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StimmedProbe's Postpatch TvZ Build #2 4 Thor Rush
Last Update: July 12th, 2012
Build #2 of 3: 4 Thor Rush
Basic Idea:
This build opens with a very fast command center followed up by 3 gas and tech. SCVs and hellions scout for incoming heavy aggression or all-ins from the Zerg. The Terran pushes out a bit before 10 minutes with a dozen marines, 4 thors and 16 scvs. If the zerg cannot win the first battle, the thors snowball out of control. An extremely strong build scouted or unscouted. I have a 90%+ win rate at GM level as long as I am not sloppy with my scouting or micro.
Build Order:
10 - Supply Depot
12 - Barracks
15 - Orbital Command + Marine (Cut marine production till 2nd supply depot is finished)
16 - Command Center @ natural
16 - SCV + Mule
17 - Refinery x2
18 - SCV
18 - Supply Depot
21 - 3rd gas
21 - Factory (~4:30)
27 - Hellion
~30 - 2nd Factory
~30 - Armory (@100% armormy +1vehicle plating)
~32 - Tech lab on 1st factory (@100% tech lab -> lift and make another tech lab)
~32 - Reactor on Barracks
@60% armory -> add 1 or 2 supply depots depending on your supply situation
Pump SCVs/Marines/Thors/Depots
Push at 9:40 with 12 marines, 4 thors, 16 scvs + your faithful hellion!
Visual Build:
http://www.sc2planner.com/#TaaaaoEaaoFaaaoCjdoAoDfaoDaoEcacaoDoIajcafoCajanafjaaaoIoLoRaafoQoEoEaaoRaauMfrriZoEoEafaaiZroEoErfiZaaaaaafiZ
Scouting Zerg Aggression/All-ins
You have 4 marines for a long portion of the game and as such we need to be actively scouting if we do not want to die to all-ins. The following are some important things to consider:
- If the zerg has taken an early gas (Before 4 minutes) consider getting a bunker, definitely do a follow up scout
- Check for a fast 3rd base, since this is what many zergs do in response to 1rax FE -> around 5-6 minutes
- Use your hellion to scout for an abnormal ammount of lings (more than 6)
- Control the watch tower with your marines if possible
- Try not to use a scan, learn to read the zerg better (most of their all ins are not too hard to scout with scvs/hellions as long as you are diligent)
Executing the attack/Microing the Army
- Marines + thors in a control group -> attack move across the map
- 16 scvs in another control group -> turn on auto repair -> right click on a thor -> deselect 4 scvs -> right click on another thor -> repeat until each thor has 4 scvs
- vs pure ling -> tight formation -> 1a + laugh
- vs ling bane -> split your 4 thors up, control marines manually and split if possible -> tight formation once banes are dead
- vs ling roach -> tight formation -> manually control thors to focus fire roaches -> the lings wont do much dmg compared to the roaches
- vs ling bane roach -> combo of the above
- vs mutas -> drop mules and tell him to get out
Tips and Tricks:
- Hide the armory and factories if possible.
- Use the hellion actively if you can to clear watchtowers prior to your push
- Make some sort of simcity at your natural to protect against all-ins
- Micro your marines behind your tanky thors
- Thors sometimes shoot overlords, if one of them is stupid enough to do that manually control him into the fight
- Make sure you have setup your control groups properly, use atleast 2 control groups
- Scout ahead with the hellion to see what unit composition you are facing
- 2 thors cost 12 supply, so plan ahead, getting supply blocked even for a bit will delay your push quite a bit so practice this build in single player a few times
- Queens pop at roughly 4:45 so scout for gas and gtfo
- Buy the collectors edition for extra intimidation
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ISurD.jpg) You're doing it right!
