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On March 09 2014 15:30 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 08:30 ander wrote:
Can anyone point me towards a TvT guide that explains it from start to finish? I don't understand the counters and builds of this matchup at all.
Typically i open 12rax 15gas into 1/1/1. Banshee openers never do damage, but I lose to either the tank push that comes after, or a fast 3rd CC that gets faster upgrades. Besides that, I lose to everything from 1/1/1 tank drops with marines and vikings to 3raxes. I just don't understand what it is i'm supposed to be scouting for, and how to respond when i do. There is a really good one linked to on the reddit AllThingsTerran sidebar, by YuMe i think? But for TvT i found I got a lot better once I found a build that let me set the tempo of the game, because often aggression is easier than defending, and doing both in combination is even more difficult. If you go gas first banshee into 2 more rax/upgrades following it, with expo, I find you are never really far behind in army supply against any build and thus can be the aggressor more, which basically boils down to sieging your tanks and attacking where he isn't, defending at home with more tanks of your own. Having map control makes the positioning so much easier.
I go reapers into bio via a byun 3 reaper build. 3 reapers scout, and set tempo of aggression, and I go into bio with an early ebay for turrets vs cloakshees.
Works well for me.
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Hey all,
I'm currently playing tvz with pure bio. It's going alright, but I'm wondering if making hellions in the early game is a must. I open cc first and just go straight into 3-5 rax with medivacs, but it makes me feel really uneasy letting zerg do absolutely anything he/she wants until i'm ready to hit at the 10-11 minute mark. It's also really easy for the zerg to all in me with very little I could to prepare for. Are hellions essential for the early game, and if it is, are there any good bio build orders that incorporate them?
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Hellions are really important for both safety, scouting, and applying pressure early game. If you open pure bio and zergs scouts well, he can either wreck you with an all in or play ridiculously greedy. Check the 4M TvZ TL strategy guide for good build orders!
Also, if you want to play pure bio without hellions, it's kind of possible but you need to do something before 10mn, like a combat shields push.
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So I'm starting to play starcraft more and more again and well since I love mech in tvt and tvz I'd also like to use it in tvp. I know its not very viable but there are terrans that pull of some great stuff anyway's with mech vs toss. So I was wondering if anyone could help me with a build and/or a guide on how to properly play mech in tvp. Thanks!
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On March 09 2014 22:53 Razac wrote:
So I'm starting to play starcraft more and more again and well since I love mech in tvt and tvz I'd also like to use it in tvp. I know its not very viable but there are terrans that pull of some great stuff anyway's with mech vs toss. So I was wondering if anyone could help me with a build and/or a guide on how to properly play mech in tvp. Thanks!
Here's a replay of the last mech game I played in TvP. I use an opener I ripped from Mario, that is, going hellion drop after expanding. It's definitely a different way to play, and it's incredibly easy to die to something unexpected. But I think it's a totally viable way to play up to Grandmaster, and we even see some matches from pros where they try it.
Here's my diamond level replay from the KR server:
http://drop.sc/376126
The great thing about this build is that it's extremely safe against most protoss early pressure. You have enough marines in the early game to shoo away oracles, the early siege tanks protect against blink plays, and if you suspect dts, just save scans until you know you're safe. Macro, harass, and constantly scout the toss army so you know what you're up against and prepare and adequate composition. My opponent made a huge mistake in a-moving up the ramp and dying, but it gives you an idea of how strong your army can be if you get the perfect engagement.
There are a bunch of intricacies to meching in TvP that I can't possibly write down, but feel free to ask any questions, and there are a bunch of guides out there anyways.
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On March 09 2014 22:01 halpimcat wrote:
Hey all,
I'm currently playing tvz with pure bio. It's going alright, but I'm wondering if making hellions in the early game is a must. I open cc first and just go straight into 3-5 rax with medivacs, but it makes me feel really uneasy letting zerg do absolutely anything he/she wants until i'm ready to hit at the 10-11 minute mark. It's also really easy for the zerg to all in me with very little I could to prepare for. Are hellions essential for the early game, and if it is, are there any good bio build orders that incorporate them?
