EPTPut a tech lab on my factory and a Rax build a tank and marauders?
Especially if I notice that his second base is droning.
Thanks
The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 310
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HFABamaFan
United States9 Posts
Put a tech lab on my factory and a Rax build a tank and marauders? Especially if I notice that his second base is droning. Thanks | ||
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Marksman
Malaysia523 Posts
On September 03 2014 02:39 Incognoto wrote: OK, real question here. How on earth do you close out a game in TvT and how on earth do you attack into marine/tank. it doesn't matter if you have a maxed terran army supply, if you throw that into a tank line you're just going to lose. I have no idea how to work around tanks generally speaking. marauders? unsieged tanks? do i need lots of vikings? :i Grizvok and Pursuit have some very good answers. Let me try to have a go as well. To break a marine tank line, there are several ways 1. Brute force 2. Make tools more specialized in breaking lines Sun Tzu's art of war should prove quite helpful. Let's go through these options for a bit. “If you know the enemy and know yourself, your victory will not stand in doubt; if you know Heaven and know Earth, you may make your victory complete.” 1. Brute Force There are several ways to brute force through the enemy. There is the dangerous way of just breaking your way through with quantity and efficient splitting but this method is subject to your skill and the situation in the game. There is a slower but more precise method of using vikings to remove the enemy vision and advance slowly but this is dependent on the sky battle. On the ground, Tanks need marines and marines need tanks to win the big critical engagements. Without sufficient of either, you are almost doomed to lose the battle in an equally sized battle. For conducting / defending drops, this symbiosis is a situational case (Depending on location of battle). To win a straight up fight, you need to separate both elements from each other. “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.” “If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected .” The way that can be done is to use mobility to force your opponent out of position. Stimmed marines definitely outspeed tanks by a considerable margin. Drops or ground based attacks from multiple fronts should be used to force this entanglement. Marine & Medivacs are your core raiding units for this intended goal. Tanks should be used as a support defensive holdout in order to either A) Create an opening for the drops B) Zone the enemy from attacking / defending Playing marine tank vs marine tank is learning the playstyle of both mech and bio simultaneously (Well kinda obvious since it is biomech). Your army must be solid but must also be fluid. To switch rapidly in between, you must scout constantly to see his movements to create A & B. Scans and single marines are the god of your eyes. Otherwise, you risk entering a base trade which you may not be in favourable position. Knowledge is power, hide it well. 2. Make tools more specialized in breaking lines There are cases where both sides are strongly entrenched with relatively even ground (Upgrades, army, map positioning, base count etc). In these cases where even drops or diversions cannot work, you need to get the tools that can break the marine tank line. There are two ways to doing this. A) Nukes B) Air units Nukes as you know will force the enemy back provided your ghost doesn't get sniped (And it shouldn't be if positioned right). Use this to gain key locations or create openings which will be worth the money as terrain & positioning is superior to the cost of a single nuke in this stage. However, when using nukes, you must be fast to follow up or the enemy will simply retake the locations. Air Tech units such as battlecruisers, Ravens & Banshee do well to slowly chip away at enemy lines with the HSM or Yamato or just being psychologically annoying to force a mistake. Viking support will definitely be needed but these units should not be overcommitted for it would reduce your ground army size. They are support tools and not to be considered as a core transition. During this time, it is important that you are the following. “Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” After all, you are transitioning and if he is also transitioning, be faster by creating any distractions if possible. This is my 2 cents on the topic. Feel free to comment if anything stands out. | ||
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rolando
United States82 Posts
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Tzela
Canada48 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/466224-tvz-flash-bbyongs-hellions-runbymarine-drops | ||
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KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/461729-the-return-of-the-hellbats | ||
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Enigmasc
United Kingdom147 Posts
but basically im toying with the idea of switching from zerg to terran mainly because im prettymuch not enjoying playing zerg anymore ( at this stage i only enjoy playing zvt vs bio) could anybody point me in the right direction for a couple of macro builds for TvP and TvZ and a 1 base build for TvT, or maybe give me some tips on how to play bio effectiveley, and geral tips to make the switch a little smoother? and maybe get some motivation back? | ||
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KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
as far as it's concerned BOs just look at the OP and pick one out. | ||
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Gaskal
Canada241 Posts
