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On October 18 2014 07:43 Grizvok wrote: I love the Cure build. I've been finding TvP really fun by ramping up aggression on two bases.
What is this Cure build you speak of? I need to get back on the wagon with TvP; I've been doing this really stupid cheese start for a few seasons to "skip" the match up -- 90%+ win rate against diamond and masters just because it's really dumb and unexpected. I'd like to actually start playing the match up again, though.
What, pray, is this cheese you speak of? The Cure build, if I'm correct, is the one he used vs Zest in the Ro16 of the GSL? http://www.twitch.tv/gsl/b/562381175
I think this is relevant?
Oh perfect, yeah thanks! Didn't know Day9 did a daily on it but I just learned quite a lot.
There's something I wanted to ask you guys about. I'm new to T so my macro slips real bad especially with awful mule-hammer related cash injections. What are you guys' thoughts on prioritizing scans to aid aggression over muling? It seems like it could be really good against players of my skill calibre if I'm able to more reliably catch them out of position or snipe observers or even scouting related stuff like constantly check his army position + size, rather than have these awkward bumps in my macro.
I'd say mule until you have 8 barracks/3 total of starports/factories, which is the standard 3base infrastructure. From there I usually save my mules to to scan for vision and positioning and to effectively mulehammer on bases I know i won't hold for very long.
On October 17 2014 09:10 NexT_SC2 wrote: Could someone tell me a macro tvz build order in the current meta? Preferably one of Innovation's builds. Btw I'm a gold player aiming for plat.
Thanks
definitively maraudeur hellbat push : CC 1st with 2 rax for early marauder production !!! (but no medivac for the initial push) MarineKing(PRIME) vs hyvaa(MVP) Set2 on Frost [SPL2014]
10 depot 14 CC 15 rax 17 rax 18 gas 19 gas 2xOC & 2xmarines factory + reactor/rax(1) techlab/rax(2) depot(2) (@24/30 or 5'04) @100 gas STIM + marauder (5:20) 2x hellions + reactor/rax(1) (or techlab depends on your choice) + depot(3) (@5'43 or 30/38) continuous 2x marines 1x maraudeur cycle (or 2x marauder cycle is also ok) armory @6'45 PUSH out 7'20 (+4scv)
I don't think I'd necessarily call this a "macro build." Actually very not macro oriented to be honest.
I see with people like you, we could discuss this ad vitam eternam : "Is CC 1st into pressure all-inish ?" Discuss....
I think my advice will fit his expectation perfectly. Your input is as good as nothing. No need to plant an early 3rd CC to call your build "macro". Discuss.... lolz
On October 20 2014 23:47 KtJ wrote: Should i always wall-in?
Against Zerg, yes. Against Protoss, generally no, though building your first depot as part of the wall is useful so you can quickly close it should you scout proxy gates. Against Terran, it's up to you.
On October 17 2014 09:10 NexT_SC2 wrote: Could someone tell me a macro tvz build order in the current meta? Preferably one of Innovation's builds. Btw I'm a gold player aiming for plat.
Thanks
definitively maraudeur hellbat push : CC 1st with 2 rax for early marauder production !!! (but no medivac for the initial push) MarineKing(PRIME) vs hyvaa(MVP) Set2 on Frost [SPL2014] http://youtu.be/XELLeSKNCjs
10 depot 14 CC 15 rax 17 rax 18 gas 19 gas 2xOC & 2xmarines factory + reactor/rax(1) techlab/rax(2) depot(2) (@24/30 or 5'04) @100 gas STIM + marauder (5:20) 2x hellions + reactor/rax(1) (or techlab depends on your choice) + depot(3) (@5'43 or 30/38) continuous 2x marines 1x maraudeur cycle (or 2x marauder cycle is also ok) armory @6'45 PUSH out 7'20 (+4scv)
I don't think I'd necessarily call this a "macro build." Actually very not macro oriented to be honest.
I see with people like you, we could discuss this ad vitam eternam : "Is CC 1st into pressure all-inish ?" Discuss....
I think my advice will fit his expectation perfectly. Your input is as good as nothing. No need to plant an early 3rd CC to call your build "macro". Discuss.... lolz
Your build actually meets zero criteria for what he wanted. Neither is it oriented around macro and the later game nor is it in any way something innovation would do. You need to be a special kind of stupid to be given the criteria of "innovation like and macro and come up with a Marauder Hellion build recommendation.
Don't get salty when you get called out for recommending something not even close to what was asked. It will be okay dude I think you'll make it.
On October 20 2014 23:47 KtJ wrote: Should i always wall-in?
Against Zerg, yes. Against Protoss, generally no, though building your first depot as part of the wall is useful so you can quickly close it should you scout proxy gates. Against Terran, it's up to you.
I agree with Zerg and Protoss but against Terran I prefer not to wall in with rax because if your opponent goes proxy marauder you will most likely lost both your supply depots.
On October 20 2014 23:47 KtJ wrote: Should i always wall-in?
Against Zerg, yes. Against Protoss, generally no, though building your first depot as part of the wall is useful so you can quickly close it should you scout proxy gates. Against Terran, it's up to you.
I agree with Zerg and Protoss but against Terran I prefer not to wall in with rax because if your opponent goes proxy marauder you will most likely lost both your supply depots.
havn't seen a proxy rauder since like 2012...
I dislike wallin in vs protoss since I'll lose 2 depots and an addon to any 1 base all in which forces me to evacuate my nat. and I TvT I generally don't wall in for the more greedy style. No reason not to. TvZ I always walls in, sometimes I play it risky with no wall then I feel like the biggest baller in the world ^^
On October 20 2014 23:47 KtJ wrote: Should i always wall-in?