Replays:
http://drop.sc/218772
The most normal situation you will face. 4 queen opening from zerg into fast 3rd base and +1/+1 from the zerg with heavy drones and a defensive baneling nest. I recommend watching this replay first.
http://drop.sc/218774
Moderately fast 3rd from my opponent and heaving droning, he tries to defend with ling bane roach but gets crushed with a little micro.
http://drop.sc/218775
This guy attempted an econ baneling bust against me. However I sniffed it out with my scv/hellion and had enough sim city to defend reasonably well. The follow up push with 7 thors crushed his spine + roach defense.
http://drop.sc/218776
My opponent this game goes for the 8:45 DRG style ling/bane/roach all in on antiga. I was able to scout a fast gas and had some sim city prepared for him. My first 2 thors pop out to save the day right as the depots/bunkers came crashing down.
http://drop.sc/218777
My opponent misreads my opening as a 1rax FE into hellion + cloak banshee (polt style). He takes a relatively slow 3rd as a result and spends alot of money on static defenses. He is crushed as a result of his misread.
http://drop.sc/218773
In this game I skip the hellion because I know my opponent's style is heavy macro, my push hits 20 seconds faster and is brutally effective.
Questions and Answers *New*
+ Show Spoiler + On July 12 2012 08:11 Aulisemia wrote:I like it.  Quick question though, I see your core buildings are 2 tech lab factories and 1 reactor rax - why not drop a factory on the reactor for hellions to fight the zerglings? Do you just not have the gas income early on for that 3rd factory? My gut feeling is that you will not have the mineral income needed to still hit the timing and pump out of 3 factories. This also messes up the gas income slightly. I'll experiment around with this idea. On July 12 2012 08:28 RyuChus wrote:
Few questions here. If he does all-in what should I do? Having only 4 marines at the prime time for a baneling bust doesn't sound fun to me. What happens when I lose my hellion, should I reproduce, scan, or continue to scout with scvs? If the push fails and is not effective, do I transition to a Marine Tank midgame, or will I just lose outright? Thanks.
EDIT: One more.. If I can't hide my armory from the zerg, will the zerg just know what's going on, and be able to defend it easier, or is the push still just as effective? You gotta scout it out with your 1st scv, your follow up scv and your hellion. This takes quite a bit of game sense to read your opponent properly. An econ baneling bust will kill you unless you scout it. Do not reproduce your hellion, that will mess your timings up, I would just rescout with an scv. As long as there are not speedlings you should get some information. If my push does some damage but doesnt't win out right I transition into mech if im ahead and a bio + blue flame allin if im behind. On July 12 2012 09:10 Blazinghand wrote:
Four thors and seven years ago...
this looks like a lot of fun! I'm a big fan of thor all-ins, and they are fun early game units in TvZ.
You mention scouting for zerg all-ins during that initial vulnerable period, and I was wondering what an appropriate reaction to a baneling allin or something would be using this build. 2 bunkers on low ground spread out + sim city around the bunkers + a wall in at the top of the ramp. On July 12 2012 11:40 RamboJesus wrote:
I watched all the replays and must say this seems like a very impressive build, I'm curious if you could upload replays of the times you've lost with it. I'll try to find some, but to be honest it's very straight forward losses. Either I didnt s cout and got all-ined because I'm lazy, or I messed up a thor split horribly and lost all my scvs to banelings. On July 12 2012 11:58 dynwar7 wrote:
What if the zerg gas steals? Its going to delay this a lot? In 1 of your replays he stole your gas at your natural, so I guess its fine, but what if he steals your gas in your main base? Take the gas at the natural faster and transfer over scvs. This will slow the build down by 10 seconds or so though. On July 12 2012 12:36 dynwar7 wrote:Just tried this vs GTAI and.... well, all my thors got NPed  What were your 12 marines doing? Just standing around? They should be able to help with focus fire micro. I have not met this once on ladder admitedly, so theorycraft is the best I can offer. On July 12 2012 13:45 Eps wrote:
Nice to see these post-patch builds coming from you =).
The pushes seem to be very solid, and they also hit before Z has enough larva to mass Roaches for defence.
