|
Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. |
On February 03 2014 13:48 Clarty wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2014 11:18 Smurfett3 wrote:On February 03 2014 10:18 Aquila- wrote:
What are you guys thoughts on CC first in TvP? I feel like reaper into reactor delays the CC so much and is not particular safe vs proxy oracles or msc rushes. 1 rax gasless adds the next 2 baracks too late to deal with that too. With CC first you get 2 early rax and by the time an oracle comes you can have 5 marines. Isnt it in theory the best and even safest TvP build? Even on maps like Yeonsu and Habitation station, what about going inbase CC first and only lift it after confirming there is no cheese coming? The only problem I can see is a very early chronoboosted Zealot followed by Stalkers and msc, but with pulling scvs and a bunker it should be holdable, and after that he should be way behind with his expo. i only cc on 4 player maps. If a protoss chronos out a couple units to harass vs cc first (inbase) you will lose scvs and be slightly behind but if it is on the low ground you die instantly That's not true, I always CC first and unless toss went 10 gate you can always hold vs chronoboosted gate pressure on low ground. Main problem with CC first I find is that its very difficult to scout, I die to a lot of 1/2 base shenanigans because without a reaper there is no sure way of checking their main.
True, but CC-first automatically wards against some builds. 4-gates of most varieties are not good versus CC-first, and even 1-base blink is worse against CC-first than Reaper expand if you identify it (a generally easy scout = lots of Stalkers + no expo) due to mineral excess. Stargate can be problematic but, as Aquila pointed out, with correct play can be held.
I find 'not panicking' to be the key determining factor in succeeding with CC-first. If you panic and overreact, you lose. Play calmly and with smart control and you are set up fantastically.
|
Hello,
I heard that 1 rax (gasless) FE is now "popular" in TvZ.
Why ? (compared to CC first for example)
Does anyone have a vod or a replay of one sucessfull game with this BO?
Thanks a million !
|
On February 03 2014 13:48 Clarty wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2014 11:18 Smurfett3 wrote:On February 03 2014 10:18 Aquila- wrote:
What are you guys thoughts on CC first in TvP? I feel like reaper into reactor delays the CC so much and is not particular safe vs proxy oracles or msc rushes. 1 rax gasless adds the next 2 baracks too late to deal with that too. With CC first you get 2 early rax and by the time an oracle comes you can have 5 marines. Isnt it in theory the best and even safest TvP build? Even on maps like Yeonsu and Habitation station, what about going inbase CC first and only lift it after confirming there is no cheese coming? The only problem I can see is a very early chronoboosted Zealot followed by Stalkers and msc, but with pulling scvs and a bunker it should be holdable, and after that he should be way behind with his expo. i only cc on 4 player maps. If a protoss chronos out a couple units to harass vs cc first (inbase) you will lose scvs and be slightly behind but if it is on the low ground you die instantly That's not true, I always CC first and unless toss went 10 gate you can always hold vs chronoboosted gate pressure on low ground. Main problem with CC first I find is that its very difficult to scout, I die to a lot of 1/2 base shenanigans because without a reaper there is no sure way of checking their main.
OH sorry i should have specified, I was talking about vs a 10 gate. But ya regular chronoboosted gate is easy to stop because you just get your bunker up before the 3rd rax and you are fine
On February 03 2014 21:06 Enoya wrote:
Hello,
I heard that 1 rax (gasless) FE is now "popular" in TvZ.
Why ? (compared to CC first for example)
Does anyone have a vod or a replay of one sucessfull game with this BO?
Thanks a million !
uh don't think so....I personally have seen forgg and several others, and I do it too, gasless FE on habitation station, but it's not popular in tvz by any means.
There are no replays or vods of successful games with it, cc first is better because it can hold vs early pool openings.
I guess the only reason I can think of going gasless FE is to do some overlord scout denying really early on
|
On February 03 2014 21:06 Enoya wrote:
Hello,
I heard that 1 rax (gasless) FE is now "popular" in TvZ.
Why ? (compared to CC first for example)
Does anyone have a vod or a replay of one sucessfull game with this BO?
Thanks a million !
There's no big difference between Rax FE and CC First, just a few SCV's.
The benefits of 1 Rax FE:
- Easy hold of any kind of early pool pressure (6pool too).
- Early marines can be used to hunt overlords (in current meta most Zerg players just send their first overlord to your ramp, expecting CC first or Reaper FE, free kill.)
- You can create an early wall off and make your enemy wonder if you took gas.
Benefit of CC first is cutting edge economy, it's also safe against early pools, 6 pool is a challenge though (doesn't matter if low or high ground.).
|
Hey Guys one quick question:
I had a break since march 2013 and I am now trying to get back into the game again. Are there any good terran replay packs with games from the last 1-2 months, so I can see what is played today ? I totally lost track of any build order and the maps are totally new, but I like them so far...