12 rax
13 gas
3 marine then reactor
factory
tech lab on 1st rax, combat shield
CC
build 4-6 helions+third CC
add 2 rax+second gas
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On March 09 2014 22:05 Nimix wrote:
Hellions are really important for both safety, scouting, and applying pressure early game. If you open pure bio and zergs scouts well, he can either wreck you with an all in or play ridiculously greedy. Check the 4M TvZ TL strategy guide for good build orders!
Also, if you want to play pure bio without hellions, it's kind of possible but you need to do something before 10mn, like a combat shields push.
also hellions deal with mass reaper fairly well
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On March 09 2014 22:01 halpimcat wrote:
Hey all,
I'm currently playing tvz with pure bio. It's going alright, but I'm wondering if making hellions in the early game is a must. I open cc first and just go straight into 3-5 rax with medivacs, but it makes me feel really uneasy letting zerg do absolutely anything he/she wants until i'm ready to hit at the 10-11 minute mark. It's also really easy for the zerg to all in me with very little I could to prepare for. Are hellions essential for the early game, and if it is, are there any good bio build orders that incorporate them?
If you play without hellions you either have to be incredibly greedy (3cc before gas) or fairly aggressive (combat shields push) otherwise you just get overrun.
As for build orders, I see no reason why you can't use a standard 4M build, except without building mines after around 11 minutes.
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On March 10 2014 03:33 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 22:01 halpimcat wrote:
Hey all,
I'm currently playing tvz with pure bio. It's going alright, but I'm wondering if making hellions in the early game is a must. I open cc first and just go straight into 3-5 rax with medivacs, but it makes me feel really uneasy letting zerg do absolutely anything he/she wants until i'm ready to hit at the 10-11 minute mark. It's also really easy for the zerg to all in me with very little I could to prepare for. Are hellions essential for the early game, and if it is, are there any good bio build orders that incorporate them? If you play without hellions you either have to be incredibly greedy (3cc before gas) or fairly aggressive (combat shields push) otherwise you just get overrun. As for build orders, I see no reason why you can't use a standard 4M build, except without building mines after around 11 minutes.
Great advice. See bomber vs JD on Frost for a recent pure bio 2-2 push after opening CC first.
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I'm currently playing tvz with pure bio. It's going alright, but I'm wondering if making hellions in the early game is a must. I open cc first and just go straight into 3-5 rax with medivacs, but it makes me feel really uneasy letting zerg do absolutely anything he/she wants until i'm ready to hit at the 10-11 minute mark. It's also really easy for the zerg to all in me with very little I could to prepare for. Are hellions essential for the early game, and if it is, are there any good bio build orders that incorporate them?
I've played pure bio ALOT like alot alot. Especially in Clan wars when I was in T2P. I've had a lot of success and the major reason being is that abusing timings. Which you can't safely do unless you know what your opponent is doing. #1 thing to note is that when you scout with a bio build and you see zerg go for an early gas build opening with speed your combat shield timing is significantly weaker. So you have to pretty much go for Hellion build. So going for a combat shield timing is a significantly larger gamble on a 4 player map. Where yes #1 you will have an easier time hiding the combat shield timing initially, but your move out will be easily scouted #2 and you don't know if they opened with speed. The current meta zerg opens with speed just about every game. That's why this timing has pretty much vanished aside from Bombers random games where he pulls it off. So it's better to go for the hellion and if you want to be aggressive and think you can get something done depending on the map ( Daedalus i'm looking at you ) then going for hellion banshee into pure bio is also viable.
Pure bio isn't something that you can just allow your opponent to do what he wants and that is the biggest and most important thing when playing bio you HAVE to make him play to your tempo or the game will spiral out of control. Yeonsu is one of the maps that this style is favored because there is alot of abusive drop spots you can utilize for the 3rd as well as main. Same thing with Heavy rain. I would not suggest going pure bio on Frost unless you open aggressive and do good damage.
