EPThttp://drop.sc/289146
I honestly don't know what I should've done differently...apart from later roach warren, but it looked like he was going for 4g +1 D:
[G] ZvP: Defeating the Sentry/Immortal All-in - Page 27
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
http://drop.sc/289146 I honestly don't know what I should've done differently...apart from later roach warren, but it looked like he was going for 4g +1 D: | ||
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syriuszonito
Poland332 Posts
On December 30 2012 11:20 Mavvie wrote: Can you tell me what I did wrong in this game? http://drop.sc/289146 I honestly don't know what I should've done differently...apart from later roach warren, but it looked like he was going for 4g +1 D: Few mistakes I noticed 1. Your macro till 8 min was medicore 2. You overdroned a bit, there is no need to go for more than 60 drones if toss is stuck on 2 bases 3. Your macro hatchery should be a bit earlier (8 min) 4. All the time you were floating a lot of minerals, this is mainly because you overdroned (ofc injects could be better as well) but you could easily put down 10 spines when you saw him moving out, that would do the trick Also in this game you can see what is the problem with the pure lings to delay the immo all in. When fighting a good toss you will end up losing most of them for 3-4 ffs and buying yourself 10 secs, which is basically nothing. Once the toss gets to your third you are almost guaranteed to lose the fight there if he does not fuck up. Ah and when pulling drones to defend make sure they are in front of your roaches, they are supposed to tank dmg. | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
On December 30 2012 10:31 Vanadiel wrote: I just a small question, but the idea of getting a fast gas after taking the second base like 3'30-4', but only putting a single worker mining gas so you can still have a third base at ~ the same timing has ever been explored in ZvP? I see TSL zerg doing so in ZvT after Speedling research from time to times, protoss tend to do like the 2 at each gysers but I don't think i ever seen it in ZvP. Has it ever been tested? In theory, you could get Lair tech out in times with good management of the gas timing, and maybe starting with one worker, then switch to 2 worker... etc. I know this has a cost, but the question would be to know if the cost are 'acceptable' and still allow to take a early third? Sure, that was used even in ZvP with Nestea's muta build. I don't recommend it as the timing on this build (sentry/immortal) has changed since then. | ||
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Corrosive
Canada3741 Posts
It's risky to do because if you don't pay attention for a few seconds you can get all your shit forcefielded and just die but I feel like this is the correct option (excluding map specific counters AKA suppys mass spine crawler on antiga) | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On December 30 2012 11:20 Mavvie wrote: Can you tell me what I did wrong in this game? http://drop.sc/289146 I honestly don't know what I should've done differently...apart from later roach warren, but it looked like he was going for 4g +1 D: If he's going for 4g +1, you'd see constant chronos on his cyber core. Another problem was that you actually sent your first-sent overlord back across his natural and you even clicked on his robo, but didn't make the connection unless you thought he was going for the "sentries-loaded-into-the-warp-prism-and-then-he-ffs-the-ramp-and-keeps-warping-in-stuff-to-kill-your-main-build." in which case you should've just been prowling for a warp prism to move out. If you see no prism by 8:00, you're good to go assuming its an immortal/sentry something. As was already mentioned, the supply blocks from the lost overlord and the early roach warren really killed you. At the 7:20 mark, you were still stuck at 54/54 supply waiting on those ovies to pop. Basically your build opening kinda went wrong somewhere and it really cost you. If you hadn't made any mistakes, you should've had approximately 94-110 supply of which about 30-40 are speedlings (speed already done) could be touching the front of his forge/gate/pylon wall. His moveout was with way less sentries than he was supposed to. I mean look at timer mark 9:23. This guy's moveout was actually pretty close to on-time so he's pretty decent in timings, but look at what he has. 4 sentries, 3 immortals all exposed away from the wall and a super-out-of-position stalker down at the xel'naga tower. Can you imagine what 40 speedlings crashing into that would be like instead of those poor 6 leading lings who just arrived to be shot in the faces? Just tighten up your build and when you're looking at your overlord, you even saw a gas going down at 6:00 and a robo, make sure you actually process what you're seeing. That's pretty fast and just screams "SOUL TRAIN A-COMIN'!!!". | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
However, i still have some troubles against delayed immortal/sentry. When the guy doesnt go out at 9:00 but at 11:00, with a big army. I feel like my 200/200 ling roach isnt enough to hold, and then as i did only build army, i dont have any infestor. So, basically, what do you do in case of delayed immortal/sentry ? | ||
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Girondelle
France969 Posts
On January 10 2013 05:51 Insoleet wrote: sCCrooked, your build helped me a lot. I now manage to hold most of the immortal sentries all in. However, i still have some troubles against delayed immortal/sentry. When the guy doesnt go out at 9:00 but at 11:00, with a big army. I feel like my 200/200 ling roach isnt enough to hold, and then as i did only build army, i dont have any infestor. So, basically, what do you do in case of delayed immortal/sentry ? If you are maxed, stuck on roach ling, and his pushed has been delayed and you feel you don't have time to tech safely to infestors you should do in this order of priority : - get +1 carapace if you went +1 range attack first - get a second macro hatch - make spines His first attack should kill your army, but with the extra larvae you should be able to hold, remember by 18min his main will be mined out so you just have to hold and deny an eventual third | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On January 10 2013 06:19 Girondelle wrote: If you are maxed, stuck on roach ling, and his pushed has been delayed and you feel you don't have time to tech safely to infestors you should do in this order of priority : - get +1 carapace if you went +1 range attack first - get a second macro hatch - make spines His first attack should kill your army, but with the extra larvae you should be able to hold, remember by 18min his main will be mined out so you just have to hold and deny an eventual third Ok i'll try this idea next time i encouter this, thanks. | ||
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Mavvie
Canada923 Posts
Replay from the video against xSixPerfect: http://drop.sc/300943 thoughts? It seems alright, IMO the strength of ling/hydra/queen defense is being able to deny reinforcements. Speedlings (like sCCrooked outlined) can kill many probes/pylons, then the hydra/queen can snipe the warp prism and focus down the sentries/immortals. I'm playing around with a heavier-gas opener so that I can squeeze in +1 carapace in time...You don't have enough gas for roach/hydra, and you need lings to not die to zealots, so +1 carapace after speed+lair is worth it. I'll be experimenting around with it more, hopefully my ladder opponents do it a lot  | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
Nice part of the build is that it allows for to pressure the third very hard against an air opening and even against robot it's really strong, and then after reducing the AA count he goes for mutalisk which was deadly to Parting. But it's obviously weak to Gates all in and 2 bases collossi like Parting did on cloud Kingdom. | ||
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
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RParks42
United States77 Posts
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On February 24 2013 16:19 RParks42 wrote: The build Life did was basically designed to counter Parting, and most greedy Protosses for that matter, in every way, and I imagine it would beat most immortal pushes depending on positioning and one's own skill Yeah, I played with it quite a bit since and it's really really strong to be honest (except against gateway all in which you should be able to scout and some weird 2 base colosse), but since Parting never really tried to performed an immo sentry all in, I was curious what was the plan of Life and if he put spine and so on. The build of Life gives 15 hydra + ling at 9'40 to defend the first wave which is enough I guess. | ||
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