I watched a few of the replays. The 3rd replay however was a bit troubling, seeing how well the Spines and Roaches fared. Although you did win, I can't help but think if Z had positioned his Spines more effectively that the outcome may have been different. He had 3 spines in his main on Shakuras. If he had placed them on the high ground above the choke, they'd be in a solid position to snipe off SCVs or damage the Thors. The speed that the first Thor dropped was also a bit scary, considering you'd think they'd be a bit Tankier. If you noticed I messed up my micro a bit. I didn't have my scvs on autorepair until like 8 seconds into the fight. Mass spines + roach is a legit build against this. Just pick off what you can and go home and fight 2 base vs 2 base. On July 13 2012 12:40 Xingke wrote:
Decided to try this. First game I encounter the guy goes blind roach drop. I force him back after he kills 1 factory and killing his natural, but he had enough roaches to just completely kill all of the thors + marines with his roaches, even with mass repair and focus firing, and counter for a win. Attack hit within about 5-10 seconds of your push on your Antiga game(was the map it happened on), because I paused for a second before deciding to keep going with the push when he dropped me. Now that you mention this, I have lost in the exact same way on the exact same map o.o I guess you gotta sniff it out with the hellion? It's a pretty rare build though so I guess just scout more, not much you can do once it starts. On July 13 2012 15:15 TofuSurprise wrote:
How does this strategy deal with a counter attack that hits after you move out with your initial push, but before your push reaches the zerg base?? Do you just go for the base trade? 95% of the time I go for a base trade, you need to analyze the situation on a case by case basis. Terran comes out ahead in base trades normally, remember to send all your scvs up to your thors or use them to repair the 5th/6th thor that is about to pop out and you should be ok. On July 13 2012 16:06 EngrishTeacher wrote:Just played this vs. a high master zerg. I guess zergs have seen this build enough to know it's coming, because all my thors got NP'ed  Tried to snipe the infestors but mass lings just tore my marines apart. I'm thinking of getting just a few banshees to snipe infestors, going to test out some timings and report back. Blind counter NP is just a silly build from zerg. 2 base infestor is a horrible build... but I guess it works well against this build. I'm sure after a few weeks when people arent trying this out a bunch that silly 2 base infestor build will go away. On July 13 2012 16:41 y0su wrote:
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9). Correct. Sometimes I do this but most of the time I don't bother. This is a slight improvement on the orginal build though.
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sounds pretty sick bro, I cant wait to try this out. High master terran here struggling with TvZ but I think this could be the answer we need ^^ ty for your hard work
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sounds sick. and the best part is i find tons of z on ladder
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holy hell this build is incredibly powerful. its insane
ive always thought thors were in a strange place they are incredibly powerful and youve found a way to hit with them right before zerg can really get his 3base production cranking.
only suggestion id make is maybe forget the reactor on the rax and just make a second rax. could help you by sealing your front with depot+2raxes faster and 50gas/50min is roughly as expensive as 150min
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I've been working on a fast thor versus TvT build. Now here's a fast thor push vs. zerg. So awesome!
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this build is absolutely insane because thors cost for cost rape queens silly, and you hit at a time before he really has production turn all of his minerals into zerglings. and thors with repair pwn roaches. what is he gonna have roaches and banelings in time?
lol my god i can understand why this has 90% winrate in gm
not only that cuz it only works off 2factory, 1rax, you pull lots of scv's but who cares while attacking you can drop mules and make more scv's and probably go into lategame with this
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any suggestion on zerg dealing with this?
mass baneling maybe?
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On July 12 2012 07:43 chaosftw wrote:
any suggestion on zerg dealing with this?
mass baneling maybe? Judging from the composition and my own experience, I'd say to stay on hatch tech and two base Drone count and get 6-10 Banelings and then Roach/Ling. Use the Banelings to take out the SCV's and then Roach/Ling to kill everything else. This is just theory though, you'd have to try in a unit tester or in-game.
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I like it. Quick question though, I see your core buildings are 2 tech lab factories and 1 reactor rax - why not drop a factory on the reactor for hellions to fight the zerglings? Do you just not have the gas income early on for that 3rd factory?
