EPTThe HotS Terran Help Me Thread - Page 245
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
On February 06 2014 03:46 Tenks wrote: I've been attempting, with terrible luck, to remove WM and add Hellbats out of my reactor Factory in TvZ. But, like clockwork, I just get absolutely murdered by a flood of speed lings and 12-14+ mutas in the mid game. The basic build I'm doing is CC first, 2 rax, 2 gas, Fact reactor, CC, 2x ebay. I then drop a ton of rax and armory. Get +1 vehicle for my Hellbats to deal with lings. But I still get completely and totally overwhelmed. It seemed like with mines I could just kite back into them to get some guaranteed damage but the Hellbats just get surrounded and die a gruesome death. Am I missing something about how to play this style? Replay if you want specific advice. In my experience if you want to play hellbats, both marauders and thors need to be mixed in, otherwise you have nothing to stop banelings. Also if you are dying before your 3rd really kicks in (your build is a bit greedy), just build 3 bunkers to zone out zerg as you take your third. Its not that big of an investemnt as you normally make one bunker at your third anyway. Just an option. | ||
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noSec
Brazil37 Posts
With the new patch is it possible to do something like an early "Marine, Ghost Stim timing push" ? Maybe revamp that 10 minutes push... | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On February 06 2014 03:46 Tenks wrote: I've been attempting, with terrible luck, to remove WM and add Hellbats out of my reactor Factory in TvZ. But, like clockwork, I just get absolutely murdered by a flood of speed lings and 12-14+ mutas in the mid game. The basic build I'm doing is CC first, 2 rax, 2 gas, Fact reactor, CC, 2x ebay. I then drop a ton of rax and armory. Get +1 vehicle for my Hellbats to deal with lings. But I still get completely and totally overwhelmed. It seemed like with mines I could just kite back into them to get some guaranteed damage but the Hellbats just get surrounded and die a gruesome death. Am I missing something about how to play this style? Your build isn't greedy enough to play passive 3 base vs 3.5 base zerg. if you wanna play passive 3 base terran you gotta do either reaper 3cc or cc rax gas fac cc. You're losing in midgame because you'er going into it at a disadvantage. Either open greedier or practice a more aggressive opener. I'm not well versed in current hellbat styles though, I've no idea what you're doing wrong with the units themselves or even if they're any good. The only hellbat build I've seen recently that really stuck out in my mind was Dream vs one of the Code A zergs (can't remember which) on Alterzim. He went 2 base blue flames into hellbat bio and it looked really damn cool. On February 06 2014 04:20 noSec wrote: Hey guys, With the new patch is it possible to do something like an early "Marine, Ghost Stim timing push" ? Maybe revamp that 10 minutes push... Probably not. 10 min push build orders are really tight and trying to add 150/50 (academy) and 400/200 (2 ghosts) would mean delaying all that for a minute or so. You might be able to do a CC first and get the 3 gases up faster and not have shields and maybe that's ok. Maybe. Don't know. Do know that even without mobius reactor, walking ghosts between bases gave just enough time for them to have a single emp anyway. This is why it was common to see players get 3 ghosts when doing scv all in, as soon as they were out it was scv pull time and they'd hvae the 3 ghosts necessary to remove the protoss sentries and/or storms (hopefully). Really the biggest advantage to the ghost change is dealing with aggressive 2 base protoss since the ghosts will pop with 75 energy which makes them immediately useful compared to their 50 energy forebears, and because of that getting ghosts as soon as you see twilight council might be a thing. If so it might put a lot of pressure onto protoss going storms to either get colossus faster or just deal with terrans going ghosts faster (probably) | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On February 06 2014 03:46 Tenks wrote: I've been attempting, with terrible luck, to remove WM and add Hellbats out of my reactor Factory in TvZ. But, like clockwork, I just get absolutely murdered by a flood of speed lings and 12-14+ mutas in the mid game. The basic build I'm doing is CC first, 2 rax, 2 gas, Fact reactor, CC, 2x ebay. I then drop a ton of rax and armory. Get +1 vehicle for my Hellbats to deal with lings. But I still get completely and totally overwhelmed. It seemed like with mines I could just kite back into them to get some guaranteed damage but the Hellbats just get surrounded and die a gruesome death. Am I missing something about how to play this style? I suggest you use this opener