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Is there a guide to scouting in TvP? I can't seem to figure out exactly what I should be looking for. I am caught off guard constantly, even if I'm able to gather key information. There always seems to be 2-3 different builds that look exactly the same, not to mention proxies, fake tech, and abnormal/uncommon builds.
I used to use this guide quite a bit last year. Loads of good information on scouting.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=411085
Outside of that, general tips:
Even if you go reaper, scv scout around 13-14 supply.
Be as active as you can with the reaoer and do not lose it
If you smell a proxy, hunt for it with the reaper!
If you need to verify 1 base blink / DT (this one can be a real pain and often feels like a guess game), look for:
more than one stalker / fast msc / pylons not in sneaky corners of his main --> probably blink.
Otherwise distract his stuff with your scv scout in order to get in there with the reaper.
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There are guides, I find that they keep changing with the meta, I don't play all that much so when I try to read guides the tend to be out of date so I just play a bunch of games and figure it out for myself.
Here's a list of Protoss timings from imbabuilds: http://imbabuilds.com/guides/protoss-timings/
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On February 05 2014 00:33 JDfz wrote:
Even if you go reaper, scv scout around 13-14 supply.
What for ?
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10 Gate or chronoboosted zealot / stalker, for example. if you wait for the reaper to start scouting, you will spot these too late, as far as I can tell. another strat that comes into mind is proxy 2gate. also, "hard" proxies, where the second pylon is being proxied can be spotted earlier with a scv scout.
also, on 4 player maps, a scv scout prior to a reaper scout is pretty much mandatory ....
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On February 05 2014 02:03 Daeneroc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 00:33 JDfz wrote:
Even if you go reaper, scv scout around 13-14 supply.
What for ?
on 2 palyer maps, scv scout right after the rax completes. The scv is just looking for an early zealot (just send it to the opponents natural and poke up the ramp, if you haven't encountered a zealot by then, you can build cc on low ground)
13-14 is unnesecarily early, scouting at 16 after the rax is done and oc starts is fine
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Ok thx ... that could help me indeed against those early pokes i was speaking about 
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SCV scouting really helps to identify a proxy oracle before it is too late as well ^^
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On February 05 2014 08:01 Fhiz wrote:
SCV scouting really helps to identify a proxy oracle before it is too late as well ^^
a reaper going beeline into the protoss base makes can spot 2 pylons (one missing coz its a proxy oracle) and lack of either msc, warpgate, or stalker and you can put a eng bay + turret up in time.
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On February 05 2014 08:22 Smurfett3 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 08:01 Fhiz wrote:
SCV scouting really helps to identify a proxy oracle before it is too late as well ^^ a reaper going beeline into the protoss base makes can spot 2 pylons (one missing coz its a proxy oracle) and lack of either msc, warpgate, or stalker and you can put a eng bay + turret up in time.
If you're playing vs the style where Protoss proxies their second pylon for the stargate however, unless your build incorporates an engineering bay or you delay your first rax / fact until after you scout this timing in case of it you wont be able to get eng bay + turret in time. Not to mention they could also be proxying a Twilight or Robo instead, in which case 225 / 325 minerals and delayed production can make a pretty big difference in holding off blink / dt / immortal all-ins. The SCV scout would let you know there's a proxy and get your reaper out on the map searching for proxies immediately rather than going to your opponent's base for the information first.
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You SCV scout at 14 or 15 so you know whether to build the reactor after reaper or not.
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On February 05 2014 02:03 Daeneroc wrote:
What for ?
Personal preference really. On 2 player maps it can be fine to scout with the scv that finishes the barracks. I prefer scouting around 14 simply because you're able to spot 10 gates / chrono'd zealot/stalker/msc more quickly and react accordingly (e.g. with a quick bunker on the high ground). You're more certain of being able to ebay block if you wish to, and if you identify a proxy with the scv you can send the reaper to hunt it down immediately.
The reactor -> 2x reaper builds are also a good option to maximize scouting potential. They deal with zealot pokes handily too.
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On February 05 2014 08:45 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 08:22 Smurfett3 wrote:On February 05 2014 08:01 Fhiz wrote:
SCV scouting really helps to identify a proxy oracle before it is too late as well ^^ a reaper going beeline into the protoss base makes can spot 2 pylons (one missing coz its a proxy oracle) and lack of either msc, warpgate, or stalker and you can put a eng bay + turret up in time. If you're playing vs the style where Protoss proxies their second pylon for the stargate however, unless your build incorporates an engineering bay or you delay your first rax / fact until after you scout this timing in case of it you wont be able to get eng bay + turret in time. Not to mention they could also be proxying a Twilight or Robo instead, in which case 225 / 325 minerals and delayed production can make a pretty big difference in holding off blink / dt / immortal all-ins. The SCV scout would let you know there's a proxy and get your reaper out on the map searching for proxies immediately rather than going to your opponent's base for the information first.
if it is a robo or twighlight, then there will be 1 pylon missing but a stalker and msc and warpgate going. And you will be delaying either your 2nd rax or fac to squeeze out an eng + turret in time. You have to remember proxying an oracle is extremely all-in and needs to do damage and in this case, using 225 minerals to mitigate losses will still put you ahead
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is there any safe 15 gas raven expand in TvT ? Or does it have to be gas first into 1-1-1 into raven the best way? I feel that taking a 15 gas does horribly vs any kind of early pressure, I just really want some sort of safe build where I dont lose if i dont have a scan ready when my opponent decides he is ready to send his banshee in, thanks.
