EPTAll really i'm a noob.
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 319
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
All really i'm a noob. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
If can macro and scout then reaper openings are good because you have full information and can read yourself to defend all-ins and punish greedy play. If you can't macro and scout then reaper openings is a waste of 50-100 gas. Edit: For context, the time it takes to mine 50gas + a refinery, you could have just gone 1rax cc a minute faster. If you don't use your reapers you're better off going gas less fast expand + whining how no one does anything but cheese since you can't tell what they're doing. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On October 19 2014 03:26 Thieving Magpie wrote: If can macro and scout then reaper openings are good because you have full information and can read yourself to defend all-ins and punish greedy play. If you can't macro and scout then reaper openings is a waste of 50-100 gas. Edit: For context, the time it takes to mine 50gas + a refinery, you could have just gone 1rax cc a minute faster. If you don't use your reapers you're better off going gas less fast expand + whining how no one does anything but cheese since you can't tell what they're doing. You might as well take the time to learn how to scout with reaper while still doing your build right. you'll have to auto-pilot (e.g. no harassing) if you're at lower level but it should be doable. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On October 19 2014 03:26 Thieving Magpie wrote: If can macro and scout then reaper openings are good because you have full information and can read yourself to defend all-ins and punish greedy play. If you can't macro and scout then reaper openings is a waste of 50-100 gas. Edit: For context, the time it takes to mine 50gas + a refinery, you could have just gone 1rax cc a minute faster. If you don't use your reapers you're better off going gas less fast expand + whining how no one does anything but cheese since you can't tell what they're doing. Micro with reaper opening is not THAT important, the big thing about reaper expand as a low league build is that you don't need that much game knowleadge to defend cheeses/all ins, when going CC first or something greedy you need a very solid plan on what you are doing to be safe, have great controll and decision making. Having a reaper poking here and there checking for proxys, expansion, worker count, even just to have him in the entrance to the enemy base to check if anything is coming out is really helpful for setting up your defense. You don't need to have super multitask killing workers and dodging and stuff, just one look or two at the base can give a lot of information. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On October 19 2014 04:44 Incognoto wrote: Wouldn't just memorizing a safe build and executing it perfectly be enough to do well in lower leagues? What build is safer than Reaper FE? | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
On October 19 2014 03:26 Thieving Magpie wrote: If can macro and scout then reaper openings are good because you have full information and can read yourself to defend all-ins and punish greedy play. If you can't macro and scout then reaper openings is a waste of 50-100 gas. Edit: For context, the time it takes to mine 50gas + a refinery, you could have just gone 1rax cc a minute faster. If you don't use your reapers you're better off going gas less fast expand + whining how no one does anything but cheese since you can't tell what they're doing. Not really. A gasless expand is going to be much more greedy and extremely prone to early tech. Yeah it is "faster" at getting an expansion but definitely not better if you are having trouble against people constantly cheesing and doing all ins. The Reaper opening is just way more safe and if you really want to play gasless for as long as possible then go 15 gas FE for at least a little bit of safety. | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
1/1/1  | ||
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
On October 19 2014 04:42 Lexender wrote: Micro with reaper opening is not THAT important, the big thing about reaper expand as a low league build is that you don't need that much game knowleadge to defend cheeses/all ins, when going CC first or something greedy you need a very solid plan on what you are doing to be safe, have great controll and decision making. Having a reaper poking here and there checking for proxys, expansion, worker count, even just to have him in the entrance to the enemy base to check if anything is coming out is really helpful for setting up your defense. You don't need to have super multitask killing workers and dodging and stuff, just one look or two at the base can give a lot of information. Thanks man really helps. | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
I tend to take my third as the aggression ramps up near the 11'ish to 12 minute mark. I think it is a really good build for lower levels as well because with how much production you put down before the third base, it isn't too difficult to spend all of your money as it comes in. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
