EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 255
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
On February 25 2014 02:02 mau5mat wrote: Would be very curious to hear Iaguz' and/or TheDwf's thoughts on FanTaSy's build today in Proleague vs Life, what did you think of it? I think you're looking for this post?  | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
Thank you, can't believe I missed this | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
Mine targetting is somewhat random (trying to target individual mines onto targets in the midst of micro is well beyond most players I think) and they are all garantueed to die if you get pushed back. Hellbats can soak Baneling hits (not incredibly well but not horribly either) and absolutely decimate Zerglings. Against Muta/Ling/Bling they can provide a different means of dealing with the Banelings and having better Zergling damage to boot. The downside is that a big flood of Banelings will burn through them rather easily and Hellbats are crap against Roaches/Hydras because of their slow mobility and range. And ofcourse, Hellbats do not shoot up. I think it requires a lot more micro as well because you need to split up all your Hellbats when the Banelings roll in, whereas you'd only have to burrow all your mines (if they aren't burrowed already). Hellbats also don't have any way to boost their speed like Bio can with Stim so they tend to lag behind whereas Mines are already fast. Personally I'm not a huge fan of either, I really miss Siege Tanks in TvZ. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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iRope
United States24 Posts
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necaremus
45 Posts
build order is as follow -> supply depot -> refinery -> barracks -> orbital+factory this far pretty normal build... i guess - but at this point i do as following: build 2 marines and be 19/19 supply when orbital finishes with no supply in production, instantly use your energy on the supply depot and rally the next scv to build your 2nd cc when the scv pops out u have enough minerals to build the 2nd CC without delaying anthing. the thoughtprocess behind this is: a mule gives you more minerals, no doubt. but the mule takes time to get these. with the use of nrg on your supply u save instantly 100minerals on the supply + the time it takes a worker to build the supply depot. is this opening worth using? or do u think u should never waste your nrg on supply ;D | ||
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Dunmer
United Kingdom568 Posts
If you want gas and to expand go 10 depot 12 rax 15 gas orbital marine and after 2 marines go factory and reactor and then expand. This can be used in TvP and TvT but not so much TvZ. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On February 27 2014 03:44 necaremus wrote: ok, i have a little question about an opening i've been testing lately build order is as follow -> supply depot -> refinery -> barracks -> orbital+factory this far pretty normal build... i guess - but at this point i do as following: build 2 marines and be 19/19 supply when orbital finishes with no supply in production, instantly use your energy on the supply depot and rally the next scv to build your 2nd cc when the scv pops out u have enough minerals to build the 2nd CC without delaying anthing. the thoughtprocess behind this is: a mule gives you more minerals, no doubt. but the mule takes time to get these. with the use of nrg on your supply u save instantly 100minerals on the supply + the time it takes a worker to build the supply depot. is this opening worth using? or do u think u should never waste your nrg on supply ;D I'd say, test it out! I do however think a gas first, which is already low on minerals, doesn't like losing the mule. Check how much economy you have with the marginally faster 2nd cc! I think it is less good, also makes your depot more vulnerable. | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
On February 27 2014 03:44 necaremus wrote: ok, i have a little question about an opening i've been testing lately build order is as follow -> supply depot -> refinery -> barracks -> orbital+factory this far pretty normal build... i guess - but at this point i do as following: build 2 marines and be 19/19 supply when orbital finishes with no supply in production, instantly use your energy on the supply depot and rally the next scv to build your 2nd cc when the scv pops out u have enough minerals to build the 2nd CC without delaying anthing. the thoughtprocess behind this is: a mule gives you more minerals, no doubt. but the mule takes time to get these. with the use of nrg on your supply u save instantly 100minerals on the supply + the time it takes a worker to build the supply depot. is this opening worth using? or do u think u should never waste your nrg on supply ;D Two issues I could see: You still lose about 100-150 minerals in the next minute or so. A MULE mines 270 minerals, compared to 100 minerals for the depot and the SCV building it not mining. This means that while you might be able to start your CC slightly earlier, you essentially pay for it with 100-150 minerals that could've gone into another Barracks or something similar. I'd rather have two Barracks and an expansion done at 5:00 than one Barracks and expansion done at 4:45. The other downside is that you're putting 16 supply into a 400 health building in the period where it is most crucial not to lose it. If any significant early aggression happens and that depot goes down you'll be heavily supply blocked. This on top of the 100-150 minerals you won't have had to help ward off the aggression could just straight up lose you the game. The only long term advantage you get in a way from not using MULEs is that your main does not mine out as