EPT[G] Winning With Ease - Page 9
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
iFoundWaldo
United States4 Posts
| ||
|
MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On August 22 2012 18:58 iFoundWaldo wrote: Thanks for the advice, MrLlama! A faster thor isn't something I've tried yet. I usually just end up with stimmed marines running all over the place which usually just leaves me disorganized and confused haha. Maybe a thor or two will allow me to keep my army together and push out! Yeah the big thing to think about is how much of an investment it is for the zerg to get those mutas, ESPECIALLY on 2 bases. So if he has 24 mutas or some high number, that's 2400/2400 for stuff that really doesn't add a whole lot to their army. With all the resources they used, you can get turrets in every base, a thor for each base, a couple thors for you army, and still have TONS of resources to spend elsewhere. Then when you push out with your marine tank medivac army and a couple of thors, he can't really get close to you with his mutas because marines + thors is just a deadly deadly combo. Edit: After a lot of testing with stuff, I think a video is actually going to be necessary because a lot of it will depend on your zerg opponent. | ||
|
MrLlama
United States454 Posts
It's a bit different than normal | ||
|
MrLlama
United States454 Posts
Defending against the 3 pylon block I think this one has MANY reactions that are possible, some of which are more macro oriented and some that depend on what your opponent does, but in the end I think the basics are covered. Do not overreact when he pylon blocks you. Just keep droning and never make lings | ||
|
AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
| ||
|
MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On August 24 2012 09:54 AdrianHealey wrote: I like your method, but isn't this still dependent on the protoss being retarded? Suppose he makes a relatively early zealot and just scouts with that; doesn't that mean insta lose (because you can't get up the second base.) how early are we talking? the base should be able to get up in time before a zealot can find it (considering after he cannons you, he is going to be cannoning your 3rd (if not then you have your 3rd up and can just use those gases), and then getting a nexus of his own, followed by a gateway, and zealot. If he does send the zealot later to scout and your base is already up, queens and drones will be able to hold it and then you'll just have to worry about throwing down spinecrawlers with the drones that would be mining minerals (make sure 6 stay on gas though). Like I said, the game gets really nuts there, but your hidden base will go up and be fine unless he scouts it with his probe and can get it cannonrushed before it finishes. http://drop.sc/242738 here is the replay. After checking it again, even if he would have made a zealot right when it finishes and sent it directly to my hatch, he wouldn't be able to kill it plus you have to remember he is going to be on 1-2 gates for most of the time that your base is running so you won't have to throw up too many spines | ||
|
iFoundWaldo
United States4 Posts
On August 23 2012 12:09 MrLlama wrote: Episode 13 is up, defending 2 base muta play in TvZ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMUtCVaeB6s It's a bit different than normal Thanks MrLlama! Theres definitely some good stuff there! I like the idea of sitting back as long as you know the zerg is also on 2 bases, and the reasoning you give. That tends to be one of my problems. I either am running around everywhere and forget entirely about leaving my base, or I leave when he's still on 2 base and get killed. I'll be trying that more. I really appreciate the help!!! | ||
|
imEnex
Canada500 Posts
So good and informative | ||
|
Ackers
Australia31 Posts
| ||
|
MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On August 24 2012 14:19 Ackers wrote: I for one am a little disappointed. I just finished game one and although you did justify why you wouldn't 'actually' be keeping yourself to 40apm I feel it was a cop out and your whole series is void. Talking about game one only, you would've lost comfortably if you had of kept yourself to 40apm. I may have been happy to accept you finishing at closer to 50 for variance sake but you nearly doubled your target APM which to me makes the whole series useless. There are so many other method guides for people to understand the ling bane zvz's (using game one as an example) that the only attraction to another one is if you could've stayed at a low APM. You really made it sound like you could play at a reasonably high level at a low APM and in game one you effectively dispproved your own theory. I will watch game two just in case you do manage to lower your APM but if it continues at almost double your targeted APM or worse I won't bother with the others. Game 1 was basically my test run so I was still getting used to bringing down my normal 180apm to under 40apm. the feedback wasn't very good in it either and I think it definitely improves as I move to game 2 and beyond. I'm going to be redoing game 1 I think pretty soon simply for that reason. In the later games I manage to stay much closer to 40. Some of them are under, others end up around 50-60, but I feel like 50-60 is acceptable considering my reasoning. I know it sounds like a cop out answer, but if you're going to have 3 bases of zerg going, the simple production of lings will spike your apm to absurd numbers. The reason I think game 2->beyond is acceptable (with the exception of 1 other one where my apm is a tad high) is because I start to explain my decisions a lot better. I talk about each action that I'm taking and why I'm taking it and it really shows how it's 40 DPM and that the APM isn't quite as important. I think game 1 fails to do this as well though, you're right. On a different note, new episode is up | ||
|
Ackers
Australia31 Posts
| ||
|
MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On August 24 2012 14:34 Ackers wrote: Yeah I just finished game two and even though it was a shorter game and therefore easier to finish with a reduced APM I felt like it was a very methodical approach to defending the 11/11 and extremely easy to see the majority of players being able to execute the actions without lightning hand speed. As you say your explanation of each thought process was so much better then game one I'm keen to finish the series once more. I just want to make it clear I recognise APM high or low will not make me a better player I simply liked the idea you had. After watching game two I will definitely be seeing the series out. Thanks for taking the time and effort putting this together you've done a great job and it can't be easy restricting yourself to a speed submaximal. thank you for giving it a chance  I went ahead and switched episode 1 with episode...5? I think. Your feedback has been extremely useful and I want others to come into the series thinking it's a lot more methodical and show each decision easily as opposed something like the ling/bling all in. if you have any other notes please let me know, I want to improve this series the best that I can and really it's people like you who make it what better. | ||
