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United States4883 Posts
Intro: I'm a diamond player who recently switched from terran to protoss, but I've been having a fair amount of success so far, especially in PvZ. While I know that this build is covered in Liquidipedia, my goal for this topic is to introduce newer players (and newer protoss players) with a concise guide on how to do a strong FFE with nexus first. I think if I continue to play protoss for the next few months, I will post more topics like these and slowly accumulate a compendium of PvZ knowledge rather comparable to Belial's "Guide To Everything ZvP".
Update: I spent a considerable amount of time playing 1-gate FE after the premier of this topic and left this topic by the wayside. I will try to update this guide and give it more depth, and hopefully all of it will be good with my updated understanding of protoss!
NOTE: This guide is based off of nexus first FFE. While forge first might be safer, nexus first is generally more economic and plenty safe if you follow the instructions in this guide. Understand also that there are infinite variations on walloffs and specific build orders; the walloffs and build orders provided in this guide are the accepted standard.
ALSO: Pictures and replays will be coming out soon. I'll make sure to post an update within the week.
Part 1: 17 nexus:
+ Show Spoiler + 17 nexus is generally considered the greediest build protoss can do against zerg. It is designed for the protoss to get a nexus at about the same time as a zerg player would get a hatchery. This early nexus allows 2 probes to be built at a time as well as double the amount of chronoboost, resulting in faster 2-base saturation.
The simple build order is:
9 pylon (probe scout)
Chrono x3 on probes
Probe to the natural at 300 minerals
17 nexus (finishes 4:20)
17 forge
17 pylon
*probe
18 gateway
*probe
19 cannon (finishes 4:27)
19 double gas (3:45)
*probe
(24 cybercore)
With pylon block:
9 pylon (probe scout)
Chrono x3 on probes
*pylon block*
Probe to natural at 300 minerals
17 nexus (finishes 4:30)
17 forge
*probe
18 gateway
*probe
19 double gas (3:45)
19 cannon (finishes 4:37)
*probe
20 pylon (because blocking pylon will die)
(24 cybercore)
You always want to aim at getting a 17 nexus, but based off of scouting information, this may not always be possible. When you scout, you can do a 17 nexus safely IF: 1) Your opponent goes for hatch first or 2) if your opponent goes for >14 pool. If your opponent goes for an early pool or gas first, you must immediately abort your plans for 17 nexus and instead go 15 nexus or 13 forge. In addition, if it's a 4-player map and you don't scout your opponent in the first 2 positions, you should not go 17 nexus.
Pylon blocking is a preference, but what I've found to work best is: build a pylon at the zerg's natural to block his hatch around 15-16 food and immediately go to the 3rd with your probe. Delay the drone at the 3rd by dancing your probe. While the pylon block will result in a slightly later nexus, this delays the zerg hatchery quite a bit as well as puts them in an odd situation where they can't connect creep between their natural to their 3rd well.
After pylon block: 17 nexus, 17 forge, resume probe production (build 2 probes), 18 gateway, and build a cannon when your forge finishes. Double gas on 19, then resume probe production.
A note on Cybercore timings: many FFE include a 22 core, but I include a 24 core in the build orders. While your cybercore timing really depends on your followup, it makes more sense to immediately start chronoboosting probes when your nexus finishes and continuing the idea of the economic advantage you gained with a 17 nexus. That being said, if you focus on immediately getting out probes, your cybercore will naturally be just a little later.
Part 2: 15 Nexus
+ Show Spoiler +15 nexus is a safer version of the 17 nexus. While your economy will take a little longer to jumpstart, you'll have a cannon up for moderately fast pressure while still gaining an economic edge.
