EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 252
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
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Tzuborg
Norway171 Posts
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On February 19 2014 11:30 Tzuborg wrote: Is there a general consensus on which method is best for marine splitting? If yes, what's the secret? =) The way I split isn't that different from the way I form a concave. You know how when you have to quickly form a concave you split your bio into 3 groups, and move one left, one right, and one back, to get a really nice semicircle? (hopefully with a amove forward at the end) Splitting is really quite similar. When I split, I first control click my marines and move them behind everything else, by just a little bit. Be careful not to run them away from the battle, just move them back a couple hexes. From there, you concave your marines (this is crucial for a good split) and whatever group of marines banelings come at, concave that group individually, i.e. split into 3 groups and move those groups away from the banelings in 3 directions. Do this for any marines that the banelings come at. It of course also helps if you are concaved and split a little bit prior to the battle. What to not do while splitting-focus on splitting one group only and forget about the others, split down to every last individual marine (this only works if you have perfect control, because if you do this your marines don't fire and you can't kill the lings so you get overrun), or try to stutter-step without splitting. You should only do this in groups of less than 20 marines when there are less than 7 banelings and you can target well. The best stutter step you can do with splitting (if, for instance, you are caught way off guard and find your marines almost surrounded) is split, pause, split, pause, split, pause, and try to only split the marines the banelings are coming at, while the pauses are about 1 second each. Sorry for the wall of text, but splitting is an intricate art, as you try to achieve a fine balance between avoiding aoe and maintaining your army's dps. I find that I am quite good at splits (somehow I manage to beat low masters zergs and protosses when they outmacro me and I only use pure bio) and I hope this was informative. If you get confused, just remember: form a concave, and pull back marines that banelings are approaching, and don't get intimidated; you don't ever have to split every individual marine. | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
edit; vs protoss | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On February 19 2014 13:51 Fhiz wrote: Hey guys I was wondering was the build polt was using just a simple 3 rax with stim? Into either 4/5 rax or cc 4/5 rax? Simple as that? edit; vs protoss he has used several variations, but im assuming you mean reaper into 3 rax stim/shield. reaper cc depot 2 rax, reactor on first rax, tl on rax 2-3 when u dont need marines right away, stim/shield. (you can also do 2 reaper with same timing) | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On February 19 2014 11:11 Fhiz wrote: How do I distinguish aggressive roaches vs macro / safe roaches? Is it just if there is a third by x time? And if i see them with 4 hellions is it still right (after the nerf) to jump right into widow mines? you should be seeing the roaches all the way across the map, i usually prefer to switch fac for a tank and build an extra bunker, unless the nat is very narrow, then window mines are still decent. in terms of distinguishing what type of roach build, drone count, gas count, and third timing all factor into it. also if you see him make 3-4 overlords early, you know he's going to spam R on that next inject | ||
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terranimbastimamove
United States81 Posts
On February 19 2014 11:30 Tzuborg wrote: Is there a general consensus on which method is best for marine splitting? If yes, what's the secret? =) In my opinion the best way is repetition. Play the split challenge in Darglein's micro challenge for 5+ minutes a day and I promise you in a week you will be impressed with yourself. You can practice with or without creep, baneling speed and stim. This method works well, make sure the first click leaves two packs of marines behind and repeat the process. | ||
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PanzerElite
540 Posts
On February 19 2014 14:48 terranimbastimamove wrote: In my opinion the best way is repetition. Play the split challenge in Darglein's micro challenge for 5+ minutes a day and I promise you in a week you will be impressed with yourself. You can practice with or without creep, baneling speed and stim. This method works well, make sure the first click leaves two packs of marines behind and repeat the process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW6EpSt84Dc Marine split challenge does a better job imo, since you have to split in all directions. | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
On February 19 2014 14:02 nath wrote: he has used several variations, but im assuming you mean reaper into 3 rax stim/shield. reaper cc depot 2 rax, reactor on first rax, tl on rax 2-3 when u dont need marines right away, stim/shield. (you can also do 2 reaper with same timing) I know when to take guys out of gas at the start but when does he take gas 2/3/4 ? Also what is it that prompts him to get either rax 4/5 or a 3rd cc or was that just meta gaming vs rain (i think it was rain?) | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/news/237793/ | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