Would be nice if someone could help me out here
|
On February 04 2014 01:39 arkedos wrote:
Hey Guys one quick question:
I had a break since march 2013 and I am now trying to get back into the game again. Are there any good terran replay packs with games from the last 1-2 months, so I can see what is played today ? I totally lost track of any build order and the maps are totally new, but I like them so far...
Would be nice if someone could help me out here
http://sc2casts.com/event630-MLG-GameOn-Invitational
this tourney did have a replay pack as well (its less then a month old), but I can't seem to find the link to the replays, only the vods
|
Sry i wrote my post in french earlier, dunno why i did that
Hello everyone
Small question for TvP
When i go for Reaper Expand and Reactor Rax how do i deal with the MSC Zealot Stalker poke at the natural ... when the protoss attacks i have a bunker and maybe 2-4 marines with me which is not sufficient (he get around the bunker with the Stalkers while the Zealot tanks and then i'm done ... if i pull SCV's how many do i pull knowing that they have to travel from the main coz the natural is not finished yet)
Should I bring back my reaper ? if he dies while defending i have no clue whether the protoss is just poking me or is all'ining me coz i have no way to know if he expand behind it (when the reaper goes for scouting the natural is not up yet coz it's a bit delayed for the poke :/)
Thx for help
|
On February 04 2014 02:22 Daeneroc wrote:
Bonjour,
Petite question TvP
Quand je pars Reaper expand et Reactor sur Rax comment je gère le poke MSC Zealot Stalker x2 à la natural ... quand il arrive je peux avoir un bunker et entre 2 et 4 marines ce qui ne suffit pas (le poke coutourne le bunker qui tue le zealot et je suis HS ... Si je pull SCV combien j'en pull sachant qu'ils partent de la main puisque la natural n'est pas finie :/
Je dois ramener mon reaper ? sachant que si il meurt je n'ai plus aucune idée si c'est un poke ou un all'inish car quand mon reaper va scout le protoss qui part pour poke sa natural est légèrement delay
english is required, its in the rules.
|
is 1base viable? i kinda feel like i must expo within 16-20 supply or im behind no matter what.
|
On February 04 2014 05:24 NeuroGnar wrote:
is 1base viable? i kinda feel like i must expo within 16-20 supply or im behind no matter what.
One base all in (1-1-1 marines/tank/banshee + scv pull) can work if done well until you hit the diamond league i guess
One base late expand can be very strong but you have to deal damage if your opponent has gone a more economic build
- Gaz first banshee claok in TvT
- Bunker Rush in TvZ ...
|
Does anyone know the build that jjakji did at IEM? I think it was a Reaper expand into WM drop?
|
On February 04 2014 02:22 Daeneroc wrote:
Sry i wrote my post in french earlier, dunno why i did that
Hello everyone
Small question for TvP
When i go for Reaper Expand and Reactor Rax how do i deal with the MSC Zealot Stalker poke at the natural ... when the protoss attacks i have a bunker and maybe 2-4 marines with me which is not sufficient (he get around the bunker with the Stalkers while the Zealot tanks and then i'm done ... if i pull SCV's how many do i pull knowing that they have to travel from the main coz the natural is not finished yet)
Should I bring back my reaper ? if he dies while defending i have no clue whether the protoss is just poking me or is all'ining me coz i have no way to know if he expand behind it (when the reaper goes for scouting the natural is not up yet coz it's a bit delayed for the poke :/)
Thx for help
Ca ne me derange pas.  Mais pour les autres, je peux te repondre en anglais.
Basic tech is explained in the OP I believe, but it revolves around forcing the Zealot to delay with your Reaper. Keep pinging away at the Zealot while you get out those Reactored Marines behind it. Don't be afraid to pull 5-8 SCVs to tank for the other units and help in surrounding the ground units. If the Protoss doesn't kill 5+ workers, the investment will have been a poor one on his part, so you have to commit to stopping it. Immediate Bunker at the natural if you see the Zealot crossing early also helps big time as you can use it to force the Protoss into making some awkward engagement choices as to whether or not they'd rather take extra damage as they try to run past or just bother it and pick away at workers trying to repair.