Simple build order:
9 pylon (probe scout)
Chrono x2 on probes
Probe to natural at 300 minerals
15 nexus
15 forge
*probe
16 gateway
*probe
17 cannon
17 pylon
*probe
18 double gas
*probe
This build is primarily used on 4-player maps if you don't scout your opponent in the first 2 positions. On all 4-player maps, your probe scout will arrive at the second spawn location (crossmap) at 16 probes. If you don't scout your opponent, cancel the 16th probe and build a 15 nexus. This build can also be used on smaller 1v1 maps such as Ohana where your opponent can still do a ling runby with a 14 pool. It also handles well with builds that have a 11-13 pool as the cannon will be down in time. Note that your scouting probe should generally reach your opponent's base around 13 supply, so ANY pool down that early is an early pool.
Again, blocking the natural hatch with a pylon is preferable as it allows you to get down a comparatively fast nexus and forces zerg into a weird position. In addition, many times initial lings won't try runbys due to the pylon block and will instead kill the pylon for a faster natural hatch.
In the situation that you get hit with an early ling runby (10-14 pool runby), rewall with a gateway and/or a pylon or pull ~5 workers to hold position on your ramp until your cannon finishes up. Remember to watch your minimap! If you make an early pylon at the natural, you will have a chance to see the zerglings run by it, so make sure you're ready in time.
Part 3: 13 Forge *panic mode*
+ Show Spoiler +Against super early pools (6-10 pools), you should head into the zerg's base and immediately notice that there are quite a few larvae just sitting around. Upon further scouting, you'll also notice that a pool is halfway complete. If this is the case, completely abandon nexus first and try desperately to stay alive; cancel probe production, immediately build a forge at your natural, and pull your scouting worker back to the watchtower.
Simple Build Order:
9 pylon (probe scout)
13 forge (panic mode)
13 gateway
13 pylon
14 probe
14 cannon
(after initial defense, chrono zealot, make probes)
You will generally need to rewall or pull ~5 probes in order to delay the zerglings until cannon finishes. The goal here is to survive and allow as few zerglings into your base as possible. In the hands of a good player, 4 zerglings in your base will cause you an infinite amount of pain. After defending, get 1 zealot and your nexus at 19 food (17 workers + zealot). Scout the 3rd and get the gas count in the main with the zealot.
If your opponent follows up with gas, build 1-2 extra cannons and chrono out 3 sentries in preparation of a baneling bust or a roach bust.
Part 4: Walloffs on all maps in every starting position
Cloud Kingdom: + Show Spoiler +1:00 position 7:00 position ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iDUNM.png)
Part 5: Followups to FFE
+ Show Spoiler +The followups to FFE can be divided into 3 categories: 2-base all-in, 2-base pressure into a fast 3rd, or a really fast 3rd.
1) 2-Base All-Ins. These strategies have been refined through countless games and while most of them can be held by a zerg player with good scouting info and good timings, many times these strategies work, especially in lower leagues. Most of them hit between 8:00-10:00 in the period when zerg is still trying to achieve full drone saturation. Some of the 2-base all-ins include (I'll try to post some links later):
+1 6-gate
+2 blink stalker
sentry/immortal
4-gate warp prism
+1 4-gate + VR
+1 ultra fast 4-gate
Fast DTs (generally + warp prism)
(Open to any more suggestions)
2) 2-Base Pressure Into A Fast 3rd. While some strategies mentioned above really don't have a next step, a few of them can transition out of an all-in and into a fast 3rd behind pressure (i.e. +1 ultra fast 4-gate or fast DTs). Many stargate openings are also lumped into this category as well. The key behind these plays is to keep your opponent busy defending while spending extra minerals on a fast 3rd + cannons. This will allow you to macro up on 3 bases while defending until you reach a 3-base timing. The general timing for the 3rd expansion is ~9:00.
3) Really Fast 3rd Base. These strategies are characterized by an incredibly fast 3rd followed up by mild pressure to keep zerg at bay. Most are based off of reaching a critical mass of sentries early on and doing an early poke. In some cases, protoss can build a stargate after the 3rd nexus for 2 void rays in order to defend and gain map control. These early 3rd nexuses generally arrive between 6:30-8:30.
I am TOTALLY open for criticism and feedback! I want to make this the best guide that I can! Help me! <8!
Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
UPDATE 1.01: Added some information to the 17 nexus section. Pictures to come shortly!
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FFE I feel is something that has been covered in many, many guides in the past, so I'm not quite sure how useful this is, especially given the rather sparse information on followups.
One thing I'll note is that you group responses to early pools all in one (6-10 pools). If you try to forge/gateway/pylon/cannon at your natural then you will just die to a 6 pool. On some maps it's possible to defend 7-10 pools by walling at your natural (if you can make a gate-forge-gate complete wall-in) and delaying until your cannon completes, but generally speaking against a 6 pool you need to start a pylon in your main and build a cannon in your mineral line, and give up your pylon+forge at the natural. Not to mention the fact that you won't necessarily scout a 6pool in time if it's a 4 player map, I think defending early pools could use a lot more discussion.
That said, I think FFE is a topic that has been covered over and over again, and there are many detailed guides about follow-ups which go into way more depth with each follow-up strategy that you mention. So, I think posting a guide can be nice, but I'm not sure you're adding anything of value to the forums.
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^ Really? i havent seen any attempts to do a comprehensive FFE guide before.
But i feel like a lot of the information is kind of wrong, very bland and general.
- you don't cover all-ins at all. how to scout for them, how to react
- you dont really go much in-depth against 6 pools, and how to follow up. ie, you can make the forge in-base to be somewhat safer against early pools, how to do the 1-3 gate follow-up, etc.
- you dont really cover how to open... like how much you can get away with. you can go nexus, forge, gateway, 2nd pylon before cannon against a standard 14-15 pool if you sort of play it right (have a probe, on the right map, ready to make a double gate wall, making a pylon block to see if zerg runs to your base or to kill the pylon so you can be greedier, and if he does run to you, you should pylon block his third too.
- nothing on how to cannon rush. i think knowing how to a cannon rush properly is a HUGE part of standard FFE. Not to mention the 3 pylon ramp block, and how to follow up as toss when doing that (i suppose you cant do that on tourney maps... but still, how to cannon rush i think would be important, ie no overlord at third, or at nat for that matter, so you should cannon rush, where to rush on every map, etc).
- if toss opts to go for a pre 9:00 third off single gateway/core(6:00 to 9:00) before robo, that's perfectly safe as long as you scout no all-in from zerg. but going stargate and getting 2 void rays is incorrect, i feel. It's not unsafe, it's just incorrect imo. If you go 6:30 third as toss, you are going to need a robo. You might be able to do it with blink instead of robo, not sure. but nothing on how to do that here.
- you dont give build orders to any of the follow-ups, or reps on them. you might as well have written "gateway, fast third, stargate, robo, twiglight' as 'follow'ups'.
zero replays, so i imagien this will be closed.
Check out the guides I wrote:
You'll notice I cover literally every possible follow up, build, how to hold cheese, possible as Zerg. I write about how to respond about every possible thing toss can do early, mid, and late game, every type of opening and all-in, how to scout, tips, composition, micro, macro, control, and there's over 100 vods and replays in all of those guides combined of both myself on ladder, and pro vods (i try to get both a rep and vod of every possible scenario).
In my guides, I literally cover everything possible. Every pro player out there 'follows' my guides. Not in the sense that I know all about the game or anything, but that they are general, but specific enough to outline the flow of the game, and the confines of it. Ie i dont write the rules to chess, but everyone does certain openings and responses, and only those certain openings and response. if that makes sense.
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I might be wrong, but I thought all nex first builds died hard to an unscouted 6 pool?
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^If you go Nexus first without scouting, you sir are an idiot.
I agree that FFE haven't really been covered all that much, and thought this may not be useful to any descent Protoss for any newcommer as a [G][L] it will come in handy.
Just a few points thou
1.Replays please, or at least screenshots
2.Describe reaction to evoblock, or hatch-in-your-nat
3.6 pool reaction is kinda weird.
