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[G] Zerg Sim City for Spire protection in ZvP - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 06:21:16
August 11 2012 06:18 GMT
#21
^ Yes, when Pro Zergs are on 6 bases, I typically see them bank at least 3k minerals. Also, you don't just make them right away - you make 100 drones, and then about a minute later you make your 'free' 30 spines. This is done by many pros in ZvP macro games, where Zerg will make 100 drones, 4th, hive, infestors, when Toss goes for the third, and then they'll lay down 30 spines so when the 3 base 3+ colossus push comes, it buys that critical ~30 seconds for those broodlords to pop. I think this has been the standard way to play ZvP, Stephano does it a lot and there was even a day9 daily about it (#429).

It's the same concept - make 100 drones, put down mass spines for 'free'. Only difference is instead of using to make a defensive spine wall to buy time, you use it to put down mass spines at expos. You can also, once your broodlords have popped, simply re-root those 30 spines you made for that pre-hive 3 base push, to the bases, since you aren't worried about a frontal attack once broodlords are out.

You just instantly saturate some far off base that would put you at 4+ mining bases, and then after a minute of mining, throw down the 30 spines there. Pros do it every game ZvP for the pre-hive timing, no reason not to do it in extreme lategame when the game is no longer about timings.

If I'm out of place here, then I'm wrong and I'm sorry, but this is how I view it. Obviously you are a much better player, but I do see pros bank money at extreme lategame, and I do see pros lose a hatch over and over to simple harass. Patrolling ~10 ling/bane or putting down a couple spines there I think would be well worth it, as opposed to losing the hatch over and over, that they KNOW is vulnerable to a drop and is the one thing that could cost them the game, and force them to move their sloooow hive tech army (or fast hive tech army, whatever) to protect a base instead of using it to apply pressure to the opponent and deal damage in some form. If 30 spines is too much, you could maybe go with ~5 spines, I don't think 500 minerals is too much to ask when on 6 bases, and just relying on reaction time and having those 5 spines just buy the time you need, or re-root the mass spine wall you made earlier.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
quirinus
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Croatia2489 Posts
August 11 2012 08:19 GMT
#22
Should try it by placing the spire at the border of the terrain, space/cliff, and wall the rest with buildings.
All candles lit within him, and there was purity. | First auto-promoted BW LP editor.
BounCy
Profile Joined November 2011
South Africa3 Posts
August 11 2012 10:00 GMT
#23
Nice guide and interesting read, will try this out more in games. Hate losing my greater spire, takes so long to rebuild!
StoHazzo
Profile Joined June 2012
Italy28 Posts
August 11 2012 10:46 GMT
#24
Old ?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290375
Like a rolling stone
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 13:09:30
August 11 2012 13:07 GMT
#25
This is a very cool, VERY good guide!
I'd give you 5 stars for this guide if I could! I will try this later

^_^


Rofl. I had a funny meta game thought If this became standard. You go for your early sim city for a 2 base muta timing. However, you just put a spore there instead and just take your third.
Spec
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Taiwan931 Posts
August 11 2012 13:53 GMT
#26
My take on the subject is to wall with the gas. It's invincible so you lose one entrance point. Then enough spine wall to buy time. I don't think it matters if 1 zealot is hitting it since the queen will be there anyways. Love your diagrams.
Eye for an eye make the world go blind - Gandhi
Nogard
Profile Joined July 2011
Italy40 Posts
August 11 2012 14:03 GMT
#27
On August 11 2012 19:46 StoHazzo wrote:
Old ?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290375



User was warned for this post
jimbob615
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Uruguay455 Posts
August 11 2012 14:56 GMT
#28
nice guide, just one question though... what if they warp in stalkers? o_O
nonsequitur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
384 Posts
August 11 2012 15:06 GMT
#29
On August 11 2012 23:56 jimbob615 wrote:
nice guide, just one question though... what if they warp in stalkers? o_O


Stalkers take forever to kill buildings so there should be no problem getting back in time to defend.
achristes
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Norway653 Posts
August 11 2012 17:11 GMT
#30
Stuff like this seems very obvious, but barely anyone does it :/
Good writeup.
youtube.com/spooderm4n | twitch.tv/spooderm4n | Random videos and games I feel like uploading
Zheryn
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden3653 Posts
August 11 2012 18:47 GMT
#31
On August 10 2012 18:38 Targe wrote:
I'm guessing you have to make a building AFTER greater spire is morphed because you can't get a drone inside the ring created by the structures?


