for a tank heavy composition (1 fact per base constant tank production). In terms of Hellions vs Hellbats, Hellbats are much strong in terms of defending a position than Hellions were because of the higher health so you need to be more careful about attacking into strong positions held by mech. However, Hellbats are less mobile making them worse at dealing with drops and Medivacs make it easier to find holes in Turret Rings to deal damage or to go for a big doom drop. It also works the same in terms of your opponent's attacks; with Hellbats, their straight up push is going to be stronger, but they're going to be worse at dealing with flanks and counter attacks because their meat shield is less mobile. If you're dieing to Hellbat drops, I don't know why playing mech would make them any easier to hold. | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On May 27 2013 04:16 SamirDuran wrote: I hope there's a helbat nerf. I'm being forced to play the composition I don't want to play (mech). Does anyone here still plays bio on TvT? Bio can be very strong against mech. Check out the SPL VoDs on YouTube for many games where bio and mech are played in all their variations (Flash, Fantasy, and Taeja all are skilled with both sides of the bio/mech equation). The general philosophy versus mech should be to pull it apart. I play at least 50% mech in TvT, and a high Marauder count hitting repeatedly at my outlying bases is very hard to deal with. Remember, Marauder's armor plus their high DPS versus mech units means that you can stim them repeatedly and even when they're in the yellow or red they will still deal incredible damage to mech and outpace it every single time. Also, even if you manage to only deadlock your position versus mech, bio has a great opportunity to go for a sky switch because bio uses so little gas. When the map starts getting clogged, throw down 3-5 Starports and get a bunch of Ravens, Vikings, and Battlecruisers. It's very hard for mech to make that transition behind yours if they don't already have substantial air control. | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
yes, I always die to helbat drops. Don't know where I went wrong. I always put static defenses but when the helbat drops gets thru it always deal massive damages to my workers. Do I have to build marauders to deal with them? What should I do? And 100% of KR masters terran always go mech and helbat drops and I don't improve so I need of help. sorry for the grammar | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On May 27 2013 04:53 SamirDuran wrote: yes, I always die to helbat drops. Don't know where I went wrong. I always put static defenses but when the helbat drops gets thru it always deal massive damages to my workers. Do I have to build marauders to deal with them? What should I do? And 100% of KR masters terran always go mech and helbat drops and I don't improve so I need of help. sorry for the grammar You just need 1 turret in your mineral line (each if you expanded early, but it's better to just defend on one base vs one base hellbat drops) and a small group of bio also in your mineral line (can even be pure marines, but marauders are better). If he tries to boost into your mineral line target down the medivac while stutter stepping back with your bio. If he commits to the attack you'll kill the medivac before he can drop the hellbats over your army, if he drops outside you'll just kite the hellbats to death. Work towards getting medivacs out and securing your expansion ASAP. | ||
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Juice!
Belgium295 Posts
Keeping in mind i don't care about it being viable on pro level or whatsoever and i have no intention of becomming GM. My only desire is to stick in master (which i reached by pure mech TvT, TvZ and TvP!) and MAYBE (very maybe) reach high master. Or do i have to learn BIO and start playing BIO in all my MU (or at least in TvZ/TvP) to reach a stable mid (high) masters? | ||
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
On May 27 2013 06:38 Juice! wrote: Is Mech in all MU ok (playable) on low/mid (maybe high) master EU? Keeping in mind i don't care about it being viable on pro level or whatsoever and i have no intention of becomming GM. My only desire is to stick in master (which i reached by pure mech TvT, TvZ and TvP!) and MAYBE (very maybe) reach high master. Or do i have to learn BIO and start playing BIO in all my MU (or at least in TvZ/TvP) to reach a stable mid (high) masters? The only matchup you will have some problems going mech is TvP (TvT it's one of the standard builds, and if Stephano and Dimaga can lose to mech, so will anyone on EU). Strelok has been using mech in TvP to some success, Day9 did a daily on it: http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-575-mech-vs-protoss/ Also HTOMario is playing pure mech at a high masters level, check it out here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404812 You can check out the mech thread as well, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396525 Best of luck! | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
On May 23 2013 07:13 Henk wrote: As master zerg, I like doing the 10 Roach push vs a CC first. Some timings I use which might help you identify: 15H 16P 17G. I then get 2 queens and drone to 28. Then put down roach warren, replace drone, and make 3 overlords. I then make 6 roaches out of the main, and 2+2 out of natural for a total of 10 (Main roaches will have to travel a bit more, so I have a 'wave' of 8+2 roaches moving across the field, if you may). This usually does a ton of damage because very few terrans defend this well. You gotta scout and get marauders or a really early tank in time. Note: After this push, I pump more roaches and add 3 more gas at 7:45. I take my lair and keep pumping roaches, and hit with 30-40 roaches when roach speed finishes. I then take a third and place my spire - drone up, and techswitch into mutas. This works extremely well and is just what DRG does (I got the build off him), because it requires a ton of good scouting to anticipate the roaches and the muta techswitch. So yeah I hope this helps you to identify the build and know what to do against it. Thank you sir, this was exactly what I needed to read to help vs this strat. | ||
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Juice!
Belgium295 Posts
On May 27 2013 06:51 DJHelium wrote: The only matchup you will have some problems going mech is TvP (TvT it's one of the standard builds, and if Stephano and Dimaga can lose to mech, so will anyone on EU). Strelok has been using mech in TvP to some success, Day9 did a daily on it: http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-575-mech-vs-protoss/ Also HTOMario is playing pure mech at a high masters level, check it out here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404812 You can check out the mech thread as well, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396525 Best of luck! Well to be honest i have no idea why but TvP is kinda my best MU =) probably because the P's i face don't know how to react to mech but still  My biggest problem is TvZ sadly  But thank you very much for your comment! | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On May 27 2013 17:10 Juice! wrote: Well to be honest i have no idea why but TvP is kinda my best MU =) probably because the P's i face don't know how to react to mech but still My biggest problem is TvZ sadly But thank you very much for your comment! I believe the original question gave himself the answer allready. If mech is what brought u there and others mechans are still on that level and that ur goal is maintaining that level, why would u even consider changing to bio? | ||
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Juice!
Belgium295 Posts
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Juice!
Belgium295 Posts
On May 27 2013 17:27 govie wrote: I believe the original question gave himself the answer allready. If mech is what brought u there and others mechans are still on that level and that ur goal is maintaining that level, why would u even consider changing to bio? Because people i know/in my clan are putting the idea in my head i have to play bio in order to improve (more) | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On May 27 2013 18:34 Juice! wrote: Because people i know/in my clan are putting the idea in my head i have to play bio in order to improve (more) If your goal is not being a pro and/or GM etc (maybe even making some money with sc2), the question if mech is viable or bio is better doesnt really exist. Apparantly your a master mechan and u have fun doing it, I'd say "keep it up!" | ||
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