Also to bring up about defending all ins... is also about scouting which is something really hard to do if you have 0 map control which is also why opening with atleast hellions is the better option in most cases. Mines defend against roaches pretty well with bunkers and hellions defend against ling bane. If you go pure bio and don't open with hellions you have to be ready to burn a scan after you scout with 2 marines for a possible 3rd to see what tech he is going. If he goes Hydra / roach with a fast 2-2 you will lose out with just pure bio.... otherwise continuing your course getting medivacs out ASAP to put pressure on his creep/bases as much as possible is going key.
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Hi, I need a link to an explanation of Taeja's biomech build, with bio, hellbats, and thors. Thanks.
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On March 11 2014 01:27 Empirimancer wrote:
Hi, I need a link to an explanation of Taeja's biomech build, with bio, hellbats, and thors. Thanks.
What kind of explanation do you want?
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On March 11 2014 01:44 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2014 01:27 Empirimancer wrote:
Hi, I need a link to an explanation of Taeja's biomech build, with bio, hellbats, and thors. Thanks. What kind of explanation do you want?
How to open, approximately when to get key buildings, approximately when to get upgrades, how to engage.
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Its essentially the same as the Bio mine style in regards to opening but you get hellbats and blueflame instead and +vehicle attack.
How it is played is the key difference
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Is there a way not to lose TvZ cross map on frost or alterzim while playing bio against a competent player? It takes like 2 damn production rounds to cross the map and I feel like you can't fight on even footing ever.. I don't want to play mech into air deathball 
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Serious question for all the high level terran bosses in here.
If you were going to play a bo3 series vs a protoss known to be cheesy, like one base 4 gate, or one base blink cheesy, how would you open? especially on polar night, habitation and heavy rain?
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On March 11 2014 01:48 Empirimancer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2014 01:44 TheDwf wrote:On March 11 2014 01:27 Empirimancer wrote:
Hi, I need a link to an explanation of Taeja's biomech build, with bio, hellbats, and thors. Thanks. What kind of explanation do you want? How to open, approximately when to get key buildings, approximately when to get upgrades, how to engage.
On March 11 2014 01:49 Dunmer wrote:
Its essentially the same as the Bio mine style in regards to opening but you get hellbats and blueflame instead and +vehicle attack.
How it is played is the key difference
This. I talked about a bit about bio/Hellbats/Thors in this post.
On March 11 2014 17:37 Doc Brawler wrote:
Serious question for all the high level terran bosses in here.
If you were going to play a bo3 series vs a protoss known to be cheesy, like one base 4 gate, or one base blink cheesy, how would you open? especially on polar night, habitation and heavy rain?
Reaper expand into 3 rax or 1-1-1 (avoid 1-1-1 on Heavy Rain because defending Blink with Tanks is awkward).
On March 11 2014 03:27 Nimix wrote:Is there a way not to lose TvZ cross map on frost or alterzim while playing bio against a competent player? It takes like 2 damn production rounds to cross the map and I feel like you can't fight on even footing ever.. I don't want to play mech into air deathball
Those positions are definitely harder, yes. On cross Alterzim, you have more room to use drops; the map is big, so it's more difficult for him to have creep/overs everywhere. I think you have to be more inclined towards lategame in those positions.
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So what would you do late game if you open bio? Going into raven/vikings/BCs anyway while delaying him with drops and stuff? Or going into hellbat/thor/bio? I feel like the later wouldn't be enough. It also depends on what your opponent does I guess.
Maybe I'm just too bad at dropping at several places at once, it should be hell for zerg to defend permanent dual pronged drops (especially as some of the guys I play seem to like going infestors into fast hive). I'll focus on that. Though giant muta balls really scare me if they go for muta/ling/bane
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On March 11 2014 17:37 Doc Brawler wrote:
Serious question for all the high level terran bosses in here.
If you were going to play a bo3 series vs a protoss known to be cheesy, like one base 4 gate, or one base blink cheesy, how would you open? especially on polar night, habitation and heavy rain?
1 rax reaper expand with 4:45 ebay or maybe 2 rax expand.
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With the new mine buffs, how do you transition into them?
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EPT