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On February 05 2014 12:09 Fhiz wrote:
is there any safe 15 gas raven expand in TvT ? Or does it have to be gas first into 1-1-1 into raven the best way? I feel that taking a 15 gas does horribly vs any kind of early pressure, I just really want some sort of safe build where I dont lose if i dont have a scan ready when my opponent decides he is ready to send his banshee in, thanks.
I've been working on two 15 gas builds
1) Single tank, vike defense:
standard 15 gas expo into reactor rax tech labbed factory (single widowmine before techlab)
with an ebay at 5:45 if gas first scouted
This is a safe way to get a fast expo vs a fast tech-er, you have one widow mine, a turret and a bunch of marines for the banshee and fast hellion drops. and a single tank by the time any tank pushes hit.
Once all your mineral spending is done: ebay started, depots made ect... start 2nd gas and then a starport. Starport is as soon as you have the gas, which can only really be done with the second gas or significantly after the tank on one gas.
The faster the second gas the faster the starport. you can start as fast as 50% on factory BUT you will have to sacrifice something for cloak banshees (ebay, scans, rines, or delay the tank) so its up to you.
Mech transition: swap the factory onto rax for hellion production and the starport onto the TL for a raven (after a at least one viking)
Bio: TL on rax yadda yadda
money for a 3rd CC should come right about the time of the addon switching. or just make more units buildings...
2) Basically the good ole forgg build with a 5:45 ebay. sacrifice two marines to get out ebay and turret on time.
15 gas expo, reactor 6ish rines
a single widowmine
fast starport with with either viking then medivac, or medivac then viking
ebay at 5:45 turret in the main mineral line.
Tank pushes are dam hard to hold but doable if you never stop making hellions, and transition to tanks and blue flame eventually
GL
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Russian Federation125 Posts
So any good strats with new ghosts?
stim push with 1 ghost doesn't work because it is -2 marauders and chance to emp msc before PO is very law.
Thinking about 2-4 medivac push with preemptive ghost drop and emp in MSC.
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On February 05 2014 12:09 Fhiz wrote:
is there any safe 15 gas raven expand in TvT ? Or does it have to be gas first into 1-1-1 into raven the best way? I feel that taking a 15 gas does horribly vs any kind of early pressure, I just really want some sort of safe build where I dont lose if i dont have a scan ready when my opponent decides he is ready to send his banshee in, thanks.
MARU's one can fit to your expectations
10 – Supply Depot
12 – Barracks
15 – Refinery
16 – Marine (up to 2)
17 – Orbital Command
17 – Supply Depot
19 – @100% 2nd Marine, start Reactor on Barracks
20 – @400 Mins, start 2nd Command Center
21 – @100 Gas, start Factory
@100% Reactor, start constant Marine production and 2nd Refinery
@100% 3rd/4th Marines, start 3rd Supply Depot
@100% Factory, start Starport and Tech lab on Factory
@100% Starport, swap off onto Tech lab
If you have suspect your opponent has opened with a Banshee, start a Raven and a Widow Mine.
If your opponent is NOT opening Banshee, then you can start delayed Cloaked Banshee OR Siege Tank production of your own instead.
Benchmark: When your Raven pops (@7:15ish), you should have 30 SCVs, 12 Marines, 1 Widow Mine, and 1 Raven
source : http://imbabuilds.com/hots-terran/hots-tvt/tvt-marus-anti-banshee-expand/
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as a meching terran in TvZ..
Lately i saw that some pro players (Ryung, Cure, Flash etc) go with their starport after a banshee opening non stop double viking or non stop banshees?
When should i prefer which one?
thx
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I would take it easy on the starport production and get a good 3base mech infrastructure in tvz mech after a banshee opening... otherwise, banshees if you know they can do damage, or they go roach/bling all in. Later start massing vikings and ravens for the ultimate lategame airball.
Talking from a viewer perspective though.
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On February 05 2014 17:34 dargul wrote:
So any good strats with new ghosts?
stim push with 1 ghost doesn't work because it is -2 marauders and chance to emp msc before PO is very law.
Thinking about 2-4 medivac push with preemptive ghost drop and emp in MSC.
I expect the 5rax 3ghost scv pull allin will be stronger, you will h ave an emp + couple snipes per ghost by the time they reach the protoss rather then just an emp's worth of energy.
On February 05 2014 20:24 saaaa wrote:
as a meching terran in TvZ..
Lately i saw that some pro players (Ryung, Cure, Flash etc) go with their starport after a banshee opening non stop double viking or non stop banshees?
When should i prefer which one?
thx
Most likely vikings for vs muta play and banshees for vs non-muta play. ALthough I haven't watched the vods, I'm sure that if they chose to m ake nons stop banshees 4+, they scout the zerg enough to know when to transition into vikings.
ALl the vikings are needed for is to stop mutalisks, vipers, or corruptors
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On February 05 2014 20:24 saaaa wrote:
as a meching terran in TvZ..
Lately i saw that some pro players (Ryung, Cure, Flash etc) go with their starport after a banshee opening non stop double viking or non stop banshees?
When should i prefer which one?
thx
IMO early constant vikings are a must unless you can absolutely confirm heavy roach hydra. Vikings make dealing with mutas so much easier, they discourage the full broodlord corrupter rush, discourage vipers, and allow you protect your ravens or banshees that you need to start adding in. The first round of mutas can be held off very easily with 1 thor, 2 vikes, and a single missle turret in each mineral line and a few extra by production. If you want to play for tank hellbat thor viking raven composition.
Also making vikings instead of thors allows you to build up a tank count against swarmhosts and or roach hydra while vikings, few ravens and thors deal with muta.
Tanks to control the ground vikes for the air.
Ultras are the best counter to this, but they come a bit later and are pretty easy to react to imo, since almost every factory unit is good against them.
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EPT