Oh perfect, yeah thanks! Didn't know Day9 did a daily on it but I just learned quite a lot. There's something I wanted to ask you guys about. I'm new to T so my macro slips real bad especially with awful mule-hammer related cash injections. What are you guys' thoughts on prioritizing scans to aid aggression over muling? It seems like it could be really good against players of my skill calibre if I'm able to more reliably catch them out of position or snipe observers or even scouting related stuff like constantly check his army position + size, rather than have these awkward bumps in my macro. | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
On October 19 2014 14:30 Grizvok wrote: I think you know the answer to that one. Learning to control your income to further bases/tech/units is way more important and a much more fundamental practice. That doesn't mean you don't use the energy for other things but mules should be a staple for obvious reasons. You're absolutely correct on both counts, but let me explain it from my point of view: I don't even aim on ever becoming like a masters-quality player, and even if I did I just plainly don't have the time. I learned to play Zerg in this sort of rote mechanical way, so I have a good idea of what I'm capable of, mechanically speaking, where that ceiling sits for me. I'm still lagging on my Terran but even if I'm able to reach the mechanical level of my Zerg and do a much better job of macroing, I still wouldn't be up the task, and I'd still be floating resources albeit less and at later times. I once heard someone say of Maru that he'd had an interesting arc cuz he started off being cheesy and zany but when he eventually learned how to macro like a god he was just getting so much more out of his units and his builds and that he had the sickest offensive game sense. I always thought that would be a cool way to learn SC2, especially Terran who kinda have to be aggressive lest it's turtle mech (in which case you're in anycase using more scans?) -- this idea of thriving on aggression and then systematically shoring up your holes with improved mechanics. Interestingly though, I once saw FanTaSy play this wierd style where he was just scanning like fucking nuts and the one commentator pointed out that this actually kinda served his terrorizing/weak macro style. Eventually I'll get better at it, but in the meantime I don't see the use of floating like 2000 minerals when the gg is called if I could have translated that into crisper play (and, if you think about it, scanning will probably help develop your game sense in several ways). Not that I care all that much, I just wanna have as much fun as possible. | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
Personally I'm just not afraid of the player that neglects the back bone of an rts game which begins with TADA a strong economy. That leaves you with a weaker army, less tech, less bases. If you really want to win short games with low unit counts and low economy that revolve around split second decisions I would switch to Protoss. In general Terran is quite macro oriented (like Zerg). We try to swarm and overpower with numbers when applicable. Also micro with small unit counts is actually really easy. Micro gets way more advanced at maxed supplies. | ||
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KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
but got to add my macro isn't top notch so that might be the reason I odn't see the need of muling. I'm still really low. | ||
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SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
Also, it's not that I only want to play short games with low unit counts. I love playing supreme late with maxed out armies too. But I also really like getting in my opponent's face as much as possible, and I was simply curious about what better Terrans than I thought about going scan-crazy in the name of aggression. | ||
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JanLui
France50 Posts
On October 17 2014 09:10 NexT_SC2 wrote: Could someone tell me a macro tvz build order in the current meta? Preferably one of Innovation's builds. Btw I'm a gold player aiming for plat. Thanks definitively maraudeur hellbat push : CC 1st with 2 rax for early marauder production !!! (but no medivac for the initial push) MarineKing(PRIME) vs hyvaa(MVP) Set2 on Frost [SPL2014] 10 depot 14 CC 15 rax 17 rax 18 gas 19 gas 2xOC & 2xmarines factory + reactor/rax(1) techlab/rax(2) depot(2) (@24/30 or 5'04) @100 gas STIM + marauder (5:20) 2x hellions + reactor/rax(1) (or techlab depends on your choice) + depot(3) (@5'43 or 30/38) continuous 2x marines 1x maraudeur cycle (or 2x marauder cycle is also ok) armory @6'45 PUSH out 7'20 (+4scv) | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On October 18 2014 18:56 SeinGalton wrote: What, pray, is this cheese you speak of? You can find my post on it in this very thread!  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/402751-the-hots-terran-help-me-thread?page=289#5766 | ||
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Grizvok
United States711 Posts
On October 19 2014 19:00 JanLui wrote: definitively maraudeur hellbat push : CC 1st with 2 rax for early marauder production !!! (but no medivac for the initial push) MarineKing(PRIME) vs hyvaa(MVP) Set2 on Frost [SPL2014] http://youtu.be/XELLeSKNCjs 10 depot 14 CC 15 rax 17 rax 18 gas 19 gas 2xOC & 2xmarines factory + reactor/rax(1) techlab/rax(2) depot(2) (@24/30 or 5'04) @100 gas STIM + marauder (5:20) 2x hellions + reactor/rax(1) (or techlab depends on your choice) + depot(3) (@5'43 or 30/38) continuous 2x marines 1x maraudeur cycle (or 2x marauder cycle is also ok) armory @6'45 PUSH out 7'20 (+4scv) I don't think I'd necessarily call this a "macro build." Actually very not macro oriented to be honest. | ||
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