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On February 27 2014 05:50 Stazzle wrote: I have a question on scouting, mainly vs toss (as a high goldleaguer, so builds arent always clean). I open reaper in both TvP and TvZ and i try to scout with it. Against protoss i have a hard time knowing what he's committing too, here's some thought process examples and perhaps you can tell me if im correct.
1. fast robo - no clue what this does really, usually it seems to mean fast robobay + colossus, why would they go for this?
2. fast twilight - this is tricky, it can either be blink, charge or dts or even storm. should i just get a turret at front regardless? Is there something i can see from #gas taken? (most toss take a lot of gas regardless of tech)
3. fast nexus - just tech'ing up i guess? Why dont all toss do this since i dont see how you can punish it.
Also when i scout just a gateway + cybercore at what point (perhaps a time?) should i start getting worried about a proxy?
anything i'm missing?
Don't take this to be 100% true but from what I've found, if you can get a scan on the twilight (I typically scan between 5:45 and 6:00 if I don't blubber up and accidently mule) and it's chrono boosting it's (almost)garantueed to be blink. If you scan around this time you will have just enough time to get bunkers up in the main, or so I've found.
If you scan twilight and it's NOT chrono boosting throw down a turret in front of your nat. It might still be charge or storm (or more typically, charge AND storm) however you can't really know without seeing the dt shrine so might as well throw down a turret.
EDIT: for my "timings" (and I use the word loosely) I took "fast twilight" to mean "no expo before twilight".
With the Widow Mine buff against Protoss, clearly I'm supposed to open 1-1-1. What the hell is my build and what am I actually supposed to accomplish with such a build? I keep on getting wrecked.
On March 01 2014 14:15 geokilla wrote: With the Widow Mine buff against Protoss, clearly I'm supposed to open 1-1-1. What the hell is my build and what am I actually supposed to accomplish with such a build? I keep on getting wrecked.
You don't have to open 1/1/1. You can mix in mines vs any non colossus composition, you have a factory anyway to make a starport. Pretty easy to just slap a reactor on it and mine them pesky protoss's up.
Hi everyone, I am 1000+ point terran player who still has trouble with TvP. I don't like to idle and do nothing because I play SC2 to have fun not do nothing but macro for 20 minutes then amove vs amove. This replay is a perfect example of my playstyle and how a lot of the TvP's that I lose go:
Firstly I traded quite evenly up until I threw away 2 medivacs yet even then am still in not a bad spot. The first big engagement I kind of botched, but I killed his army and still had a hefty amount of bio left. This is where I get antsy and feel like I can win the game even though I scan his high templar and I have no ghosts I still felt I could do something. The game goes downhill from there and in hindsight I should have regrouped after the battle and went after +3 armor finished, maybe even send some units to his main while hitting his 5th.
If there is any other terran players that could give me some advice or maybe even just their thoughts on my play style so that I can improve. Thank you for reading and I look forward to your replies!
Hi guys. Could someone please look at this TvZ (High Diamond). I was ahead BY FAR the first 30minutes - looking at the income graph isn't even funny. I kept the Z economy low, but somehow (HOW?!?!) he managed to get 10 ultras, it's just downhill from there.
What should I have done differently? Transition into mass ravens lategame? I had a great economy, much better than him, but somehow, I still managed to lose. Could someone please have a look at this?
On March 03 2014 06:48 terranimbastimamove wrote: Hi everyone, I am 1000+ point terran player who still has trouble with TvP. I don't like to idle and do nothing because I play SC2 to have fun not do nothing but macro for 20 minutes then amove vs amove. This replay is a perfect example of my playstyle and how a lot of the TvP's that I lose go:
Firstly I traded quite evenly up until I threw away 2 medivacs yet even then am still in not a bad spot. The first big engagement I kind of botched, but I killed his army and still had a hefty amount of bio left. This is where I get antsy and feel like I can win the game even though I scan his high templar and I have no ghosts I still felt I could do something. The game goes downhill from there and in hindsight I should have regrouped after the battle and went after +3 armor finished, maybe even send some units to his main while hitting his 5th.
