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Is it normal in TvT if you see 12rax 12gas and no reaper to assume your opponent is going cloak banshee?
I just lost this guy who made the ideal composition to deal with cloak banshee (lots of marines, early ebay, raven) despite him only seeing 12rax 12gas and he didn't scout later in the game to see if I had expanded. Personally I could've expected maybe a turret and some marines to deal with banshee without cloak (viable off 1gas iirc) but the fact he build a Raven concerns me.
I asked him if he just got lucky but he said because he saw no reaper he assumed banshee. Considering there is a few things you could go for off 1gas (tank expand, marine hellion drop, mine drop, etc) I think it's a bit strange how he very efficiently dealt with a cloakshee.
This guys record wasn't great so he didn't stand out as a cheater or anything but I keep watching the replay back thinking how the hell he knew what he seemed to...
I open raven / Marine / widow mine just about every game in TvT I am able to defend any early aggression including 8-8-8 and be counter aggressive as well as play hardcore eco... I've lost 1 TvT with this build out of like 30-40 games so far LOL Which actually was my own fault because I messed up the build order and played sloppy haha
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And how do you defend vs 8 Marine 3 Hellion Elevator? You just have the same amount of marines and a WM and a Raven. It is hard to defend even with good micro.
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Hellion builds are the only thing that are a little hard to hold with this build but its still possible.... Using the ravens Turrets as well as baiting them to the WM and target firing so that the Medivac losses its effectiveness is key otherwise you probably will just die.... LOL In this situation where I have fought a 1 base hellion build my Techlab is just about finishing on my Factory and I have a Starport with a techlab... So i start making a tank and Banshee and because of how my build is I usually have a 3rd CC down by this time even if i need to pull like 4 workers i still wind up MASSIVELY ahead....
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How do you fare against marine/tank/viking off 1base with that build? As that is my usual follow up to my banshee opener.
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Usually its extremely ez to hold...... as I will have tanks of my own as well as a Raven and Vikings with hellions coming out I have 1 bunker and I just have to hold and I win because I usually have 3 cc while you just 1 based LOL
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On February 21 2014 04:24 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Usually its extremely ez to hold...... as I will have tanks of my own as well as a Raven and Vikings with hellions coming out I have 1 bunker and I just have to hold and I win because I usually have 3 cc while you just 1 based LOL
Yeah it seems like the common theme now a days in TvT is 3cc every game regardless of the build because cloak banshee forces game to go longer
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Yea but 3 CC is pretty much your optimum saturation atleast gives you most of your production so thats why 3 CC is standard not because of banshee LOL My Games really and honestly don't last that long when I don't want them to.... unless i'm playing a very very good opponent.....
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On February 20 2014 22:44 Pirfiktshon wrote:Show nested quote +Is it normal in TvT if you see 12rax 12gas and no reaper to assume your opponent is going cloak banshee?
I just lost this guy who made the ideal composition to deal with cloak banshee (lots of marines, early ebay, raven) despite him only seeing 12rax 12gas and he didn't scout later in the game to see if I had expanded. Personally I could've expected maybe a turret and some marines to deal with banshee without cloak (viable off 1gas iirc) but the fact he build a Raven concerns me.
I asked him if he just got lucky but he said because he saw no reaper he assumed banshee. Considering there is a few things you could go for off 1gas (tank expand, marine hellion drop, mine drop, etc) I think it's a bit strange how he very efficiently dealt with a cloakshee.
This guys record wasn't great so he didn't stand out as a cheater or anything but I keep watching the replay back thinking how the hell he knew what he seemed to... I open raven / Marine / widow mine just about every game in TvT I am able to defend any early aggression including 8-8-8 and be counter aggressive as well as play hardcore eco... I've lost 1 TvT with this build out of like 30-40 games so far LOL Which actually was my own fault because I messed up the build order and played sloppy haha
Hey have you (or could you) post any replays of this build?
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I have already but here it is again.
This guy is my teammate he was masters
http://drop.sc/373757
This is actually a good representation of a lot of matches I play against on ladder in TvT
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Regarding TvZ: 3cc reaper opening (non-banshee)
Normally I like to move out with 4 hellions + 2 reapers, but with only 2 hellions, I usually only use one to scout for the zerg's third base while the rest defend the unfinished wall-off at my natural base. Using that scouting hellion, by what time if the zerg 3rd base is down should I assume that there is an all-in coming?
Does it matter if it is ling bling / roaches? Can I produce tanks against both?
How many bunkers do I need? I hear that you need 5 or so, but it feels pointless as there are no units to fill them.
And if you lose your hellions, is it game ending versus ling bling all in?
Thanks in advance, I'm having a lot of trouble versus zerg all ins.
I think I should note that I'm around ~1400 pt masters
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Just a bit of theorycrafting: Is there a place for late game/midgame reapers TvP? After messing around in the unit tester a bit I realized reapers, especially with upgrades do very well against gateway units and can actually avoid storms extremely easily. They don't quite have the dps of stimmed marines, but with regen, more HP (especially compared to stimmed marines) and that crazy speed they seem like a great option to poke and kite zealots, bait storms and harass.
They are very gas heavy (Other than the raven its the only unit that is not more minerals than gas) and with such a long build time they spend minerals relatively slowly while eating up gas quickly. Think of two rounds of reapers vs two rounds of marines... costs less minerals per min and a bunch of gas. At one supply, I wonder if they are worth making after the early game. ..
