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The HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 310

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions.
HFABamaFan
Profile Joined July 2014
United States9 Posts
September 06 2014 02:17 GMT
#6181
If I am thinking about going mech against Zerg, and I notice a 2 base roach timing/all in, what is the best way to hold assuming that i open reaper FE into double banshee.

Put a tech lab on my factory and a Rax build a tank and marauders?

Especially if I notice that his second base is droning.

Thanks
Marksman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Malaysia523 Posts
September 06 2014 05:53 GMT
#6182
On September 03 2014 02:39 Incognoto wrote:
OK, real question here. How on earth do you close out a game in TvT and how on earth do you attack into marine/tank. it doesn't matter if you have a maxed terran army supply, if you throw that into a tank line you're just going to lose. I have no idea how to work around tanks generally speaking. marauders? unsieged tanks?

do i need lots of vikings? :i


Grizvok and Pursuit have some very good answers. Let me try to have a go as well.

To break a marine tank line, there are several ways

1. Brute force
2. Make tools more specialized in breaking lines

Sun Tzu's art of war should prove quite helpful. Let's go through these options for a bit.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, your victory will not stand in doubt; if you know Heaven and know Earth, you may make your victory complete.”


1. Brute Force

There are several ways to brute force through the enemy.

There is the dangerous way of just breaking your way through with quantity and efficient splitting but this method is subject to your skill and the situation in the game. There is a slower but more precise method of using vikings to remove the enemy vision and advance slowly but this is dependent on the sky battle.

On the ground, Tanks need marines and marines need tanks to win the big critical engagements. Without sufficient of either, you are almost doomed to lose the battle in an equally sized battle. For conducting / defending drops, this symbiosis is a situational case (Depending on location of battle). To win a straight up fight, you need to separate both elements from each other.

“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”


“If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected .”


The way that can be done is to use mobility to force your opponent out of position. Stimmed marines definitely outspeed tanks by a considerable margin. Drops or ground based attacks from multiple fronts should be used to force this entanglement. Marine & Medivacs are your core raiding units for this intended goal. Tanks should be used as a support defensive holdout in order to either

A) Create an opening for the drops
B) Zone the enemy from attacking / defending

Playing marine tank vs marine tank is learning the playstyle of both mech and bio simultaneously (Well kinda obvious since it is biomech). Your army must be solid but must also be fluid. To switch rapidly in between, you must scout constantly to see his movements to create A & B. Scans and single marines are the god of your eyes. Otherwise, you risk entering a base trade which you may not be in favourable position.

Knowledge is power, hide it well.


2. Make tools more specialized in breaking lines

There are cases where both sides are strongly entrenched with relatively even ground (Upgrades, army, map positioning, base count etc). In these cases where even drops or diversions cannot work, you need to get the tools that can break the marine tank line.

There are two ways to doing this.

A) Nukes
B) Air units

Nukes as you know will force the enemy back provided your ghost doesn't get sniped (And it shouldn't be if positioned right). Use this to gain key locations or create openings which will be worth the money as terrain & positioning is superior to the cost of a single nuke in this stage. However, when using nukes, you must be fast to follow up or the enemy will simply retake the locations.

Air Tech units such as battlecruisers, Ravens & Banshee do well to slowly chip away at enemy lines with the HSM or Yamato or just being psychologically annoying to force a mistake. Viking support will definitely be needed but these units should not be overcommitted for it would reduce your ground army size. They are support tools and not to be considered as a core transition. During this time, it is important that you are the following.

“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”


After all, you are transitioning and if he is also transitioning, be faster by creating any distractions if possible.

This is my 2 cents on the topic. Feel free to comment if anything stands out.
I live by the LoL
rolando
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States82 Posts
September 07 2014 17:30 GMT
#6183
does anyone have the build order for the hellbat/marin/medivac push that flash used in code s? it hit at about 8 minutes
Tzela
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada48 Posts
September 07 2014 17:44 GMT
#6184
is it in here?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/466224-tvz-flash-bbyongs-hellions-runbymarine-drops
KonanTenshi
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden210 Posts
September 07 2014 17:52 GMT
#6185
try looking for it here.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/461729-the-return-of-the-hellbats
Curious
Enigmasc
Profile Joined February 2014
United Kingdom147 Posts
September 07 2014 18:43 GMT
#6186
hey guys im not sure if this is the right place to ask
but basically im toying with the idea of switching from zerg to terran mainly because im prettymuch not enjoying playing zerg anymore ( at this stage i only enjoy playing zvt vs bio)

could anybody point me in the right direction for a couple of macro builds for TvP and TvZ and a 1 base build for TvT, or maybe give me some tips on how to play bio effectiveley, and geral tips to make the switch a little smoother? and maybe get some motivation back?
KonanTenshi
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden210 Posts
September 07 2014 20:05 GMT
#6187
The best way to get motivation back is either off racing or take a break from the game all together.