quickly, but I highly doubt that is worth the reduction in income that would come from it. Supply drop is best used when you simply forgot that damn depot or if a depot/CC got destroyed and you got supply blocked because of it. | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On February 27 2014 03:44 necaremus wrote: ok, i have a little question about an opening i've been testing lately build order is as follow -> supply depot -> refinery -> barracks -> orbital+factory this far pretty normal build... i guess - but at this point i do as following: build 2 marines and be 19/19 supply when orbital finishes with no supply in production, instantly use your energy on the supply depot and rally the next scv to build your 2nd cc when the scv pops out u have enough minerals to build the 2nd CC without delaying anthing. the thoughtprocess behind this is: a mule gives you more minerals, no doubt. but the mule takes time to get these. with the use of nrg on your supply u save instantly 100minerals on the supply + the time it takes a worker to build the supply depot. is this opening worth using? or do u think u should never waste your nrg on supply ;D I think the first question that needs to be asked is what exactly you're trying to accomplish with this. Gas first is pretty much exclusively done to put aggression onto your opponent in the form of faster tech/higher-tier units. Examples include banshee harassment, fast tank pushes, etc. If you're wanting to open economic (as implied by your fast CC), you'd be better off optimizing in a way that gets you more minerals earlier, then adding on the gas. This can be done with a few popular openings: CC first, 1 rax gasless CC, 15 gas, etc. Your build feels like one that lacks a clear goal and ends up hurting you more than anything, unless there's some sort of special reason for getting the factory so quickly in a fast expand build that the rest of us are not aware of. | ||
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Stazzle
Netherlands7 Posts
1. fast robo - no clue what this does really, usually it seems to mean fast robobay + colossus, why would they go for this? 2. fast twilight - this is tricky, it can either be blink, charge or dts or even storm. should i just get a turret at front regardless? Is there something i can see from #gas taken? (most toss take a lot of gas regardless of tech) 3. fast nexus - just tech'ing up i guess? Why dont all toss do this since i dont see how you can punish it. Also when i scout just a gateway + cybercore at what point (perhaps a time?) should i start getting worried about a proxy? anything i'm missing? | ||
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B-rye88
Canada168 Posts
On February 27 2014 05:50 Stazzle wrote: I have a question on scouting, mainly vs toss (as a high goldleaguer, so builds arent always clean). I open reaper in both TvP and TvZ and i try to scout with it. Against protoss i have a hard time knowing what he's committing too, here's some thought process examples and perhaps you can tell me if im correct. 1. fast robo - no clue what this does really, usually it seems to mean fast robobay + colossus, why would they go for this? 2. fast twilight - this is tricky, it can either be blink, charge or dts or even storm. should i just get a turret at front regardless? Is there something i can see from #gas taken? (most toss take a lot of gas regardless of tech) 3. fast nexus - just tech'ing up i guess? Why dont all toss do this since i dont see how you can punish it. Also when i scout just a gateway + cybercore at what point (perhaps a time?) should i start getting worried about a proxy? anything i'm missing? What is your follow-up to reaper expand? If you're delaying your factory, consider getting a second reaper with your first marine so long as you don't scout a 10-gate; this will allow a secondary scout. If you're going for 1-1-1 openings, your medivac drop will have to double as a scout. 1) Fast colossus play to enable a fast third, prism drop (dt prism), immortal all-in. Second scout should look for robo-bays, dark shrines, army size. 2) Blink all-in, blink into fast third, fast storm/charge into third, dt's. Secondary scout should look for dark shrines, army compositions / size (more stalkers = blink, more zealots = charge/storm. 3) Fast nexus just means whatever tech they were looking for is now more delayed. Protoss won't do this all the time as delayed tech opens up vulnerabilities to stim timings, requires cannons for WM drop detection, and allows Terran to equalise through their own greed. | ||
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Stazzle
Netherlands7 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On February 27 2014 08:02 Stazzle wrote: Also is it standard to go 3 barracks before CC or do you get a CC after 1 in tvp, i always go 4 barracks before cc but i dont know if its necessary even if you're scouting an all-in, getting an in-base cc will help when you have to pull scvs. the most rax you want to get before cc is 2, other wise just 1 and then cc then 2-3 additional rax. usually 2 additional otherwise you're not going to have the economy to support all those rax and get upgrades | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37123 Posts
http://drop.sc/375223?pass=2e9035c2-e3c5-4ecd-9eea-c0f3f985d54b Could you dissect this replay for me? I need to know what I did wrong so that I can work on it. Here is my take on what I believe I did wrong: -Stayed on 1 base too long -Lost my army in the middle of the map because of misclick caused a huge gap in supply difference to occur -Lost scvs to DTs and then forgot to replenish them -Messed up my battles | ||
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Names
Canada328 Posts