|
Natespank
Canada449 Posts
edit: your videos are great man, keep em up! | ||
|
EvE-1988
Germany26 Posts
| ||
|
MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On August 24 2012 16:02 EvE-1988 wrote: Yeah sure its easy to win with 40 APM or less IF u Zerg, ezpz, u need only to macro and push forward if u reach a good unit composition, u fucked up against drops cause u cant handle more than one side of the battlefield and your macro would go down if u get dropped you sound like you must be a masters player with all of the knowledge your spewing out. sarcasm aside, I'm doing all 3 races. On top of that, I will be having a video for defending drops later that shows how to defend them easily without losing much apm | ||
|
caznitch
Canada645 Posts
EDIT - thought I could make my point clearer: In watching Day9, he stresses always having a goal in mind when doing things in SC2. I'll take the TvT how to break a tank contain video as an example. If I were playing, my goal would be, say, attack with 100 supply of units at the 10 min mark after the 1rax FE. That goal obviously shifts when you see he is rushing to tanks and you explain this well (move out to the WT with your forces etc). The part I'm having trouble with is what does your goal change to when you see this? In the video you apply pressure and get a gg while making a 3rd - should that be the goal when seeing this - to end the game @ ~13 min mark but have a 3rd if that doesn't work? I'd like to see your thought process in how you plan on winning in these videos more. In the TvZ (dealing with mutas) was your goal with the attack @ ~10min to win the game to apply pressure and follow up? Obv. in the video the attack failed so I was wondering what your goal switched to seeing as he still had 3 bases. | ||
|
Salient
United States876 Posts
On August 21 2012 08:06 MrLlama wrote: Yeah I definitely think this is an important one to cover. I'll be popping it out sometime this week for ya Thanks for considering the video I suggested. It's a pretty complicated strategy. It would be amazing to see it work with relatively low APM. | ||
|
MrLlama
United States454 Posts
On August 25 2012 01:47 caznitch wrote: Really like the TvZ/TvT videos. If I may make a suggestion, it would help me if you paused a certain point or a couple points and went over your production buildings. In the TvT video, I couldn't quite make out when you got your factory or if you added additional barracks or anything like that. When did you make the decision to save for the 3rd. EDIT - thought I could make my point clearer: In watching Day9, he stresses always having a goal in mind when doing things in SC2. I'll take the TvT how to break a tank contain video as an example. If I were playing, my goal would be, say, attack with 100 supply of units at the 10 min mark after the 1rax FE. That goal obviously shifts when you see he is rushing to tanks and you explain this well (move out to the WT with your forces etc). The part I'm having trouble with is what does your goal change to when you see this? In the video you apply pressure and get a gg while making a 3rd - should that be the goal when seeing this - to end the game @ ~13 min mark but have a 3rd if that doesn't work? I'd like to see your thought process in how you plan on winning in these videos more. In the TvZ (dealing with mutas) was your goal with the attack @ ~10min to win the game to apply pressure and follow up? Obv. in the video the attack failed so I was wondering what your goal switched to seeing as he still had 3 bases. I love the feedback, thank you. I'll definitely start adding a little bit more of a goal. I think a lot of this series is focused around having to change your goals a bit based on what you see, but then defining what you do from there can be difficult I suppose so I'll go over that more. In the long run, I think the goal is when you're ahead, get further ahead. You do this through expansions, tech, and basic macro in general. The reason I don't realllllyyy do this is because I understand most timings pretty well as well as the games/videos would be WAYYY too long and get beyond the point of defending the main portion of it (otherwise I'm just showing long games over and over again). That being said, I'll address your concerns in the videos you asked about TvT - When I crush his army, I know that he does not have much army back home. This is because when I scanned I saw he had a command center going down as well so he was going to be transitioning into macroing up a bit more. Had I scanned and not seen a CC, I would've checked for an expansion after crushing his attack and if there still wasn't one then I'd have stayed more defensive and not pushed up the ramp (because 2 bases is greater than 1 base so all I have to do is stay a base ahead). With his expansion and my crushing of his army, I also decided to take a 3rd base because if for some reason my attack failed because of him getting some crazy good siege shots or something weird happening, I want to still maintain my lead and I could do that with macro. This is why I also had tanks and siege mode on the way because I didn't want to turn it into an all in, I really just wanted to deny his expansion while I got another of my own up so I could stay ahead and then get even in tech terms. (and be ahead in army, workers, and bases). TvZ - The goal of the 10 minute attack was to do some big damage and keep his mutas out of my base. It forces him to pull back instead of constantly building up bases while I'm contained and thus I could then establish a 3rd base as well as do some damage because mutas are weak. There are a couple of things to note with this video: 1. my attack was poorly positioned and I didn't focus fire the banelings so I cost myself an auto win at that point (if he doesn't break that contain I reinforce, and he falls severely behind while I get my 3rd up and running and everything. 2. I should've set my 3rd up sooner as I was pushing out. 3. I DID kill his 3rd, so the game was actually back to about even at that point. From there my goal was to continue upgrades, get my 3rd base established (should be easy considering he didn't have a TON of mutas), and then just take it into the next stage of the TvZ game. Nothing too crazy beyond that point and I know my attack wasn't amazing, but it did what it needed to do (deny the 3rd and pull back the mutas) so I felt it was good enough | ||
|
Garhf
49 Posts
| ||
|
caznitch
Canada645 Posts
And yes, you did kill the 3rd in the TvZ... I guess I have a terrible memory! | ||
| ||