as far as it's concerned BOs just look at the OP and pick one out.
Curious
Gaskal
Profile Joined May 2013
Canada241 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-07 21:03:49
September 07 2014 21:02 GMT
#6188
On September 08 2014 03:43 Enigmasc wrote:
hey guys im not sure if this is the right place to ask
but basically im toying with the idea of switching from zerg to terran mainly because im prettymuch not enjoying playing zerg anymore ( at this stage i only enjoy playing zvt vs bio)

could anybody point me in the right direction for a couple of macro builds for TvP and TvZ and a 1 base build for TvT, or maybe give me some tips on how to play bio effectiveley, and geral tips to make the switch a little smoother? and maybe get some motivation back?

TvP: Fast +1 Weapons FE (into 2 base SCV pull)
TvZ: Reaper-Hellion 3CC

1 base TvT the current meta seems to be gas-first aggression. I'll list my BO below; I've been favoring it a lot because it's usually safe vs any sort of 1 base play. Saved me quite a lot vs 1 base terrans.

Gas first Marine-Hellion Elevator:

10 - Supply depot
12 - Gas
13 - Barracks
17 - 1 marine
17 - Factory
18 - Orbital Command
18 - Reactor on Barracks (continuous marines)
18 - Supply depot
20 - Starport
Start 2nd gas as medevac starts building, continuously build depots at 24 supply, if you scout banshee opener cut marines to build e-bay + turret.

(your attack should hit his base as the banshee pops anyway)

@100% factory: 3 hellions and then a techlab, 1 tank
@100% starport: 1 medevac, 1 viking, then switch onto techlabbed factory and 1 raven


By the time any sort of barracks-first 1 base push hits your base, you should have a viking, a tank, and a few marines to push it away. Marine-tank-viking all ins may scare you a little and take out a bit of infrastructure, but if you just take potshots at his viking with your own and send yours back to get repaired, he'll quickly realize he has to evacuate or start losing troops.


"Get all the money, build all the units...kill the other guy"
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
September 08 2014 06:53 GMT
#6189
Is the Reaper expand unsafe in TvT?

10 depot
12 rax
12 gas
15 cc
15 reaper
18 cc
reactor / factory / depot
maru lover forever
Bulugulu
Profile Joined March 2011
Israel250 Posts
September 08 2014 09:42 GMT
#6190
On September 08 2014 15:53 Incognoto wrote:
Is the Reaper expand unsafe in TvT?

10 depot
12 rax
12 gas
15 cc
15 reaper
18 cc
reactor / factory / depot


CC before 2nd depot? Probably only safe on nimbus.
CC after 2nd depot? Safe on all maps.
“Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.”
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
September 08 2014 11:02 GMT
#6191
On September 08 2014 18:42 Bulugulu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2014 15:53 Incognoto wrote:
Is the Reaper expand unsafe in TvT?

10 depot
12 rax
12 gas
15 cc
15 reaper
18 cc
reactor / factory / depot


CC before 2nd depot? Probably only safe on nimbus.
CC after 2nd depot? Safe on all maps.


Nice, nice thanks for answering this
maru lover forever
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
September 08 2014 17:26 GMT
#6192
So guys I wanted to hear your thoughts on 4M vs Bio/Hellbat/Thor in TvZ and which is better and you prefer to watch/play?

Poll: TvZ style preference

4M (9)
 
60%

Bio/Hellbat/Thor (6)
 
40%

15 total votes

Your vote: TvZ style preference

(Vote): 4M
(Vote): Bio/Hellbat/Thor



To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
September 08 2014 17:30 GMT
#6193
Watch? Bio/Hellbat/Thor, because it's a more solid and reliable composition so long as you're not too far behind. Play? 4M, because it's easier to manage Zerg a-move (i.e. they can't do it unless they want to lose).
Twitter: @iamcaustic
Razac
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands101 Posts
September 08 2014 18:04 GMT
#6194
Could anyone help me with finding a good opening build for TvT? One that sets me for strength in the mid-game preferably.
Since I really Flash and Maru it would be a big plus if there would be a game of them playing it.