4.Should be written reactions to 7RR and BB
From what I know the reaction should be - Sac the forge, Pylon behind minerals, cannon, gateway, gas, core...
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Honestly the guide could have been a lot better, but the TL community needs more of this, we need more people to write guides that dont just outline some cheesy all-in or unique way to deal with a strategy but instead outline the very basic strategy the metagame is built around. Entering the game can be very difficult and the TL community should do everything it can to help our favorite lil bronze noobies out there.
But for feedback, please include how to stop allins, and 6 pool and all that fun stuff!
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On September 06 2012 14:19 Rimak wrote:
^If you go Nexus first without scouting, you sir are an idiot.
I agree that FFE haven't really been covered all that much, and thought this may not be useful to any descent Protoss for any newcommer as a [G][L] it will come in handy.
Just a few points thou
1.Replays please, or at least screenshots
2.Describe reaction to evoblock, or hatch-in-your-nat
3.6 pool reaction is kinda weird.
4.Should be written reactions to 7RR and BB
From what I know the reaction should be - Sac the forge, Pylon behind minerals, cannon, gateway, gas, core...
Or, balls of steel 
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On September 06 2012 14:19 Rimak wrote:
^If you go Nexus first without scouting, you sir are an idiot.
Oh come on, really? Of course I scout, but you can't always get to the Z in time to react.
OP gives a 13-forge reaction, while simultaneously stating that if Z spawns cross on a 4p map you get to him as your 16th probe is building. A 15/16 forge is very different to a 13 if the Z has 6-pooled when you get there. Hence, my understanding was that a lot of people prefer blind forge-before-nex.
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I am high-master/gm think a better Build Order for 17 nexus (Its my go-to pvz opening) is:
9 pylon (probe scout)
Chrono x3 on probes
Probe to the natural at 16 supply - just before 17th probe starts
17 nexus
17 forge
17 pylon
18 gateway
19 cannon - chrono boost immediately after cannon goes down, 19th probe should not have finished yet
* if you want to be greedy or if you just happen to scout that the zerg delayed lings to make faster queen or drones, then you can chrono boost before the cannon, and build the cannon on 20-21
19-22 probes
22 double gas
24-25 cybercore
then i usually get a zealot around 29 and another pylon around 30-32
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Ah, the ultimate sign that SC2John is now heart and soul a Protoss: the desire to write a Guide for other Protoss, :p
Good luck with the guide, dude. You will need replays asap, though. And don't take criticism too much to heart. 
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On September 06 2012 15:31 Belisarius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 14:19 Rimak wrote:
^If you go Nexus first without scouting, you sir are an idiot.
Oh come on, really? Of course I scout, but you can't always get to the Z in time to react. OP gives a 13-forge reaction, while simultaneously stating that if Z spawns cross on a 4p map you get to him as your 16th probe is building. A 15/16 forge is very different to a 13 if the Z has 6-pooled when you get there. Hence, my understanding was that a lot of people prefer blind forge-before-nex.
If you scout 9 on the 2 players map probe should get to zergs base @ 14 supply, pool should be ~50% (if i remember correctly)
If on 4 players map 9 scout fails, you should drop 14 forge and send a second probe, to be 100% safe.
I always go 17 Nexus against 14 pool on maps with narrow chokes (Cloud kingdom)
On maps with wide ramp I prefer 17 Forge 17 Nex. (Entombed walley)
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Love this guide! Actually been searching for a FFE with nexus first, and especially the earlier part of the game.
I currently like doing 15 Nexus, but 6Pool seems to throw me off. Can you address this a bit more? Perhaps with some replays/VODs?
Against a 6 pool i´m often in a situation where i have my nexus building, sending my scout(but their position results in a late scout for me), and i see the 6 lings come at me. At this point i basically have a nexus building and a pylon at my natural, and often a forge building at my natural. What do you guys do in such a situation?
I have tried placing my pylon in my main, as this will enable me to react better when spotting 6pool. But then my wall at my natural will be late/strange if the zerg does not use a 6 pool. What is the best pylon placement?
