EPT[G] ZvP: Defeating the Sentry/Immortal All-in - Page 21
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Ewok
United States26 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Not to mention that it definitely wont' be done in time. If you sacrifice roach speed, you might have it during mid-battle but the game should be decided already. It's underused for a reason. IMO Toss shouldn't even bother getting an observer, I always see them get it but if zerg goes burrow you wouldn't have to worry as Toss, and you just rally it out anyways if you do get one. So has this been figured out yet, or is this thread just someone bringing up hydras/banelingbombs/burrow/infestors every other page like someone already has and shot down? I recall seeing a pro zerg hold it using roach/ling on daybreak (bad choice of map, bad ff) but it was still very cool. | ||
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Falcon-sw
United States324 Posts
1. Protoss finds an amazing build that rapes Zergs constantly for weeks. 2. Some Zerg player figures it out and puts out a build Zerg has to follow perfectly, while scouting perfectly, to hold it off. 3. Protoss finds ANOTHER amazing build that rapes Zergs for weeks. Repeat. This matchup is brutal. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls5/vod/71013/?set=10&lang= | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
can someone tell me what happens in that game? | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On December 12 2012 04:44 Mavvie wrote: Paywall :Q can someone tell me what happens in that game? He basically defends exactly like you do, lol. Roach/ling defense, mobs Parting with lings as he moves out, focus-fires sentries, etc. Personally I think Parting was slightly off this game compared to his normal self, but Sniper played it beautifully. | ||
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
If you manage to snipe the Warp Prism going Ling/Muta it's basically gg so oftentimes I'll keep my mutas at home and delay my harass for any opportunity to snipe the Prism. At that point they'll either try to run home and you can surround with ling/muta, they'll try to dive into your spines which is an insta-loss, or they'll try to bring a probe to plant a proxy pylon which delays the push even further. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls5/vod/71059/?set=2&lang= | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On December 12 2012 05:36 larse wrote: This is Wongjin_sOs performed a 5 immortal/sentry all-in in 16:00 mark. Forgive my inexeperience, but this 5 immortal/sentry all-in looks quite new and powerful: http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls5/vod/71059/?set=2&lang= VOD isn't accessible, but I can't imagine a 16:00 timing being anywhere close to as powerful as the normal immo/sentry timing. By 16:00 Z can have done so many things and have nearly any unit comp except for mass BL/infestor; this includes muta harass, drop play, ultra/bane/ling, max'd roach/ling/hydra/infestor, etc., etc. | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On December 12 2012 06:07 Defenestrator wrote: VOD isn't accessible, but I can't imagine a 16:00 timing being anywhere close to as powerful as the normal immo/sentry timing. By 16:00 Z can have done so many things and have nearly any unit comp except for mass BL/infestor; this includes muta harass, drop play, ultra/bane/ling, max'd roach/ling/hydra/infestor, etc., etc. It was a 3 base pre-broodlord timing. whole different ballgame. On December 12 2012 04:27 larse wrote: Sniper's perfect defense of Parting's 3 immortal/sentry all-in: http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls5/vod/71013/?set=10&lang= His other "perfect" defense against Seed didn't go so well, unfortunately. I felt like Parting warping in at the pylon away from his army (using prism for micro isntead of pylon) hurt him a bit, but really sniper just handled it immaculately. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
Hyun vs OZ 1 Hyun vs OZ 2 Bischu vs Vibe CreatorPrime vs Life Oz vs TLO (TLO's drop!) Sniper's perfect defense of Parting's 3 immortal/sentry all-in: http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls5/vod/71013/?set=10&lang= | ||
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
I just wrote a guide designed to kill this nasty all-in. The build is from CyNStarbuck, currently #1 GM in Europe. It's a one-shot thing but I guess it could work on ladder and be used one time in a BOx. It's a muta rush with a spine wall at the nat and addition of mass queens to tank the immortal shots/transfuse each other. Mutas hit at 10:00. Would be cool to add it to the op. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On December 12 2012 05:36 larse wrote: This is Wongjin_sOs performed a 5 immortal/sentry all-in in 16:00 mark. Forgive my inexeperience, but this 5 immortal/sentry all-in looks quite new and powerful: http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls5/vod/71059/?set=2&lang= Its not new at all. This is actually pretty old and would've been "up-to-date" about 6+ months ago. Its a simple pre-BL timing push involving mass immo/sentry with a buttload of blink stalkers and +3 atk upgrades. Its actually not a good push anymore though with builds like HyuN's out there that can just attack a protoss relentlessly every second after 12:30. | ||