Just drop it in with an overlord, ez!
hundred thousand krouner
Beelzebro
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom45 Posts
August 12 2012 00:38 GMT
#32
On August 11 2012 19:46 StoHazzo wrote:
Old ?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290375


Well this guide is better than the thread you linked to so meh.
"as full and bright as I am, this light is not my own and, a million light reflections... pass over me"
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
August 12 2012 05:17 GMT
#33
On August 11 2012 14:22 Scarlett` wrote:
Nice, simple guide. Definately gonna try to do this in ZvPs from now on (just been lazy about it ><)


Wow. You mean that Scarlett is gonna try this out?
From today on, my dream moment is seeing you hold a zealot/DT warp-in thanks to this wall-in. Not that I am the first nor only one who presented this idea, but still, I would feel so honored

Also, I'm glad to know that pros are still lazy :D in some fields, and a scrubby player like myself can offer something to the community as long as enough thought is given.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
August 13 2012 06:38 GMT
#34
If zergs start doing this I'm gonna have to actually use speed immortal drops to kill that spire >_<.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Probe1
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States17920 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 12:53:36
August 24 2012 12:53 GMT
#35
Just a question from your suggestions- Why would you build a second pool as part of the wall instead of 3 evo chambers when you're trying to safeguard against your pool being sniped? Surely if they show up and snipe your pool they'll stick around and kill the second one to get to your GS. Of course it buys time, but how much more time than a simple evo really. And if you lose your GS or an evo as well as your original pool, you could always remake it at the location to block in your new GS (as long as you weren't in dire need of immediate zerglings0
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
maracuja123
Profile Joined February 2012
Brazil419 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-24 13:15:15
August 24 2012 13:10 GMT
#36
I`m high master zerg and what I do (and always work) is put SPORES on the ground limits of my main base, so a warp prism can`t just get through and enter my base. Even if it does that it will have low hp and will die quite easily when trying to make zealots. There are some maps though where this is a lit bit harder and the warp prism can just get out of the way and warp in inside of the base, then I make a lot of spores close to the spire and in range of the other spores, gg, they cant warp in.

And this is a mineral waste only, not a single gas needed. If prottos can make 10 zealots (1k), plus the wp, to destroy my Greater spire, why can`t I use 10 drones to build 10 spores? I might waste a little bit more but it`s late game so I have bank already.

And with that I`ll defend my whole base actually.
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
August 24 2012 20:14 GMT
#37
On August 24 2012 21:53 Probe1 wrote:
Just a question from your suggestions- Why would you build a second pool as part of the wall instead of 3 evo chambers when you're trying to safeguard against your pool being sniped? Surely if they show up and snipe your pool they'll stick around and kill the second one to get to your GS. Of course it buys time, but how much more time than a simple evo really. And if you lose your GS or an evo as well as your original pool, you could always remake it at the location to block in your new GS (as long as you weren't in dire need of immediate zerglings0


As you pointed out, evo chamber should be the first choice.
If you are floating like 3000 mineral, then 2nd pool might be worth it. Otherwise, probably not.
Nowhere in the OP did I strongly recommend using 2nd pool as a part of the wall.

Unless you are planning to transition into ultra/baneling conposition after BL, you usually need no 3X3 building after spire. Therefore, you are forced to make 3X3 building just for the wall. I would say evo chamber is the best choice as it is the cheapest, but when you are rich, why not pool for extra health and insurance. When you look at the big picture, I think it is a trivial matter, though.

Logic.jake
Profile Joined October 2010
United States37 Posts
October 28 2012 08:14 GMT
#38
this is legit

User was warned for crap post
You cool man ?
jnd
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Czech Republic915 Posts
October 28 2012 17:37 GMT
#39
I don't know if you should include this here but the latest HotS patch changed things:

Spine Crawler
This unit now completely blocks pathing when placed next to other structures, including other Spine Crawlers.
Zerglings and other small units can no longer squeeze in between Spine Crawlers.
The scale of this unit has been increased from 0.85 to 0.95.


http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7004440896
Team 8 BaBy will be the next Terran Bonjwa in HoTS | HSC V, the best tournament in 2012 | GD Studio #1 no fluff esports show
niilzon
Profile Joined October 2010
Belgium105 Posts
October 29 2012 12:48 GMT
#40
Thanks Orek this is a sweet article that I will apply as soon as I'm back on BNet !! Very "professional" ("scientific") writing, this is appreciated
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