When i see the 6 lings my counter these days is to cancel my nexus, and using the money to block off my ramp into the main with pylons. And perhaps a pylon close to my nexus. Then i build a canon behind the wall, and hold. But lose my forge at my natural. This only work if it scout the lings soon enough to get my pylon wall up, and the canon building.
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While I do like the idea of a guide for FFE i personaly don't see why you would ever go 15 nexus, wouldn't it be better to just send a 9 scout, and if you don't scout opponent first send a 13 scout after dropping a forge. This way you will have the time to cansel the forge if, when you get to the opponents base, you find that is safe and then just do a 17 nexus. This is what I do anyway, but I am just a lowly dimond player.
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This thread, while lacking in some regards, still helped me with some basic information I will absolutely utilize in my PvZ. The guide may be missing alot of important things, but it still added to my arsenal and I look forward to updates!!
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United States4883 Posts
Thanks everyone for all your input! I will be posting some updates and going more in-depth into things. This was really a spur-of-the-moment type of thing, so I haven't written down everything I wanted to yet.
On September 06 2012 13:27 JDub wrote:
FFE I feel is something that has been covered in many, many guides in the past, so I'm not quite sure how useful this is, especially given the rather sparse information on followups.
One thing I'll note is that you group responses to early pools all in one (6-10 pools). If you try to forge/gateway/pylon/cannon at your natural then you will just die to a 6 pool. On some maps it's possible to defend 7-10 pools by walling at your natural (if you can make a gate-forge-gate complete wall-in) and delaying until your cannon completes, but generally speaking against a 6 pool you need to start a pylon in your main and build a cannon in your mineral line, and give up your pylon+forge at the natural. Not to mention the fact that you won't necessarily scout a 6pool in time if it's a 4 player map, I think defending early pools could use a lot more discussion.
That said, I think FFE is a topic that has been covered over and over again, and there are many detailed guides about follow-ups which go into way more depth with each follow-up strategy that you mention. So, I think posting a guide can be nice, but I'm not sure you're adding anything of value to the forums.
I couldn't find a comprehensive guide to FFE on TL which is why I was inspired to write a guide on how to properly FFE with nexus first. Also, as for your comment about defending a 6-pool with 13 forge, I have a replay defending it quite easily, I'll post it asap.
On September 06 2012 14:03 Belial88 wrote:
^ Really? i havent seen any attempts to do a comprehensive FFE guide before.
But i feel like a lot of the information is kind of wrong, very bland and general.
- you don't cover all-ins at all. how to scout for them, how to react
- you dont really go much in-depth against 6 pools, and how to follow up. ie, you can make the forge in-base to be somewhat safer against early pools, how to do the 1-3 gate follow-up, etc.
- you dont really cover how to open... like how much you can get away with. you can go nexus, forge, gateway, 2nd pylon before cannon against a standard 14-15 pool if you sort of play it right (have a probe, on the right map, ready to make a double gate wall, making a pylon block to see if zerg runs to your base or to kill the pylon so you can be greedier, and if he does run to you, you should pylon block his third too.
- nothing on how to cannon rush. i think knowing how to a cannon rush properly is a HUGE part of standard FFE. Not to mention the 3 pylon ramp block, and how to follow up as toss when doing that (i suppose you cant do that on tourney maps... but still, how to cannon rush i think would be important, ie no overlord at third, or at nat for that matter, so you should cannon rush, where to rush on every map, etc).
- if toss opts to go for a pre 9:00 third off single gateway/core(6:00 to 9:00) before robo, that's perfectly safe as long as you scout no all-in from zerg. but going stargate and getting 2 void rays is incorrect, i feel. It's not unsafe, it's just incorrect imo. If you go 6:30 third as toss, you are going to need a robo. You might be able to do it with blink instead of robo, not sure. but nothing on how to do that here.