instead of what you are currently using http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=425617 It streamlines the basic idea of what you are trying to get out of your build, and then just add hellions and thors instead of making widow mines. You should still make a couple widow mines to accompany your army though otherwise banelings will completely overhwelhm you. The way you want the battle to go when you have hellbats and thors though, is you want the hellbats + thors to collide with, and soak up, the banelings so that your bio force can clean the rest up. And as doc bawler pointed out, having mauraders is also important as they help soak up the baneling hits when you split. On February 06 2014 04:20 noSec wrote: Hey guys, With the new patch is it possible to do something like an early "Marine, Ghost Stim timing push" ? Maybe revamp that 10 minutes push... The earliest marine ghost stim timing push (with scvs) is from 14-15 minutes, usually with 5 barracks and 1-1 completed and with an scv pull. The metagame has evolved so much from wings of liberty that you should no longer be able to end the game at the 10:30 timing push anymore because of photon overcharge. | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
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Aquila-
516 Posts
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
I've been attempting, with terrible luck, to remove WM and add Hellbats out of my reactor Factory in TvZ. But, like clockwork, I just get absolutely murdered by a flood of speed lings and 12-14+ mutas in the mid game. The basic build I'm doing is CC first, 2 rax, 2 gas, Fact reactor, CC, 2x ebay. I then drop a ton of rax and armory. Get +1 vehicle for my Hellbats to deal with lings. But I still get completely and totally overwhelmed. It seemed like with mines I could just kite back into them to get some guaranteed damage but the Hellbats just get surrounded and die a gruesome death. Am I missing something about how to play this style? Iaguz is Right you need to go greedier or you can open with Hellion Banshee but its vulnerable to Early Ling Bane busts as normal timing for this will be about the same time you have 2 hellions if you do the build correctly. Quantic.Yume has on his twitch archive a decent Hellion banshee build that I have used for awhile now with Exceptional success even against High Masters/ Low GM Zergs. Either That or go 3 cc reaper opening.. lol Also I've tested the Hellbats and I have to be honest watching ForGG play this asus rog taught me a CRAP TON. He doesn't auto start into the Hellbat style but he goes a switch into Hellbat Thor at about 16 mins when he takes his 4th otherwise he powers up and harasses with WM s producing 3 at a time and generally researching Drilling claws at about 11:30. You can look at this style on youtube under ASUS ROG ForGG either vs Jaedong or Snute he does the same build and looks unbelievably dominant against Zerg though which has a lot to do with how good his multi-tasking is but it shows the potential of that switch and how truly powerful Terran is against Zerg. | ||
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JoeCool
Germany2520 Posts
1) I go scout, P is taking first & second gas. => Probably Oracle => I was right, defended his Oracle attack successfully just to die to the follow-up. => Mass Stalker. 2) Protoss takes first & Second gas => This time some sort of 4 gate. => I´m building three bunkers to defend, but die horribly because he´s able to blink around (thanks to MSC!) and rapes my base. 3) Almost impossible to read (imo) Gateway, Cybernetics and one Stalker. Follow up => Again some sort of 4 gate. How do you react properly? I feel like I always have to prepare for 10 different forms of early agression ... and then all my money is gone.  | ||
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
On February 06 2014 06:05 Fhiz wrote: thanks i will try out those TvT builds I just tested the 15 gas Raven build. Its a really tight hold vs oh so common, one banshee into tank, rine, vike push. Its holdable but you might have to fight out of a contain. I personally like tanks vikes and turrets as opposed to raven, but thats because I suck at killing banshees.. gl and please post which build you think is best. I've been struggling to open with an expo vs one base | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