On September 08 2014 03:43 Enigmasc wrote: hey guys im not sure if this is the right place to ask but basically im toying with the idea of switching from zerg to terran mainly because im prettymuch not enjoying playing zerg anymore ( at this stage i only enjoy playing zvt vs bio) could anybody point me in the right direction for a couple of macro builds for TvP and TvZ and a 1 base build for TvT, or maybe give me some tips on how to play bio effectiveley, and geral tips to make the switch a little smoother? and maybe get some motivation back? TvP: Fast +1 Weapons FE (into 2 base SCV pull) TvZ: Reaper-Hellion 3CC 1 base TvT the current meta seems to be gas-first aggression. I'll list my BO below; I've been favoring it a lot because it's usually safe vs any sort of 1 base play. Saved me quite a lot vs 1 base terrans. Gas first Marine-Hellion Elevator: 10 - Supply depot 12 - Gas 13 - Barracks 17 - 1 marine 17 - Factory 18 - Orbital Command 18 - Reactor on Barracks (continuous marines) 18 - Supply depot 20 - Starport Start 2nd gas as medevac starts building, continuously build depots at 24 supply, if you scout banshee opener cut marines to build e-bay + turret. (your attack should hit his base as the banshee pops anyway) @100% factory: 3 hellions and then a techlab, 1 tank @100% starport: 1 medevac, 1 viking, then switch onto techlabbed factory and 1 raven By the time any sort of barracks-first 1 base push hits your base, you should have a viking, a tank, and a few marines to push it away. Marine-tank-viking all ins may scare you a little and take out a bit of infrastructure, but if you just take potshots at his viking with your own and send yours back to get repaired, he'll quickly realize he has to evacuate or start losing troops. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
10 depot 12 rax 12 gas 15 cc 15 reaper 18 cc reactor / factory / depot | ||
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Bulugulu
Israel250 Posts
On September 08 2014 15:53 Incognoto wrote: Is the Reaper expand unsafe in TvT? 10 depot 12 rax 12 gas 15 cc 15 reaper 18 cc reactor / factory / depot CC before 2nd depot? Probably only safe on nimbus. CC after 2nd depot? Safe on all maps. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On September 08 2014 18:42 Bulugulu wrote: CC before 2nd depot? Probably only safe on nimbus. CC after 2nd depot? Safe on all maps. Nice, nice thanks for answering this | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
Poll: TvZ style preference 4M (9) Bio/Hellbat/Thor (6) 15 total votes Your vote: TvZ style preference | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
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Razac
Netherlands101 Posts
Since I really Flash and Maru it would be a big plus if there would be a game of them playing it. PS. I like having different opening for 2/3/4 player maps respectively. | ||
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KonanTenshi
Sweden210 Posts
Flash mechs in TvT as far as I know and maru plays marine tank I think. | ||
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Gaskal
Canada241 Posts
On September 09 2014 03:04 Razac wrote: Could anyone help me with finding a good opening build for TvT? One that sets me for strength in the mid-game preferably. Since I really Flash and Maru it would be a big plus if there would be a game of them playing it. PS. I like having different opening for 2/3/4 player maps respectively. Flash goes for the greediest possible safe expansion (Merry Go Round vs Taeja, IEM) which is a reaper FE. He uses the reaper purely to scout the build Taeja is going for and modifies his build as needed; he immediately goes into reactored hellion and viking production to counteract any sort of elevatored marine-hellion play, and if he detects any sort of tank pressure he simply cranks out more hellions and drops the earlier armory to turn them into hellbats (King Sejong, Taeja, IEM semis) Even if he loses the reaper he's not opposed to making another one just to get that important scout in. Flash seems to like mech vT. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
Replay relevant http://drop.sc/385910 | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On September 09 2014 02:26 GumBa wrote: So guys I wanted to hear your thoughts on 4M vs Bio/Hellbat/Thor in TvZ and which is better and you prefer to watch/play? Poll: TvZ style preference 4M (9) Bio/Hellbat/Thor (6) 15 total votes Your vote: TvZ style preference eh, I prefer 3M, either mineless, or marauderless with extra mines. | ||
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Mojito99
Germany154 Posts
On September 10 2014 22:08 Meavis wrote: eh, I prefer 3M, either mineless, or marauderless with extra mines. I feel like mines are superior to hellbats, but they also require more micro - maybe not the best thing as playing bio vs ling muta bane is already very micro intensive. Furthermore, i feel like mines allow for a more potent "rally" simply because hellbats styles relies on getting marauder thor as well otherwise your gas to mineral ratio is massively imbalanced. Maurauder/Thor however takes longer to produce and hence the rally becomes weaker. The major issue is getting across the map. Mines work because you essetially "siege" the zerg bases. A minefield creates a defensive outpost from which you can attack the zerg. On the other hand, a heavy marauder thor composition becomes harder to engage with muta ling but it also allows more time for lets say swarmhost to enter the field. to add to that: I know of 1 pro Terran who consistently plays hellbat thor and i know 35 others who play mines... | ||
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
On September 08 2014 15:53 Incognoto wrote: Is the Reaper expand unsafe in TvT? 10 depot 12 rax 12 gas 15 oc 15 reaper 18 cc reactor / factory / depot Reaper expand -> Reaper scouts -> counter. I'd say it was unsafe to do any fast expand BUT a reaper expand. As far as I know the only way a reaper expand just outright loses is against blind proxy marauder. | ||
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