On February 19 2014 22:27 Nimix wrote: The IEM replays are out if you want to check the exact build order. http://www.esl.eu/eu/sc2/news/237793/ that was fast.. thanks! | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On February 19 2014 14:48 terranimbastimamove wrote: In my opinion the best way is repetition. Play the split challenge in Darglein's micro challenge for 5+ minutes a day and I promise you in a week you will be impressed with yourself. You can practice with or without creep, baneling speed and stim. This method works well, make sure the first click leaves two packs of marines behind and repeat the process. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW6EpSt84Dc It's not the best way to split imho, you have way to much time here and you put your marines way too far so they don't attack for a while. Better leaving bigger stacks but letting them fight for a while. In a real game situation, there isn't only banes, so if you do as you did in the clip, he won't even need his baneling to beat you. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On February 20 2014 00:00 Faust852 wrote: It's not the best way to split imho, you have way to much time here and you put your marines way too far so they don't attack for a while. Better leaving bigger stacks but letting them fight for a while. In a real game situation, there isn't only banes, so if you do as you did in the clip, he won't even need his baneling to beat you. Yes that clip is bad. | ||
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TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
Now the ladder is full of allins. Is it just me or does it look like this: TvP 80% of the games Toss is cheesy and tries to go allin with blink, chrono boosted Zealot, MSC, Stalker, or DT drop. TvZ 50% of the time they try to go 8-12 roaches, 20% Mass ling and 10% Baneling Ling allin. TvT 50% early Tank push, 1 base play or mass reaper. Most opponents are really bad at multitasking and macro, so they just go for allin builds. Such a shame, I can't remember having so many allins on ladder in the past. I guess I just have to play very safe and then go for a macro build. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
98% of my TvT are cloakshee into 3 tank push which makes it easy to win because it has a lot of vulnerabilities TvZ is like 60% some type of bane bust and 25% Roach into muta dual attack hahaha I'm having a rough time this season I have gotten pretty high on ladder but this season i'm like #15 in Diamond right now? Ofcourse I have not really played ladder hardcore for like 6 months and now am just going for it but we will see... hopefully i break atleast mid masters T.T | ||
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Vipermagi
47 Posts
I am plat level terran, struggling vs protoss players obviously hehe I have watched many terran player streams, and I need your help and advices with developing the build which is safe vs allins and can continue game after defending. My plan is to get expand asap and not be economically behind while being safe vs allins. [Step 1] You are platinum terran player. Entering battle.net 1v1 mode. Now you see your enemy is going to be protoss. Your plan is to expand asap and be safe and not economically behind. Thats what I am trying to achieve. I open with reaper for scouting purpose. Checking proxy locations etc. Then I see protoss not expanding. I cannot enter protoss base so I scanner him. See nothing. Then suddenly 2 oracles hittin my mineral line GG [Step 2] You open with reaper early and adding factory fast for widow mines in mineral line Checking proxy locations, see nothing. Checking protoss natural see no expansion. Same scenario. I fail to enter protoss base and then dts destroying me GG [Step 3] Same scenario but now I add ebay for turret in front Toss no natural etc. Dont know what coming. I got widow mines in mineral lines. turret and bunker at front of natural. Reaper searching for proxy locations. And then Blink Stalkers coming and kill me GG [Step 4] I doing same scenario but now adding tanks on high ground and bunker just in case. The enemy 5gate warp prism me Ok better luck next time GG [Step 5] Now I am making defensive viking, adding another turret in main base just in case even sensor tower to be safe. Tanks and bunker on high ground. Widow mines in mineral lines. Bunkers and turret at front of natural. Reaper searching proxy on minimap. I am finally safe, but wait. Protoss decided to expand this time. And I dont know what to do because I feel I am very far behind now. I simple cant attack him because he got nexus cannon and robo when he play expand style so he is safe vs everything I can throw at him. And I die in Late game this time. How do I continue this matchup? I have no idea what I should do. Its like poker game where your enemy know your cards and decides how to own you. Its not imbalance thread, thats not my point. I simple dont understand what I can do better? I dont want to play with handicap from the begining. I feel this is so luck based matchup for me. I feel like protoss got too many options. Watched sc2casts games in searching for TvP good example games. I noticed one fact. There is no single pro game with terran wining under 10 minutes. While there is many when protoss own terrans. Watching Avilo stream now. He is grandmaster and he struggling same scenarios so far as far as I see. Help apprecieated. Thanks | ||
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Marathi
298 Posts
I just lost this guy who made the ideal composition to deal with cloak banshee (lots of marines, early ebay, raven) despite him only seeing 12rax 12gas and he didn't scout later in the game to see if I had expanded. Personally I could've expected maybe a turret and some marines to deal with banshee without cloak (viable off 1gas iirc) but the fact he build a Raven concerns me. I asked him if he just got lucky but he said because he saw no reaper he assumed banshee. Considering there is a few things you could go for off 1gas (tank expand, marine hellion drop, mine drop, etc) I think it's a bit strange how he very efficiently dealt with a cloakshee. This guys record wasn't great so he didn't stand out as a cheater or anything but I keep watching the replay back thinking how the hell he knew what he seemed to... | ||
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B-rye88
Canada168 Posts