|
On February 03 2014 13:48 Clarty wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2014 11:18 Smurfett3 wrote:On February 03 2014 10:18 Aquila- wrote:
What are you guys thoughts on CC first in TvP? I feel like reaper into reactor delays the CC so much and is not particular safe vs proxy oracles or msc rushes. 1 rax gasless adds the next 2 baracks too late to deal with that too. With CC first you get 2 early rax and by the time an oracle comes you can have 5 marines. Isnt it in theory the best and even safest TvP build? Even on maps like Yeonsu and Habitation station, what about going inbase CC first and only lift it after confirming there is no cheese coming? The only problem I can see is a very early chronoboosted Zealot followed by Stalkers and msc, but with pulling scvs and a bunker it should be holdable, and after that he should be way behind with his expo. i only cc on 4 player maps. If a protoss chronos out a couple units to harass vs cc first (inbase) you will lose scvs and be slightly behind but if it is on the low ground you die instantly That's not true, I always CC first and unless toss went 10 gate you can always hold vs chronoboosted gate pressure on low ground. Main problem with CC first I find is that its very difficult to scout, I die to a lot of 1/2 base shenanigans because without a reaper there is no sure way of checking their main.
I think one of the advantages of CC first is that you have such a good economy you can afford to do things like send out 2 scouting scvs (the 2nd one after your barracks get up, of course) to try to slip in when the stalker isn't guarding the front, and you can also commit more resources to potentially unnecessary defense without being too far behind.
|
On February 04 2014 06:04 Daeneroc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 05:24 NeuroGnar wrote:
is 1base viable? i kinda feel like i must expo within 16-20 supply or im behind no matter what. One base all in (1-1-1 marines/tank/banshee + scv pull) can work if done well until you hit the diamond league i guess One base late expand can be very strong but you have to deal damage if your opponent has gone a more economic build - Gaz first banshee claok in TvT - Bunker Rush in TvZ ...
whenever i ask people other builds i can do, they always tell me some "all in". i don't want to all in, nor do I want to FE. I just want to put pressure on my opponents within the first few minutes of the game, like I was able to in bw. if I play tvp, i feel that the msc will just wreck me if I don't have enough rines up in time which limits what build options I have. im trying to get into this game, but it just feels like there isn't much I can do, and also kinda feels like NR10 on all games. (no rush 10 minutes, usually because a lot of timing attacks occur within 8-10 minutes)
ive seen some tvz bunk rushes, but they always failed spectacularly and put the T way behind and then get steamrolled. the banshee thing sounds kinda alright.
maybe im just not cut out for sc2 lol
|
On February 04 2014 14:45 NeuroGnar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 06:04 Daeneroc wrote:On February 04 2014 05:24 NeuroGnar wrote:
is 1base viable? i kinda feel like i must expo within 16-20 supply or im behind no matter what. One base all in (1-1-1 marines/tank/banshee + scv pull) can work if done well until you hit the diamond league i guess One base late expand can be very strong but you have to deal damage if your opponent has gone a more economic build - Gaz first banshee claok in TvT - Bunker Rush in TvZ ... whenever i ask people other builds i can do, they always tell me some "all in". i don't want to all in, nor do I want to FE. I just want to put pressure on my opponents within the first few minutes of the game, like I was able to in bw. if I play tvp, i feel that the msc will just wreck me if I don't have enough rines up in time which limits what build options I have. im trying to get into this game, but it just feels like there isn't much I can do, and also kinda feels like NR10 on all games. (no rush 10 minutes, usually because a lot of timing attacks occur within 8-10 minutes) ive seen some tvz bunk rushes, but they always failed spectacularly and put the T way behind and then get steamrolled. the banshee thing sounds kinda alright. maybe im just not cut out for sc2 lol
You can always do a 1-1-1 with marine, hellion, medivac before expanding in TvP. This however must kill at least 10 probes or you are behind.
|
It's time to learn a new build, I've been doing 1 rax FE all matchups all maps and am starting to see it's weaknesses against certain builds (namely TvT early harass and timings). I am in Silver so a lot of the meta doesn't apply (it's chaos down there).
I'm going to learn a 12-12 Reaper, because I hate when my opponent does it.
Strategy and build orders aside, my question is about build order testers. What is the latest and greatest? I looked in the YABOT thread and the last reply is months old. I was thinking the new extension mod feature in 2.1 would be great for build order testers since they didn't have to be built for each map. What's the best way to learn builds quickly?