If there is any other terran players that could give me some advice or maybe even just their thoughts on my play style so that I can improve. Thank you for reading and I look forward to your replies!
Your supply count the whole game seemed really low do me despite your great macro (at least your money was low, but your income seemed low too..). This could be a consequence of your opening, your CC is delayed by quite a bit going fact first and you did little to no damage. If you like opening mine drop, maybe you should go for the fact after CC build. I'm pretty sure you would have won mid game with a more economic opening. On top of that the drop is only delayed a bit compared to the build you used this game, so it's not a case of macroing 20mn without attacking at all. You could also have been more confident in your late game engagements I think, you lost quite a bit of supply (mostly expensive ghosts) running away from his army when I think you could have engaged and blanked EMPd. But that's beyond the point, in my opinion your opener put you pretty far behind and that was the main problem.
On March 04 2014 01:48 pali_ wrote: Hi guys. Could someone please look at this TvZ (High Diamond). I was ahead BY FAR the first 30minutes - looking at the income graph isn't even funny. I kept the Z economy low, but somehow (HOW?!?!) he managed to get 10 ultras, it's just downhill from there.
What should I have done differently? Transition into mass ravens lategame? I had a great economy, much better than him, but somehow, I still managed to lose. Could someone please have a look at this?
Hey, I watched the first 30mn of your replay, the end wasn't relevant I think as you should have won earlier. You basically made several mistakes or bad judgement and decisions, but it wasn't very important as you had a huge supply lead. Your main problem was that your rally was at home, and you fought with half your army most of the time. You should set your rally near your army if you're going to push, unless you know he's very likely to counter. Here are the other things I saw that could use improvement; -You overmade tanks because you seemed unsure whether he was full all in or just pressuring, you had 5 tanks in your first push, and they delayed your upgrades quite a bit so you were even with him. -Your first push was late, because you delayed your raxes quite a lot under the pressure, and your rax production mostly kicked in only once you were on 3 bases. It is very hard to now screw up your build under pressure at our level of play though : ( -You overmade SCVs a bit, you had 75 at a point I think, it may have hurt you during some of the maxed fights. -You dropped several times without a clear purpose. Dropping in TvZ is pretty hard in my opinion as you need to know where his mutas are. In your case, he was on 3 close bases and his mutas always were around, so you shouldn't have dropped at all in my opinion. -You threw away big clumps of mines by leaving them unprotected. -Your max composition wasn't very good against his, you needed some thors to prevent muta clumping/sniping, have more dps against ultras, and soak banes. Also maybe some hellbats.
But mostly if you fought with your whole army and/or had a rally nearby, I think you would have crushed him. I'm high diamond myself and play old Innovation rally-push style, and it still works very well with worse macro than you, though better micro I think. So next time scout a bit more if you're unsure what you're playing against, and be more in his face in the mid game, and you should be fine!
On March 04 2014 01:48 pali_ wrote: Hi guys. Could someone please look at this TvZ (High Diamond). I was ahead BY FAR the first 30minutes - looking at the income graph isn't even funny. I kept the Z economy low, but somehow (HOW?!?!) he managed to get 10 ultras, it's just downhill from there.
What should I have done differently? Transition into mass ravens lategame? I had a great economy, much better than him, but somehow, I still managed to lose. Could someone please have a look at this?
You didn't really build efficient units; you should aim for thor bio hellbat against ultra infestor ling bling muta, and if you choose to stick with pure bio you need to be active with it, and ALWAYS have 2 groups of units active on the map threatening to snipe bases. You can consider building up your base defense (with PFs, bunkers, tanks) to defend while you counterattack with a portion of your army. Think polt TvP. In your lategame, you should probably consider more macro orbitals to stripmine bases really quickly while you still have them. You only had three orbitals when you should have closer to 8, so then you can also sack some scvs. But ultimately work on the composition, as ultras have a really hard time dealing with something like 6 upgraded thors backed by marine marauders.
On March 04 2014 11:51 Seeker wrote: TvZ question: Do widow mines sucks now? Should I abandon 4M, 3M and move on to something else?
Widow mines are ok but in smaller engagements where you can control them correctly. Having <10 of them with your bio army, split up when you're pushing is still better then not having them but once you get 10+ you'll struggle to be able to remain mobile and have them well positioned at which point you want to move into hellbats instead (or just cut them altogether).