Against Zerg, yes. Against Protoss, generally no, though building your first depot as part of the wall is useful so you can quickly close it should you scout proxy gates. Against Terran, it's up to you.
I agree with Zerg and Protoss but against Terran I prefer not to wall in with rax because if your opponent goes proxy marauder you will most likely lost both your supply depots.
It deppends but making a wall-in with your first 3 deppots helps against hellion based play, it has its pros and its cons it.
Assuming you're not trying to get to masters and only want to play a few games a week--what is the argument against learning to execute timing attacks instead of macro based play?
On October 21 2014 03:16 Thieving Magpie wrote: Assuming you're not trying to get to masters and only want to play a few games a week--what is the argument against learning to execute timing attacks instead of macro based play?
I personally don't think theres a difference, however you play the game is up to you, I myself I'm someone who prefers aggresive timings and all ins to macro, people will tell you that you won't get better at the game but thats just some strange elitist feeling, there are GMs/pros that prefer that to macro so its totally legit.
hello all ive been noticing a lot more of the ling bane corrupter style and its been making me think about about a style ive been trying but has been really hard vs the muta bane style,but i think works well vs the corrupters better. I call it the MTW style which stands for Marine Tank Windowmines style. Bio core units and tanks and mines for splash target banes with tanks spread and your good.the only thing is if they notice this and go mutas instead, i would suggest to switch to thors or when attacking bring 4-5 scv for turrets.
edit: i guess i should talk more about it, i normally do the flash opening reaper reactor expo into marine drop hellion run by, and depending on what i see ill go mines and then around getting 2-2 get 2nd factory make tanks, and the opposite if i see them going aggro make tanks into tank mines.i like to micro my mines up first setting them up and then moving my army up just in cause the bum rush you all you need to do is siege and split then trying to do it all at once.again if your trying this and see mutas you need to make turrets as you attack and set mines up around your tanks but not to where the splash will kill them.Also alot of the time they will go into broods from seeing tanks so scout alot and drop.
On October 21 2014 03:34 starslayer wrote: hello all ive been noticing a lot more of the ling bane corrupter style and its been making me think about about a style ive been trying but has been really hard vs the muta bane style,but i think works well vs the corrupters better. I call it the MTW style which stands for Marine Tank Windowmines style. Bio core units and tanks and mines for splash target banes with tanks spread and your good.the only thing is if they notice this and go mutas instead, i would suggest to switch to thors or when attacking bring 4-5 scv for turrets.
edit: i guess i should talk more about it, i normally do the flash opening reaper reactor expo into marine drop hellion run by, and depending on what i see ill go mines and then around getting 2-2 get 2nd factory make tanks, and the opposite if i see them going aggro make tanks into tank mines.i like to micro my mines up first setting them up and then moving my army up just in cause the bum rush you all you need to do is siege and split then trying to do it all at once.again if your trying this and see mutas you need to make turrets as you attack and set mines up around your tanks but not to where the splash will kill them.Also alot of the time they will go into broods from seeing tanks so scout alot and drop.
Isn't ling bane corruptor specially designed as a reaction to counter Thor/hellbat/bio armies? I mean no zerg would make corruptor if they see tanks/mines instead of thors/helions, would they? Or am I missing something?
On October 20 2014 23:47 KtJ wrote: Should i always wall-in?
Against Zerg, yes. Against Protoss, generally no, though building your first depot as part of the wall is useful so you can quickly close it should you scout proxy gates. Against Terran, it's up to you.
I agree with Zerg and Protoss but against Terran I prefer not to wall in with rax because if your opponent goes proxy marauder you will most likely lost both your supply depots.
It deppends but making a wall-in with your first 3 deppots helps against hellion based play, it has its pros and its cons it.
On October 21 2014 06:22 KtJ wrote: How should i react to a fast expand as Terran?
You are Terran. In general you should probably be expanding early yourself. I dunno. Terran doesn't really seem to be able to punish the opponent very early game. I think the smart play is to play as equally greedy as your opponent to stay on even footing when things go into the mid game.
On October 21 2014 03:16 Thieving Magpie wrote: Assuming you're not trying to get to masters and only want to play a few games a week--what is the argument against learning to execute timing attacks instead of macro based play?
I personally don't think theres a difference, however you play the game is up to you, I myself I'm someone who prefers aggresive timings and all ins to macro, people will tell you that you won't get better at the game but thats just some strange elitist feeling, there are GMs/pros that prefer that to macro so its totally legit.
I don't think there is a difference either really. You need to be able to "macro" efficiently to pull off an all in or properly execute a timing attack. I mean an early triple orbital cc build against Zerg is very focused on playing a drawn out macro game but you are generally planning to attack when your 2/2 finishes which can be considered a "timing attack."
Basically you learn to effectively macro so that your timings are crisp and so that if your eventual all in or committed push doesn't end the game (but causes damage) you can take your lead and further it with strong macro play. Aka more bases more units better upgrades.
On October 21 2014 06:22 KtJ wrote: How should i react to a fast expand as Terran?
You are Terran. In general you should probably be expanding early yourself. I dunno. Terran doesn't really seem to be able to punish the opponent very early game. I think the smart play is to play as equally greedy as your opponent to stay on even footing when things go into the mid game.
EPT
I need to get back on the wagon with TvP; I've been doing this really stupid cheese start for a few seasons to "skip" the match up -- 90%+ win rate against diamond and masters just because it's really dumb and unexpected. I'd like to actually start playing the match up again, though.