|
On February 04 2014 07:54 Jazzman88 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 02:22 Daeneroc wrote:
Sry i wrote my post in french earlier, dunno why i did that
Hello everyone
Small question for TvP
When i go for Reaper Expand and Reactor Rax how do i deal with the MSC Zealot Stalker poke at the natural ... when the protoss attacks i have a bunker and maybe 2-4 marines with me which is not sufficient (he get around the bunker with the Stalkers while the Zealot tanks and then i'm done ... if i pull SCV's how many do i pull knowing that they have to travel from the main coz the natural is not finished yet)
Should I bring back my reaper ? if he dies while defending i have no clue whether the protoss is just poking me or is all'ining me coz i have no way to know if he expand behind it (when the reaper goes for scouting the natural is not up yet coz it's a bit delayed for the poke :/)
Thx for help Ca ne me derange pas. Mais pour les autres, je peux te repondre en anglais. Basic tech is explained in the OP I believe, but it revolves around forcing the Zealot to delay with your Reaper. Keep pinging away at the Zealot while you get out those Reactored Marines behind it. Don't be afraid to pull 5-8 SCVs to tank for the other units and help in surrounding the ground units. If the Protoss doesn't kill 5+ workers, the investment will have been a poor one on his part, so you have to commit to stopping it. Immediate Bunker at the natural if you see the Zealot crossing early also helps big time as you can use it to force the Protoss into making some awkward engagement choices as to whether or not they'd rather take extra damage as they try to run past or just bother it and pick away at workers trying to repair.
Thx for the answer ... i did not know that he has to kill 5 SCV's to not fall behind ... i should pull out more SCV's then, as you said and keep my reaper scouting.
The main problem is that i am diamond and such micro (scv's tanking, marine kitting, reaper scouting) takes 100% of my focus and it delay so much my macro behind it (get 2nd gaz and stim, supplies etc) ... i feel like it's quite "apm free" opener for protoss and it mess up the terran so much at the diamond league lvl :/
On February 04 2014 20:44 DonkTV wrote:
It's time to learn a new build, I've been doing 1 rax FE all matchups all maps and am starting to see it's weaknesses against certain builds (namely TvT early harass and timings). I am in Silver so a lot of the meta doesn't apply (it's chaos down there).
I'm going to learn a 12-12 Reaper, because I hate when my opponent does it.
Strategy and build orders aside, my question is about build order testers. What is the latest and greatest? I looked in the YABOT thread and the last reply is months old. I was thinking the new extension mod feature in 2.1 would be great for build order testers since they didn't have to be built for each map. What's the best way to learn builds quickly?
12-12 Reaper means very little thing
You can 12-12 Reaper and cut gaz and get your fast Rax FE as in standard TvP
You can 12-12 Reaper and keep gazing and have your quite fast FE anyway as in standard TvZ
You can 12-12 Reaper and go for a 1-1-1 build with a later 2nd gaz and with a much delay expand
Going 12-12 Reaper at every match is good at low leagues lvl (i do it every time and i'm diamond, except for gaz first banshee in TvT). What changes is what you do after your 12-12 Reaper, depending on the match up.
|
Thanks Daeneroc, I just may open 12-12 Reaper every matchup based on your suggestion. However I just tried a few games vs AI and it's really hard. When I am harassing with my first and second reaper everything falls apart in my base. Minerals and gas pile up. I'll keep practicing, are there any build order testers available, I've used YABOT in the past but it doesn't work any more, having the build order in game and being able to quickly restart would be awesome.
|
On February 04 2014 21:59 DonkTV wrote:
Thanks Daeneroc, I just may open 12-12 Reaper every matchup based on your suggestion. However I just tried a few games vs AI and it's really hard. When I am harassing with my first and second reaper everything falls apart in my base. Minerals and gas pile up. I'll keep practicing, are there any build order testers available, I've used YABOT in the past but it doesn't work any more, having the build order in game and being able to quickly restart would be awesome.
At silver league i would not bother harrassing with the reaper. You have to focus on your macro (producing SCV's without interruption, do not supply block, adding Rax and producing army) ... it's not the reaper harrass that will make you progress, but your macro.
At first, use your reaper to scout only, and in the silver scout the essential (is there an expand ? is there gaz taken ? is there a roach bat or a tech starport ?). You get the info and then back your reaper in safe zone and scout again maybe 2 min later. That's it. Not attacking only scouting and focus on your macro
When you'll get used to it (gold league) then keep scouting continuely but don't harass yet. Keep your reaper alive.
Finally when you'll get in platine+ league you can keep trying killing one of two drone or so ... but that's not the goal for you (nor me in fact). Macro macro macro.
The reaper is a wonderful tool to get info, mainly to know if the opponent is going to aggro you or not. Harrassing like you can see in pro lvls is not for people like us, due to multitasking issues.
You won't always have 2 reapers. I got them vs zerg as i don't cut gas. I don't vs protoss as i cut gas at 100 in order to have a faster expand and a faster 2nd rax and then i put workers in gas again.
Mainly : Scout -> get your reaper safe -> macro macro macro
|
Is there a guide to scouting in TvP? I can't seem to figure out exactly what I should be looking for. I am caught off guard constantly, even if I'm able to gather key information. There always seems to be 2-3 different builds that look exactly the same, not to mention proxies, fake tech, and abnormal/uncommon builds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
