|
On July 12 2012 12:00 Crowned wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 11:51 101toss wrote:On July 12 2012 11:39 dynwar7 wrote:
Yeah I love how thors damage is so huge vs queens but....is this considered all in? I guess so since it brings what, 15-20 scvs?
I love the build but i dont really like doing allins... =/
Nice guide tho should help many terrans out there Do you like to lose? Seriously people, a win is a win, set aside these silly inhibitions when the build you are doing punishes greedy play That's assuming someone wants to all-in for the all mighty ladder points all day, instead of actually improving at the game. That said, after viewing the replays it does look like a pretty strong all-in and wouldn't be bad to keep in your arsenal and pull it out for fun sometimes or maybe in a best of 3 situation. Another nice guide brought to us by StimmedProbe, well done sir.
And you're assuming people are going to use the same TvZ build all day.
On another note, it's good to see that Terrans have 2base builds set up for specific punishing timings, much like PvZ 2base timings.
|
tried this out a few times yesterday. worked really well. one thing i added though is 2 more rax near the time i push out. i feel like you can overwhelm them better with the extra marines and it doesnt really hurt my econ or slow me down. also it could make your bfh bio follow up a lot faster if you already have 3 rax.
|
I've played the build a couple of times, and I have to say I really like it. Another thing great about it is it opens the same as the recommended build in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308972 which is also viable in the current TvZ meta-game, letting players switch between this build and that build very easily while going into Mech in both circumstances.
As the main difference that the Zerg can spot early on is the very early third gas, I imagine on many maps you can deny the scouting Overlord by being active with your first Marine and placing the Refinery on the geyser less likely to be seen by an Overlord, thus having a chance of making the Zerg react to a Cloaked Banshee that will never come and strengthen your push tremendously. You can also do things like sending out one Hellion with the other build order initially instead of both of them for scouting, making him think you're doing this push instead.
/Theory Craft
Edit: On July 13 2012 01:57 triforks wrote:
tried this out a few times yesterday. worked really well. one thing i added though is 2 more rax near the time i push out. i feel like you can overwhelm them better with the extra marines and it doesnt really hurt my econ or slow me down. also it could make your bfh bio follow up a lot faster if you already have 3 rax. Personally I like getting a third base and the fourth refinery ASAP and going into Mech. I guess you can probably go into Bio-Mech though, using Thor/Marine/Hellion, maybe?
Edit: Also ♥♥♥ StimmedProbe! 
|
does anyone have more reps that u guys transits this build into mech or anything lategame ?
thanks
|
On July 13 2012 05:37 foxj wrote:
does anyone have more reps that u guys transits this build into mech or anything lategame ?
thanks
take the barracks off the reactor put a factory there, bam you are meching lol.
edit: and thank you stimmed probe this is an awesome guide, im currently writing a guide to new age tvz going to include this build 100%
|
Long time lurker, first time poster.
Just created the account to say that this guide is awesome!
I'm diamond and this works fine for me and I even beat some master players with it.
I no longer need to sigh when I see that my opponent is Zerg
|
Decided to try this. First game I encounter the guy goes blind roach drop. I force him back after he kills 1 factory and killing his natural, but he had enough roaches to just completely kill all of the thors + marines with his roaches, even with mass repair and focus firing, and counter for a win. Attack hit within about 5-10 seconds of your push on your Antiga game(was the map it happened on), because I paused for a second before deciding to keep going with the push when he dropped me.
|
I lol'd a bit at the scenario with mutas. Great writeup; going to try this out sometime.
|
DUDE THIS IS ABSOLUTELY MIND BLOWING.
I love you stimmedprobe
|
How does this strategy deal with a counter attack that hits after you move out with your initial push, but before your push reaches the zerg base?? Do you just go for the base trade?
|
Have you come up with any kind of transition from this build?
If you cant kill the zerg, but still did some damage (like sniping his 3rd), whats your nex step?
Do u have econ to take a 3rd into mech?
|
On July 13 2012 15:32 SweKenZo wrote:
Have you come up with any kind of transition from this build?
If you cant kill the zerg, but still did some damage (like sniping his 3rd), whats your nex step?
Do u have econ to take a 3rd into mech? You absolutely have the economy to take a third and go mech. You just put another Factory onto the Reactor your Barracks is using, start a third, and you're meching! If your push is deflected but you don't lose it, you can also send the SCV's back to mine and you have a full economy again, plus you already have +1 armor started so you can get +2 ASAP!
|
Just played this vs. a high master zerg.
