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^ Yes, when Pro Zergs are on 6 bases, I typically see them bank at least 3k minerals. Also, you don't just make them right away - you make 100 drones, and then about a minute later you make your 'free' 30 spines. This is done by many pros in ZvP macro games, where Zerg will make 100 drones, 4th, hive, infestors, when Toss goes for the third, and then they'll lay down 30 spines so when the 3 base 3+ colossus push comes, it buys that critical ~30 seconds for those broodlords to pop. I think this has been the standard way to play ZvP, Stephano does it a lot and there was even a day9 daily about it (#429).
It's the same concept - make 100 drones, put down mass spines for 'free'. Only difference is instead of using to make a defensive spine wall to buy time, you use it to put down mass spines at expos. You can also, once your broodlords have popped, simply re-root those 30 spines you made for that pre-hive 3 base push, to the bases, since you aren't worried about a frontal attack once broodlords are out.
You just instantly saturate some far off base that would put you at 4+ mining bases, and then after a minute of mining, throw down the 30 spines there. Pros do it every game ZvP for the pre-hive timing, no reason not to do it in extreme lategame when the game is no longer about timings.
If I'm out of place here, then I'm wrong and I'm sorry, but this is how I view it. Obviously you are a much better player, but I do see pros bank money at extreme lategame, and I do see pros lose a hatch over and over to simple harass. Patrolling ~10 ling/bane or putting down a couple spines there I think would be well worth it, as opposed to losing the hatch over and over, that they KNOW is vulnerable to a drop and is the one thing that could cost them the game, and force them to move their sloooow hive tech army (or fast hive tech army, whatever) to protect a base instead of using it to apply pressure to the opponent and deal damage in some form. If 30 spines is too much, you could maybe go with ~5 spines, I don't think 500 minerals is too much to ask when on 6 bases, and just relying on reaction time and having those 5 spines just buy the time you need, or re-root the mass spine wall you made earlier.
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Should try it by placing the spire at the border of the terrain, space/cliff, and wall the rest with buildings. 
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Nice guide and interesting read, will try this out more in games. Hate losing my greater spire, takes so long to rebuild!
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This is a very cool, VERY good guide!
I'd give you 5 stars for this guide if I could! I will try this later
^_^
Rofl. I had a funny meta game thought If this became standard. You go for your early sim city for a 2 base muta timing. However, you just put a spore there instead and just take your third.
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My take on the subject is to wall with the gas. It's invincible so you lose one entrance point. Then enough spine wall to buy time. I don't think it matters if 1 zealot is hitting it since the queen will be there anyways. Love your diagrams.
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User was warned for this post
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nice guide, just one question though... what if they warp in stalkers? o_O
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On August 11 2012 23:56 jimbob615 wrote:
nice guide, just one question though... what if they warp in stalkers? o_O
Stalkers take forever to kill buildings so there should be no problem getting back in time to defend.
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Stuff like this seems very obvious, but barely anyone does it :/
Good writeup.
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On August 10 2012 18:38 Targe wrote:
I'm guessing you have to make a building AFTER greater spire is morphed because you can't get a drone inside the ring created by the structures?
Just drop it in with an overlord, ez!
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Well this guide is better than the thread you linked to so meh.
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On August 11 2012 14:22 Scarlett` wrote:
Nice, simple guide. Definately gonna try to do this in ZvPs from now on (just been lazy about it ><)
Wow. You mean that Scarlett is gonna try this out?
From today on, my dream moment is seeing you hold a zealot/DT warp-in thanks to this wall-in. Not that I am the first nor only one who presented this idea, but still, I would feel so honored
Also, I'm glad to know that pros are still lazy :D in some fields, and a scrubby player like myself can offer something to the community as long as enough thought is given.
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United States7483 Posts
If zergs start doing this I'm gonna have to actually use speed immortal drops to kill that spire >_<.
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Just a question from your suggestions- Why would you build a second pool as part of the wall instead of 3 evo chambers when you're trying to safeguard against your pool being sniped? Surely if they show up and snipe your pool they'll stick around and kill the second one to get to your GS. Of course it buys time, but how much more time than a simple evo really. And if you lose your GS or an evo as well as your original pool, you could always remake it at the location to block in your new GS (as long as you weren't in dire need of immediate zerglings0
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I`m high master zerg and what I do (and always work) is put SPORES on the ground limits of my main base, so a warp prism can`t just get through and enter my base. Even if it does that it will have low hp and will die quite easily when trying to make zealots. There are some maps though where this is a lit bit harder and the warp prism can just get out of the way and warp in inside of the base, then I make a lot of spores close to the spire and in range of the other spores, gg, they cant warp in.
And this is a mineral waste only, not a single gas needed. If prottos can make 10 zealots (1k), plus the wp, to destroy my Greater spire, why can`t I use 10 drones to build 10 spores? I might waste a little bit more but it`s late game so I have bank already.
And with that I`ll defend my whole base actually.
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On August 24 2012 21:53 Probe1 wrote:
Just a question from your suggestions- Why would you build a second pool as part of the wall instead of 3 evo chambers when you're trying to safeguard against your pool being sniped? Surely if they show up and snipe your pool they'll stick around and kill the second one to get to your GS. Of course it buys time, but how much more time than a simple evo really. And if you lose your GS or an evo as well as your original pool, you could always remake it at the location to block in your new GS (as long as you weren't in dire need of immediate zerglings0
As you pointed out, evo chamber should be the first choice.
If you are floating like 3000 mineral, then 2nd pool might be worth it. Otherwise, probably not.
Nowhere in the OP did I strongly recommend using 2nd pool as a part of the wall.
Unless you are planning to transition into ultra/baneling conposition after BL, you usually need no 3X3 building after spire. Therefore, you are forced to make 3X3 building just for the wall. I would say evo chamber is the best choice as it is the cheapest, but when you are rich, why not pool for extra health and insurance. When you look at the big picture, I think it is a trivial matter, though.
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this is legit
User was warned for crap post
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I don't know if you should include this here but the latest HotS patch changed things:
Spine Crawler
This unit now completely blocks pathing when placed next to other structures, including other Spine Crawlers.
Zerglings and other small units can no longer squeeze in between Spine Crawlers.
The scale of this unit has been increased from 0.85 to 0.95.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7004440896
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Thanks Orek this is a sweet article that I will apply as soon as I'm back on BNet !! Very "professional" ("scientific") writing, this is appreciated
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EPT