PS.
I like having different opening for 2/3/4 player maps respectively.
www.twitch.tv/razac_
KonanTenshi
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden210 Posts
September 08 2014 20:46 GMT
#6195
The thing right now is going gas first into marine tank drop

Flash mechs in TvT as far as I know and maru plays marine tank I think.
Curious
Gaskal
Profile Joined May 2013
Canada241 Posts
September 09 2014 14:50 GMT
#6196
On September 09 2014 03:04 Razac wrote:
Could anyone help me with finding a good opening build for TvT? One that sets me for strength in the mid-game preferably.
Since I really Flash and Maru it would be a big plus if there would be a game of them playing it.

PS.
I like having different opening for 2/3/4 player maps respectively.

Flash goes for the greediest possible safe expansion (Merry Go Round vs Taeja, IEM) which is a reaper FE. He uses the reaper purely to scout the build Taeja is going for and modifies his build as needed; he immediately goes into reactored hellion and viking production to counteract any sort of elevatored marine-hellion play, and if he detects any sort of tank pressure he simply cranks out more hellions and drops the earlier armory to turn them into hellbats (King Sejong, Taeja, IEM semis)

Even if he loses the reaper he's not opposed to making another one just to get that important scout in. Flash seems to like mech vT.


"Get all the money, build all the units...kill the other guy"
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 12:49:31
September 10 2014 12:49 GMT
#6197
I have a question about reaper expand in TvP. Should I aim for bunker before CC? Or should I rely on micro to hold off zealot / stalker / msc poke?

Replay relevant http://drop.sc/385910
maru lover forever
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
September 10 2014 13:08 GMT
#6198
On September 09 2014 02:26 GumBa wrote:
So guys I wanted to hear your thoughts on 4M vs Bio/Hellbat/Thor in TvZ and which is better and you prefer to watch/play?

Poll: TvZ style preference

4M (9)
 
60%

Bio/Hellbat/Thor (6)
 
40%

15 total votes

Your vote: TvZ style preference

(Vote): 4M
(Vote): Bio/Hellbat/Thor





eh, I prefer 3M, either mineless, or marauderless with extra mines.
"Not you."
Mojito99
Profile Joined October 2013
Germany154 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 19:41:01
September 10 2014 15:01 GMT
#6199
On September 10 2014 22:08 Meavis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2014 02:26 GumBa wrote:
So guys I wanted to hear your thoughts on 4M vs Bio/Hellbat/Thor in TvZ and which is better and you prefer to watch/play?

Poll: TvZ style preference

4M (9)
 
60%

Bio/Hellbat/Thor (6)
 
40%

15 total votes

Your vote: TvZ style preference

(Vote): 4M
(Vote): Bio/Hellbat/Thor





eh, I prefer 3M, either mineless, or marauderless with extra mines.



I feel like mines are superior to hellbats, but they also require more micro - maybe not the best thing as playing bio vs ling muta bane is already very micro intensive.

Furthermore, i feel like mines allow for a more potent "rally" simply because hellbats styles relies on getting marauder thor as well otherwise your gas to mineral ratio is massively imbalanced. Maurauder/Thor however takes longer to produce and hence the rally becomes weaker.

The major issue is getting across the map. Mines work because you essetially "siege" the zerg bases. A minefield creates a defensive outpost from which you can attack the zerg.

On the other hand, a heavy marauder thor composition becomes harder to engage with muta ling but it also allows more time for lets say swarmhost to enter the field.

to add to that:
I know of 1 pro Terran who consistently plays hellbat thor and i know 35 others who play mines...
Mnijykmirl
Profile Joined February 2010
United States299 Posts
September 10 2014 16:09 GMT
#6200
On September 08 2014 15:53 Incognoto wrote:
Is the Reaper expand unsafe in TvT?

10 depot
12 rax
12 gas
15 oc
15 reaper
18 cc
reactor / factory / depot


Reaper expand -> Reaper scouts -> counter. I'd say it was unsafe to do any fast expand BUT a reaper expand. As far as I know the only way a reaper expand just outright loses is against blind proxy marauder.
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