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Turbogangsta
Australia319 Posts
On December 12 2012 08:19 larse wrote: Here are a list of recent VODs in which the Zerg successfully defend the immortal/sentry all-ins: Oz vs TLO (TLO's drop!) + Show Spoiler + http://youtu.be/04Fz4XGYJrk This immortal sentry play also gets blink and the immortals are delayed by observers. Its not a good example of how drop play could stop an immortal sentry all in. | ||
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NonameAI
127 Posts
Joking aside, its a lot like beating marine tank timings. All you need is a good engagement with multiple attack angles. Dont even bother with roaches. Mass lings, make him waste forcefields, buy time, and snipe pylons. Just run around and get flanks. And if he forcefields, just build more lings to compensate for the trapped ones. Another way to do this (my personal favorite): get fast infestor, and force him to make forcefields. When he FFs, lob tooons of IT over his FF, and he will pull back. It wont kill him if hes smart enough to run (it will if he doesnt), and it allows you to easily regain ground, and push back his warpin place. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On December 12 2012 08:19 larse wrote: Here are a list of recent VODs in which the Zerg successfully defend the immortal/sentry all-ins: * youtube links here* Sniper's perfect defense of Parting's 3 immortal/sentry all-in: http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls5/vod/71013/?set=10&lang= as interesting as all of these are im sure, none of them are the immortal/sentry build we're talking about. with two exceptions i guess, the 2nd video (hyun vs oz 2)..except oz seemingly has only 2immortals there with sentries moving down his ramp..and he has them in some weird spread out line thats super easy to surround with lings and game ends immediately cus of that mistake. that's still interesting tho but it just sounds like an adjustment protosses need to start looking out for. tlo's build is neat but his opponent forgot warpgate..for so long that he didn't notice until warpgate would normally be finished and he tried to morph them to warpgates. so he had no warpgates when tlo dropped lol. oh and i dont have a gom sub so i cant see that sniper vs parting's 3 immortal sentry..im really curious as to the details as to how exactly parting lost..but it sounds like it could have been parting's mistake or not being prepared for early lings to attack as he moved out of his base with his only sentry/immortal army? maybe his units were kinda spread out in the open and then got surrounded? | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:11 Zelniq wrote: oh and i dont have a gom sub so i cant see that sniper vs parting's 3 immortal sentry..im really curious as to the details as to how exactly parting lost..but it sounds like it could have been parting's mistake or not being prepared for early lings to attack as he moved out of his base with his only sentry/immortal army? maybe his units were kinda spread out in the open and then got surrounded? Defenestrator said that he defended it with roach/ling, engaging right past Protoss's ramp, focusing sentries with the roaches and doing whatever he can with the lings (buffering mainly, and weakening sentries). Whenever I win with this it feels like Protoss's mistake, but it keeps working even against opponents who aren't half bad O.o Looks promising to me, no one's showed me a VOD where it didn't work  | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On December 12 2012 10:11 Zelniq wrote: as interesting as all of these are im sure, none of them are the immortal/sentry build we're talking about. with two exceptions i guess, the 2nd video (hyun vs oz 2)..except oz seemingly has only 2immortals there with sentries moving down his ramp..and he has them in some weird spread out line thats super easy to surround with lings and game ends immediately cus of that mistake. that's still interesting tho but it just sounds like an adjustment protosses need to start looking out for. tlo's build is neat but his opponent forgot warpgate..for so long that he didn't notice until warpgate would normally be finished and he tried to morph them to warpgates. so he had no warpgates when tlo dropped lol. oh and i dont have a gom sub so i cant see that sniper vs parting's 3 immortal sentry..im really curious as to the details as to how exactly parting lost..but it sounds like it could have been parting's mistake or not being prepared for early lings to attack as he moved out of his base with his only sentry/immortal army? maybe his units were kinda spread out in the open and then got surrounded? Sure. I am going to find a free VOD of that match for you. But what's the difference of those immortal/sentry all-ins and yours? EDIT: OK. Here is the VOD for Sniper vs Parting that you can watch: http://matchday.cc/final.php?id=11852 | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/ignproleague/b/347282109?t=79m01s | ||
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