The Thing that sux the most about TvP in the early game is the Time Warp from the MSC..... How I have been able to defend so well against ESPECIALLY BLINK is to have 2 BUnkers at Nat and 1 Bunker in the main have 3-4 scvs at the bunkers at the Nat ready to repair and have the rest of your Army rallied in the main base. This is against 2 Base BLink openers. Now against 1 Base 4 Gate BLink which is EXTREMELY difficult to hold if you keep your CC in your nat. The thing is that the prtooss is essentially all in because he has sacrificed a Nat 7:45 in..... Which means if you defend and keep your CC you will be massively ahead. THough this build is seeming to be not as common because most ppl know how to defend it because of how popular it was at one time. Which you have to get 1-2 tanks in with 2-3 bunkers in good positioning and get stim and meds out ASAP if you scouted it at a weird time. If you scout it in good timing it actually helps to get Conc Shells as soon as you can. Because this is a fast research item you can start stim right after and defend well while teching ot meds. Now how to scout your opponent properly comes from your opening. You shoudl be opening with reaper and scouting with SCV and Reaper .. if not going reaper you need to scout with SCV at 2 timings. 2:45 seconds and then return to their Nat at 5:20 to make sure they took their nat. to understand what you scout. Refer to Jazzman's CC first "defending all-ins" its one of the best guides out there on how to read what your opponent is doing. | ||
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On February 06 2014 06:32 Aquila- wrote: Please, swarmhosts TvZ when going mech. Srsly this unit is so dumb, any advice what I can do other than making mass tanks and trying to get 20 ravens? I tried so much but zerg usually has mutas and spines everywhere, so I cant drop or do hellion runby, banshees get sniped, counterattacks didnt work. Even when its super lategame and I have raven viking tank, he has mass spores and just abducts ravens all the time until I run out of money. Do I need to attack instantly when seeing swarmhost, or turtle super hard, or leapfrog over the map? When? Or wait till ravens and then leapfrog? you have to leap frog with siege tanks + raven pdd to push back creep + spores and break the zerg static defense line. YOu should also have a handful of vikings as well, that will deter any abducts if you are on top of your army, but ya just gotta slowly pdd your way across the map till you can siege up in range of the spores and then that will push the zerg back. a PF also helps because you can constantly repair it, and with +2 building armor and hi sec tracking upgrades, siege tanks + a PF won't be broken and you won't lose units, just have to repair the pf. | ||
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Fhiz
361 Posts
Also how do i best follow this up when all is said and done, and both players are going marine tank. Also say i scout the protoss, 1 gate expand, into robo and it gets to the macro game (and he has a few colossi) when would they usually have storm by? (Taking a quicker third base) obviously depends on timings of templar archives but what is most commonly? | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
On February 06 2014 11:05 Tenks wrote: Iagaz, not 100% in the spirit of the thread but qxc did an AMA on reddit's allthingsterran subreddit that was really insightful and I feel helpful. Any way the noobie Terran community can convince you to do something similar? Love your stream hope to see it on a consistent basis. any way you can link the AMA? | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/AllThingsTerran/comments/1x0ax5/i_am_qxc_terran_progamer_for_complexity_and_rank/ (Again I apologize if this is breaking the rules of this thread) | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
Really though it's probably cuz I don't wanna spend time replying and up/downvoting shit when I already spend too much time on tl.net | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37108 Posts
On February 06 2014 11:45 ROOTiaguz wrote: I don't have a reddit account and refuse out of some sense of personal morality to ever get one. Reddit starcraft (and dota and hearthstone and a few others) can be a lot of fun to look at but I refuse to dip myself into that foetid pool. Really though it's probably cuz I don't wanna spend time replying and up/downvoting shit when I already spend too much time on tl.net Then just do an AMA on TL. Easy fix  | ||
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Jazzman88
Canada2228 Posts
On February 06 2014 11:45 ROOTiaguz wrote: I don't have a reddit account and refuse out of some sense of personal morality to ever get one. Reddit starcraft (and dota and hearthstone and a few others) can be a lot of fun to look at but I refuse to dip myself into that foetid pool. Really though it's probably cuz I don't wanna spend time replying and up/downvoting shit when I already spend too much time on tl.net MAD props for the correct usage and UK-style spelling of 'foetid', by the way. | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
I dunno if AMA's are something you should do on Teamliquid.net. I'll think about it I guess. | ||
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