On February 27 2014 12:18 Seeker wrote: Can you guys do me a favor? http://drop.sc/375223?pass=2e9035c2-e3c5-4ecd-9eea-c0f3f985d54b Could you dissect this replay for me? I need to know what I did wrong so that I can work on it. Here is my take on what I believe I did wrong: -Stayed on 1 base too long -Lost my army in the middle of the map because of misclick caused a huge gap in supply difference to occur -Lost scvs to DTs and then forgot to replenish them -Messed up my battles Hello, Fellow diamond level terran here. I'll just point out a few things im noting while im going through the replay. -Considering that you built your 2nd CC in-base, you could of built it before 2nd supply depot. hold the scv near the ramp to prevent scouting (if you want to prevent it so bad) and dont build anything except if you see probe going up. If you see one block with supply, if you dont, proceed into CC before 2nd supply. -As you said you stayed on 1 base for too long. Good reaper scouting, but dont stop it. It should of went straight for the natural after scouting DT shrine. You want to know how his economy is doing to take the best decisions you can. -Good drop play. Though you are having a hard time defending those DTs. Let's be honest, that wall at the natural was poor. Improve that, have units in that bunker and you'll be in better shape there. In case of robo play with DTs -> Assume he will drop. Its safe to have a bunker behind main mineral line along with that turret. That or a small portion of army just sitting idle in mineral line. -Because of all this action, your upgrades feel neglected. You also have a late 3rd CC. Very late. Always come back to the game plan. Do you have a game plan? - Also you scouted Colossus and you are getting dropped but you are still not producing Vikings. Those are your best buddies in this game. Get some! -I'm at 15:00 and I can say you're quite a bit behind. If i look at the spent tab he's already spent 1k in each category more than you have, meaning he mined a lot more than you did at this point. Though you traded good and have less ressource lost than him, a 3K deficit is quite big. Don't get behind in economy. You don't want that to happen. This correlates with the DT defense and the late 3rd expansion. -You built your 4th and 5th rax at the 19th minute mark in the game. Try having them finish as your 3rd finishes. A 3rd landing will provide a sudden boost in economy thus you will have the ressources to produce out of those two as soon as it's there. -Good nexus sniping lol. Is this Polt vs Hero im watching? =p Jokes aside, watch out for DTs as his defense. You just lost quite a few units because they were slowly getting killed by a single DT -Bummer! as our friend Demuslim would say. You need to take them alerts on your minimap quite seriously. Send a marine in front (as zergs do with zerglings) to know where his army is positioned. Grab the watchtower. At 20 minutes in the game, you need to know where his army is at. Lategame TvP is a lot about positioning. Yes macroing is important, but if you're not feeling safe in the middle of the map, macro after ordering your army to come back to safety. -Nexus sniping can be a bitch because you feel like you've done a lot of damage but it doesn't show for quite some time. Even after those two snipes his army was intact so you had to take it very seriously. I think a good step was to come back between natural and 3rd, build bunkers and turrets, and drop one more time in the main while he's trying to bust you there. - Also don't forget your lategame transition: You need ghosts!! +3+3 and I really feel like no vikings hurt you a lot in this game. Good luck fighting Protoss! Names | ||
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On February 27 2014 05:50 Stazzle wrote: I have a question on scouting, mainly vs toss (as a high goldleaguer, so builds arent always clean). I open reaper in both TvP and TvZ and i try to scout with it. Against protoss i have a hard time knowing what he's committing too, here's some thought process examples and perhaps you can tell me if im correct. 1. fast robo - no clue what this does really, usually it seems to mean fast robobay + colossus, why would they go for this? 2. fast twilight - this is tricky, it can either be blink, charge or dts or even storm. should i just get a turret at front regardless? Is there something i can see from #gas taken? (most toss take a lot of gas regardless of tech) 3. fast nexus - just tech'ing up i guess? Why dont all toss do this since i dont see how you can punish it. Also when i scout just a gateway + cybercore at what point (perhaps a time?) should i start getting worried about a proxy? anything i'm missing? Here is a really good guide for TvP scouting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=411085 1. I assume you mean fast robo without an expansion? Just keep the reaper alive and if there is no expansion being built at 5:00 you know a serious attack is coming. Robo in this case will most likely be some kind of immortal bust or a warp prism drop in your main. 2. Again I assume this is a 1 base play. If so and you have scouted twilight, scan it at 6:00 and see if it's researching. If it's researching it's 100% blink. If not it's 100% DTs. If there is an expansion and then twilight the only thing you need to immediatly worry about are DTs which arrvies to your base around 7:30. Blink stalkers should arrive at 8:30 if it's a 2 base blink (I think, correct me if I'm wrong). Charge and storm doesn't appear from 1 base and from 2 base it can't kill you until 11:00 or so. 3. This doesn't necessary mean that there isn't aggression coming, the only thing you know for sure is that probable aggression will arive 30-60 seconds later than if it's from 1 base. About the proxy thing, check the guide I linked, you will learn a lot from it! GL in the future! | ||
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