I guess zergs have seen this build enough to know it's coming, because all my thors got NP'ed  Tried to snipe the infestors but mass lings just tore my marines apart.
I'm thinking of getting just a few banshees to snipe infestors, going to test out some timings and report back.
|
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9).
|
On July 13 2012 16:41 y0su wrote:
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9).
Yep, gas saturation is as follows: first SCV = 100% gain, 2nd SCV = 100% gain, 3rd SCV = only 50% gain.
So 3 gas x 3 scvs each gives 750% gas gain, for a total of 9 scvs mining gas.
Whereas 4 gas x 2 scvs each gives 800% gas gain, for a total of only 8 scvs mining.
|
On July 13 2012 16:55 EngrishTeacher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 16:41 y0su wrote:
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9). Yep, gas saturation is as follows: first SCV = 100% gain, 2nd SCV = 100% gain, 3rd SCV = only 50% gain. So 3 gas x 3 scvs each gives 750% gas gain, for a total of 9 scvs mining gas. Whereas 4 gas x 2 scvs each gives 800% gas gain, for a total of only 8 scvs mining.
Actually it's map-dependant. On maps like Metalopolis where one of your main gas geysers is very far from your CC, it takes 4 SCV's for maximum saturation. I can see how this could work on maps with as-close-as-possible geysers, though.
|
On July 13 2012 12:40 Xingke wrote:
Decided to try this. First game I encounter the guy goes blind roach drop. I force him back after he kills 1 factory and killing his natural, but he had enough roaches to just completely kill all of the thors + marines with his roaches, even with mass repair and focus firing, and counter for a win. Attack hit within about 5-10 seconds of your push on your Antiga game(was the map it happened on), because I paused for a second before deciding to keep going with the push when he dropped me.
Now that you mention this, I have lost in the exact same way on the exact same map o.o I guess you gotta sniff it out with the hellion? It's a pretty rare build though so I guess just scout more, not much you can do once it starts.
On July 13 2012 15:15 TofuSurprise wrote:
How does this strategy deal with a counter attack that hits after you move out with your initial push, but before your push reaches the zerg base?? Do you just go for the base trade?
95% of the time I go for a base trade, you need to analyze the situation on a case by case basis. Terran comes out ahead in base trades normally, remember to send all your scvs up to your thors or use them to repair the 5th/6th thor that is about to pop out and you should be ok.
On July 13 2012 16:06 EngrishTeacher wrote:Just played this vs. a high master zerg. I guess zergs have seen this build enough to know it's coming, because all my thors got NP'ed Tried to snipe the infestors but mass lings just tore my marines apart. I'm thinking of getting just a few banshees to snipe infestors, going to test out some timings and report back.
Blind counter NP is just a silly build from zerg. 2 base infestor is a horrible build... but I guess it works well against this build. I'm sure after a few weeks when people arent trying this out a bunch that silly 2 base infestor build will go away.
On July 13 2012 16:41 y0su wrote:
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9).
Correct. Sometimes I do this but most of the time I don't bother. This is a slight improvement on the orginal build though.
|
It's a good strat but it loses to early infestors. My friend tried it on me a few times (High masters).
|
y0su July 13 2012 16:41. Posts 873 PM Profile Quote #
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9).
Does this also work against protoss? I feel like if Protoss goes for a few Immortals it will be pretty hard. Is there anything that should be changed in the build to make it better against protoss? Armor research might not be worth it?
|
On July 12 2012 12:00 Crowned wrote:
That's assuming someone wants to all-in for the all mighty ladder points all day, instead of actually improving at the game. That said, after viewing the replays it does look like a pretty strong all-in and wouldn't be bad to keep in your arsenal and pull it out for fun sometimes or maybe in a best of 3 situation. Another nice guide brought to us by StimmedProbe, well done sir. This makes the false assumption that learning to execute a build perfectly and optimizing unit control aren't "improving at the game". Learning this build and perfecting it just adds it (or a variation of it) to your arsenal for when you scout a zerg doing something in a future meta game.
I can not count the games I have won because of builds I practiced heavily before. Sometimes you see something, know exactly how to punish it, and decide to go for the throat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