- you dont give build orders to any of the follow-ups, or reps on them. you might as well have written "gateway, fast third, stargate, robo, twiglight' as 'follow'ups'.
zero replays, so i imagien this will be closed.
The purpose of this guide currently is to explain how to FFE properly with nexus first. I hope to be adding more in-depth information on this, but I don't plan on giving build orders and specific instructions on what to do AFTER FFE in this guide. Perhaps in the future I will accumulate more information and such and come out with something more long-winded and comprehensive, but for now this is just a guide to nexus first FFE.
On September 06 2012 18:35 budsoet wrote:
Love this guide! Actually been searching for a FFE with nexus first, and especially the earlier part of the game.
I currently like doing 15 Nexus, but 6Pool seems to throw me off. Can you address this a bit more? Perhaps with some replays/VODs?
Against a 6 pool i´m often in a situation where i have my nexus building, sending my scout(but their position results in a late scout for me), and i see the 6 lings come at me. At this point i basically have a nexus building and a pylon at my natural, and often a forge building at my natural. What do you guys do in such a situation?
I have tried placing my pylon in my main, as this will enable me to react better when spotting 6pool. But then my wall at my natural will be late/strange if the zerg does not use a 6 pool. What is the best pylon placement?
When i see the 6 lings my counter these days is to cancel my nexus, and using the money to block off my ramp into the main with pylons. And perhaps a pylon close to my nexus. Then i build a canon behind the wall, and hold. But lose my forge at my natural. This only work if it scout the lings soon enough to get my pylon wall up, and the canon building.
I will try to cover this more in-depth. 6-pools are more map dependent as to how effective they are. On Tal'darim, for instance, you really MUST go for 9 pylon in your main or forge first because the choke is so huge. However, on 4-player maps such as Antiga, because you have a ramp into your main and you can easily wall from that ramp to your nexus, you can stop 6-pools easily by pulling probes to hold position on your ramp.
I will get an update out this weekend! Thanks again for all of your input!
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Just rally 16th probe to natural, gets there at 400 mins almost every time. Also if your not doing any 4 gate pressure always put down the 2nd pylon before gate, no reason for a 3:30 gate if your planning to play the macro game. Also you can go nexus, forge, pylon, probe, gateway, cannon and still will have 150 mins for a cannon right when forge finishes. It's more economical as you keep probes in constant production longer
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On September 06 2012 14:03 Belial88 wrote:
^ Really? i havent seen any attempts to do a comprehensive FFE guide before.
On September 06 2012 20:59 SC2John wrote:
I couldn't find a comprehensive guide to FFE on TL which is why I was inspired to write a guide on how to properly FFE with nexus first. Also, as for your comment about defending a 6-pool with 13 forge, I have a replay defending it quite easily, I'll post it asap.
Okay, fair enough, there aren't any comprehensive guides on FFE with nexus first in PvZ. I guess what I meant is that in many PvZ guides, the author will be like "I prefer nexus first", and then somebody will leave a comment like "lol you will just lose to 6p", which then ends up adding a discussion in the comments about how the opening will change for early pools, and thus my feeling of FFE being discussed to death, even though there is a lack of a good comprehensive guide on it. All that said, I stand corrected, a guide like this is something that would be helpful for TL.
However, I don't think your guide as it is gives all that much more information about FFE than any good PvZ guide gives about FFE. Some things to think about / add more info about:
1) Building placement. A build order is all well and good, but building placement is one of the biggest aspects of FFE, and is highly map dependent. Should the nexus be part of the wall? What's the advantage of doing a full wall (e.g. gate-forge-cyber) instead of a wall with a hole (gate-forge-pylon with a zealot in the middle)? Where should you place your cannon on different maps?
2) Scouting. You talk a little bit about it, but since this is trying to be a comprehensive guide, I think you need much more. For example, what time in game time do 6-14 pools go down, and how can you tell from the amount of hp they have what pool timing the Zerg went for (or can you count drones instead to figure this out?). You lump 6-10 pools together and 11-13 pools together, but I think each pool timing is different and may require a slightly altered response depending on the map as well. Also, do you send a second probe scout to see the third base? Should one hide the initial probe before lings come out?