Remember that any composition or strategy is only as good as your ability to execute it. If you don't want to make widow mines because they're too APM demanding, then don't. Stick to hellbat/thor/bio because it's slightly easier to handle or smth.
On March 04 2014 23:28 ROOTiaguz wrote: Explosive payload - light units that tend to be clumped up
high impact- units that aren't the former, ie, bc's, broodlords.
Also, vs ravens high impact doesn't get effected by pdd,
In general I think the splash is almost always more useful than the extra dps. For example vs pheonix the dps is better in explosive mode, but vs voids the dps is better in highimpact...BUT since voids tend to stack explosive tends to work much better. Basically only use the high impact mode against Ravens, and non-light units that are NOT stacked which is basically the Tempest, and BCs. I think the splash is better against large numbers of broodlords which tend to stack a fair amount.
Along the same lines, things like small amounts medivacs which don't clump all that much die quicker when in high impact, but vikes, which clump a bunch take more damage from explosive.
HI-P: Tempest, Carrier (ouch either way), RAVEN, Medivac, BCs, Small amounts of broods/corruptors (not very common) EX-P: Pheonix, voids, banshee, large amounts of Vikes, mutas, large amounts of broods/corruptors
On March 04 2014 12:01 Fhiz wrote: what do you guys think about Flash's display in TvT vs mech. With the BCS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGdvQcTe5lI just caught gumiho off guard?
My thoughts are:
If you have a big enough economic lead that you can stave off death while you transition, great; should be pretty solid.
If you are fairly even with your opponent and relying on him not scouting it, then it's the same as any other fast-tech transition. If he spots you or hits you with a timing push, you dead son.
It's nice against mech in that the window where his timing pushes can hit and kill you (ie. tank pushes and such) are smaller, as nothing shoots up other than vikings in that composition and having 2-3 BC's will be very good. Against marine tech, the window is larger imo.
On March 04 2014 23:28 ROOTiaguz wrote: Explosive payload - light units that tend to be clumped up
high impact- units that aren't the former, ie, bc's, broodlords.
Also, vs ravens high impact doesn't get effected by pdd,
In general I think the splash is almost always more useful than the extra dps. For example vs pheonix the dps is better in explosive mode, but vs voids the dps is better in highimpact...BUT since voids tend to stack explosive tends to work much better. Basically only use the high impact mode against Ravens, and non-light units that are NOT stacked which is basically the Tempest, and BCs. I think the splash is better against large numbers of broodlords which tend to stack a fair amount.
Along the same lines, things like small amounts medivacs which don't clump all that much die quicker when in high impact, but vikes, which clump a bunch take more damage from explosive.
HI-P: Tempest, Carrier (ouch either way), RAVEN, Medivac, BCs, Small amounts of broods/corruptors (not very common) EX-P: Pheonix, voids, banshee, large amounts of Vikes, mutas, large amounts of broods/corruptors
Usually you want to leave the Thors in Explosive (Splash) Mode. All units that may get better damage from HIP mode are so lategame that you should be able to get Vikings out easily and are better off with those then. Vikings take Tempests, Carriers, BCs and Broodlords out a lot better than Thors in HIP mode. As you're usually in a situation where you face a lot of air units, they should quite much always stack a little, making the Explosive mode better again. If you're playing Mech into Mass Raven, the Thor's Explosive mode is also nice to clean up the survivors of a Seeker Missile bombardement. Btw. against Carriers I'd also prefer the Explosive mode, because it kills the Interceptors faster.
So overall imo HIP mode is only better in a 1v1 fight against one armored air unit, but when does that happen? For the rest you should be better off just leaving Thors in Explosive mode.
Does a page exist where i can find some usefull timings for terran? Like when to scan in tvp (like 5:45-6:00), when mutas pop out, when´s the perfect window for the terran to attack/poke a protoss/storm/collossus timings etc... I think thats the next step i should take to improve.
And does there exist a replaypack of Flash or Innovation (my favorite ones) from hots? i dont like vods to copy/learn builds...
EPT