On February 20 2014 08:15 Marathi wrote: Is it normal in TvT if you see 12rax 12gas and no reaper to assume your opponent is going cloak banshee? I just lost this guy who made the ideal composition to deal with cloak banshee (lots of marines, early ebay, raven) despite him only seeing 12rax 12gas and he didn't scout later in the game to see if I had expanded. Personally I could've expected maybe a turret and some marines to deal with banshee without cloak (viable off 1gas iirc) but the fact he build a Raven concerns me. I asked him if he just got lucky but he said because he saw no reaper he assumed banshee. Considering there is a few things you could go for off 1gas (tank expand, marine hellion drop, mine drop, etc) I think it's a bit strange how he very efficiently dealt with a cloakshee. This guys record wasn't great so he didn't stand out as a cheater or anything but I keep watching the replay back thinking how the hell he knew what he seemed to... ? Seems pretty weird. Pretty easy to go fast reactor factory ala TvZ and just hellion own him. That having been said, cloak banshee is super popular, so it's not a bad guess given the meta. | ||
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B-rye88
Canada168 Posts
On February 20 2014 07:43 Vipermagi wrote: Hello I am plat level terran, struggling vs protoss players obviously hehe I have watched many terran player streams, and I need your help and advices with developing the build which is safe vs allins and can continue game after defending. My plan is to get expand asap and not be economically behind while being safe vs allins. [Step 1] You are platinum terran player. Entering battle.net 1v1 mode. Now you see your enemy is going to be protoss. Your plan is to expand asap and be safe and not economically behind. Thats what I am trying to achieve. I open with reaper for scouting purpose. Checking proxy locations etc. Then I see protoss not expanding. I cannot enter protoss base so I scanner him. See nothing. Then suddenly 2 oracles hittin my mineral line GG [Step 2] You open with reaper early and adding factory fast for widow mines in mineral line Checking proxy locations, see nothing. Checking protoss natural see no expansion. Same scenario. I fail to enter protoss base and then dts destroying me GG [Step 3] Same scenario but now I add ebay for turret in front Toss no natural etc. Dont know what coming. I got widow mines in mineral lines. turret and bunker at front of natural. Reaper searching for proxy locations. And then Blink Stalkers coming and kill me GG [Step 4] I doing same scenario but now adding tanks on high ground and bunker just in case. The enemy 5gate warp prism me Ok better luck next time GG [Step 5] Now I am making defensive viking, adding another turret in main base just in case even sensor tower to be safe. Tanks and bunker on high ground. Widow mines in mineral lines. Bunkers and turret at front of natural. Reaper searching proxy on minimap. I am finally safe, but wait. Protoss decided to expand this time. And I dont know what to do because I feel I am very far behind now. I simple cant attack him because he got nexus cannon and robo when he play expand style so he is safe vs everything I can throw at him. And I die in Late game this time. How do I continue this matchup? I have no idea what I should do. Its like poker game where your enemy know your cards and decides how to own you. Its not imbalance thread, thats not my point. I simple dont understand what I can do better? I dont want to play with handicap from the begining. I feel this is so luck based matchup for me. I feel like protoss got too many options. Watched sc2casts games in searching for TvP good example games. I noticed one fact. There is no single pro game with terran wining under 10 minutes. While there is many when protoss own terrans. Watching Avilo stream now. He is grandmaster and he struggling same scenarios so far as far as I see. Help apprecieated. Thanks Reaper expand into MKP (2-rax stim with ebay for +1 and available turrets) or select/polt (3-rax stim/CC). IMO hold off on widow mine drops until you are capable of microing it well, pay enough attention to scout the protoss while doing it, and still macro at home. Survive early game and in the mid-game DONT try to kill your opponent but rather contain him and safely expand + tech into the counter of his 2-base tech (2nd starport for colossus play, GA for templar play). Against templar play split your army into two and threaten both the natural and any attempts to build a third, drops to the main can be very costly, against colossus leave some defense at home to protect against warp prisms and threaten drops to the main more aggressively; if you can snipe his robo when he's on 2 bases then you will have a window to SCV pull if you like, or you can just be really ahead. Get to the late game with an economic edge, solid upgrades, and available tech to counter both templar or colossus and you will be fine against late-game toss. You will also have opportunities to punish a toss who over-extends. | ||
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terranimbastimamove
United States81 Posts
On February 20 2014 00:00 Faust852 wrote: It's not the best way to split imho, you have way to much time here and you put your marines way too far so they don't attack for a while. Better leaving bigger stacks but letting them fight for a while. In a real game situation, there isn't only banes, so if you do as you did in the clip, he won't even need his baneling to beat you. I've played the split challenge and I really don't like the randomness because that sort of scenario will never happen in an actual game if you don't let it. The reason why I prefer Darglien's micro challenge is because it allows you to change the variables so you can practice each scenario (early, mid and late game) and the consistency remains the same for each group of banelings. Personally I only use Darglein's split challenge as a warm-up exercise before I play any ladder games now a days but in the beginning I used it to not suck at playing terran. | ||
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