3) Early pool defense. I just don't believe you that you can hold a 13 forge wall-in at your natural against a 6pool. I'd be curious to know what the exact timings are, but I think there's a reason why the general consensus is that one must drop a pylon in the main and build a cannon in your mineral line (this is what all pro players do). I also don't believe that 15 nexus / 15 forge can prevent a ling run-by of an 11 or 12 pool. I've played around a fair amount with 12 pooling in ZvP with a drone scout, and often times my opponent will confuse the 12 pool with a 14 pool, and pylon block me and 15 nexus, after which my scouting drone builds a hatchery at their natural ramp, which I cancel to allow my first 6 lings in. Also, as others have mentioned, you can't reactively forge first on 4 player maps if you don't scout them first, so you either have to drop a forge at 13 after not scouting them first, or roll the dice and hope they aren't 6 pooling you.
4) Reacting to weird stuff. What happens when Zerg decides to build a hatchery at your natural, and you're sitting at 17 supply with 400 minerals and a pylon? If you start a forge immediately how many cannons do you need to kill the hatch before it completes? Should you pull probes to attack it? If so, how many?
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Guide flaws aside (and I am not harping you OP, I appreciate the post), I'm not sure you could make a 'reacting to wierd stuff' portion of an FFE guide. Different 'weridstuffs' can have such a variety of reactions that falling into a rigid "pull 4 probes and move cancel your gateway" can be unhelpful. Too many variables in wierdstuffs. Better to teach good principles on dealing with generalities IE knowing what you have and what you can do with what you have, than to prescribe a method of dealing with something you havnt seen before (also would make guide unnecessairily long).
And yes, a 6 pool is truly in a category of its own. I would as the other said recommend making seperate distinctions between the pool timings. They can have very different reactions, and sometimes the FFE just goes out the window.
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very good helps me alot. but can you put in game timings such as when a 14 pool should be put down etc...? that will help me a lot
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Okay, fair enough, there aren't any comprehensive guides on FFE with nexus first in PvZ. I guess what I meant is that in many PvZ guides, the author will be like "I prefer nexus first", and then somebody will leave a comment like "lol you will just lose to 6p", which then ends up adding a discussion in the comments about how the opening will change for early pools, and thus my feeling of FFE being discussed to death, even though there is a lack of a good comprehensive guide on it. All that said, I stand corrected, a guide like this is something that would be helpful for TL.
However, I don't think your guide as it is gives all that much more information about FFE than any good PvZ guide gives about FFE. Some things to think about / add more info about:
yea i think i've seen guides that were much more comprehensive, and they were only about doing a specific build.
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I know most pros do 17 nexus like in this build but y not 18?
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rofl. dat bump.
it delays your nexus and subsequently your forge/cannon by about ~10 seconds. which is enough for lings from a standard 14 pool cause quite a bit of damage, especially ohana where the rush distance is pretty short
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17 nexus is actually not the greediest build... Sometimes you can go 17 pylon --> 19 nexus if you see a zerg player going for 15 hatch.
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United States4883 Posts
...Thanks for bumping this, guys. I will try to get more information on this shortly. Unfortunately, when I first wrote this, I started doing only 1-gate FEs in PvZ hahaha. I will try to do some updates this week and add sim city pictures (might take from pro games, not my own).
On November 04 2012 06:51 ian952 wrote:
17 nexus is actually not the greediest build... Sometimes you can go 17 pylon --> 19 nexus if you see a zerg player going for 15 hatch.
I'm curious how that works. The main reason for 17 nexus is that you have 16 probes on minerals, which is optimal mining. By going 19 nexus, you have potentially more probes than you actually need at that point. In addition, you delay your nexus by about 30 seconds, which is equivalent to a chronoboost.
In theory, a 19 nexus sounds kind of bad, but I could be wrong.
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EPT