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The main downside of Reapers beyond the early game is that they take up valuable Marine production time.
Each Reaper is almost two Marines you don't have then and there.
You could in theory add on some Barracks with the intent to make Reapers out of them (as producing Reapers is very mineral light) but it would still cut into your gas.
And whilst they are good raiders (especially with 3/3) they suffer horribly from any armor on their target due to their low damage (4) double attack. 3/3 buffs a Reaper's damage from 4x2 to 7x2 (nearly doubling it) but armor works just as heavy, with the 4 armor on a 3/3 Zealot reducing it to 3x2 and 1x2 with Guardian Shield.
They've lost their building attack sadly so a hit squad of Reapers is not going to be able to snipe a tech structure quickly enough and if you want to hit the mineral line, a boosted Medivac with Marines will generally accomplish the same result but with more usability out of said Medivac/Marines.
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What is the best way to play against swarmhost+static defense (lots of spines&spores) with some infestors with mech?
Normally i stay at Tank+Raven/Viking and try to push him back.
Any other suggestions?
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Nearly every single one of my TvZ games are lost to a Speedling all in. I almost always go CC first, walling off the ramp, but literally the timing works out to right once my bunker is done and I lift up my CC, the lings always hit. They then just run right by the bunker and into my base. Should I be trying to rewall off with the factory? If I do, it delays my factory by a little bit, or should I not be lifting my CC as soon, currently I lift as soon as it becomes an oribital.
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On February 23 2014 00:51 Mertz wrote:
Nearly every single one of my TvZ games are lost to a Speedling all in. I almost always go CC first, walling off the ramp, but literally the timing works out to right once my bunker is done and I lift up my CC, the lings always hit. They then just run right by the bunker and into my base. Should I be trying to rewall off with the factory? If I do, it delays my factory by a little bit, or should I not be lifting my CC as soon, currently I lift as soon as it becomes an oribital.
When do you build your Bunker? I don't play CC first anymore but i guess normally the timing works out to be safe with your bunker.
I did build my bunker asap after both orbitals.
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On February 23 2014 00:51 Mertz wrote:
Nearly every single one of my TvZ games are lost to a Speedling all in. I almost always go CC first, walling off the ramp, but literally the timing works out to right once my bunker is done and I lift up my CC, the lings always hit. They then just run right by the bunker and into my base. Should I be trying to rewall off with the factory? If I do, it delays my factory by a little bit, or should I not be lifting my CC as soon, currently I lift as soon as it becomes an oribital.
If it hits that early, it's not hatch first. It's something you wanna scout. Once scouted, you wanna not lift your orbital. Eventually produce marines from your rax and go tank instead of hellion ( might aswell be a baneling bust ).
Earliest speed from hatch first is somewhat around 5:55, which is also something you scout (in which case you can choose to add full wall at nat before 3rd or add 3rd in the wall) or you micro hellions/scv's against the lings.
Anyway scout.
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On February 23 2014 00:49 saaaa wrote:
What is the best way to play against swarmhost+static defense (lots of spines&spores) with some infestors with mech?
Normally i stay at Tank+Raven/Viking and try to push him back.
Any other suggestions?
The 2/2 timing you should be aiming for playing mech will most times be able to break swarm hosts / static D, shouldn't be later than 16 Minutes though. If he skips everything and goes straight swarm hosts he might have enough to defend.
Anyways, if you didn't manage to break your opponent you wanna keep getting ravens, ~15 is a good number, have a viking fleet and add in BC's. There's no way a mech push is gonna break a Zerg that has a significant amount of Swarm hosts with Static D and Infestors. On the other hand once you got your money composition, which is pretty much full air, Vikings, Ravens, BC's, (Banshees) you win.
Just gotta turtle and defend as hard as you can, putting buildings at your front early is important ( im talking depots, turrets & PF's), and tanks behind them.
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I'm almost positive it's been asked before but how do you deal with a 10 gate chronoboosted zealot stalker msc poke when going reactor into 2 reapers? And what should I be looking for to tell me its' this build and not a macro build? I scout when i put down my gas at 12.
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On February 23 2014 04:50 Milantes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 00:49 saaaa wrote:
What is the best way to play against swarmhost+static defense (lots of spines&spores) with some infestors with mech?
Normally i stay at Tank+Raven/Viking and try to push him back.
Any other suggestions?
The 2/2 timing you should be aiming for playing mech will most times be able to break swarm hosts / static D, shouldn't be later than 16 Minutes though. If he skips everything and goes straight swarm hosts he might have enough to defend. Anyways, if you didn't manage to break your opponent you wanna keep getting ravens, ~15 is a good number, have a viking fleet and add in BC's. There's no way a mech push is gonna break a Zerg that has a significant amount of Swarm hosts with Static D and Infestors. On the other hand once you got your money composition, which is pretty much full air, Vikings, Ravens, BC's, (Banshees) you win. Just gotta turtle and defend as hard as you can, putting buildings at your front early is important ( im talking depots, turrets & PF's), and tanks behind them.
Did you have any replays for me?
I don't like so much BC's because they are so expensive and he can easily get some vipers and i'm f***** because he pull them into their static defense.
But i guess the 2/2 Timing is a great advice. Do have any replays with this style as well? would be great
THX!
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Quick question here.
Say I have 13 raxes and want to make a round of marines. That means hitting the hotkey for marines 13 TIMES, it just seems so unefficient.
There must be a more efficient and not as time consuming way to do this. Please let me know if you do know one 
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EPT