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Few questions here. If he does all-in what should I do? Having only 4 marines at the prime time for a baneling bust doesn't sound fun to me. What happens when I lose my hellion, should I reproduce, scan, or continue to scout with scvs? If the push fails and is not effective, do I transition to a Marine Tank midgame, or will I just lose outright? Thanks.
EDIT: One more.. If I can't hide my armory from the zerg, will the zerg just know what's going on, and be able to defend it easier, or is the push still just as effective?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Four thors and seven years ago...
this looks like a lot of fun! I'm a big fan of thor all-ins, and they are fun early game units in TvZ.
You mention scouting for zerg all-ins during that initial vulnerable period, and I was wondering what an appropriate reaction to a baneling allin or something would be using this build.
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I tried it out and what happened? Finally my Zerg Opponents are saying "terran op" again :D.
Even if they scout the armory it works great. Thanks
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great strategy, great guide. time to reap zerg tears?
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Good strategy but it banks on the fact that most zerg think that mech terran will not be aggressive early on.
It's not hard for zerg to make roach ling to beat this, or banelings for AOE and extra damage.
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Is zerg able to get NP within 10 minutes?
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On July 12 2012 10:45 101toss wrote:
Is zerg able to get NP within 10 minutes?
if they 1base yeah. 2base.... maybe if they rush for it. 3base saturated.... no.
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well i think if you scouted the earlyish extra roach ling just make a third and continue into mech or bio mech and play it out.
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This actually looks like one of the best counters to the 6 queen build i have seen i will have to try it.
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Terran innovation hits the galaxy again!
Can't wait to try it out. So much props to the OP.
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Yeah I love how thors damage is so huge vs queens but....is this considered all in? I guess so since it brings what, 15-20 scvs?
I love the build but i dont really like doing allins... =/
Nice guide tho should help many terrans out there
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I watched all the replays and must say this seems like a very impressive build, I'm curious if you could upload replays of the times you've lost with it.
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inb4 blizzard nerfs thor again
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Was doing this thor marine style a very long time ago with great success but then i went back to usual tank marine.... heaven knows why.
Will give this bad boy a crack and mix it in to my build repertoire.
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On July 12 2012 11:39 dynwar7 wrote:
Yeah I love how thors damage is so huge vs queens but....is this considered all in? I guess so since it brings what, 15-20 scvs?
I love the build but i dont really like doing allins... =/
Nice guide tho should help many terrans out there
Do you like to lose?
Seriously people, a win is a win, set aside these silly inhibitions when the build you are doing punishes greedy play
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What if the zerg gas steals? Its going to delay this a lot? In 1 of your replays he stole your gas at your natural, so I guess its fine, but what if he steals your gas in your main base?
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On July 12 2012 11:51 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 11:39 dynwar7 wrote:
Yeah I love how thors damage is so huge vs queens but....is this considered all in? I guess so since it brings what, 15-20 scvs?
I love the build but i dont really like doing allins... =/
Nice guide tho should help many terrans out there Do you like to lose? Seriously people, a win is a win, set aside these silly inhibitions when the build you are doing punishes greedy play
That's assuming someone wants to all-in for the all mighty ladder points all day, instead of actually improving at the game. That said, after viewing the replays it does look like a pretty strong all-in and wouldn't be bad to keep in your arsenal and pull it out for fun sometimes or maybe in a best of 3 situation. Another nice guide brought to us by StimmedProbe, well done sir.
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i 100% think its smarter to just bring 10 scv's (instead of 16) allowing you to still macro heavily off the attack considering the zerg has to try so hard to stop it
just try really hard to micro the 10 scv's properly so they dont die to banelings, 10 scv's wont produce much different results compared to 16
i suggest building into mass thor/hellion/viking into the lategame with upgrades. only counter is mass roach and its kinda like PvZ where a toss can force a zerg to go hydras and rape with collossi, if you force a zerg to go roaches you rape with tanks. zerg ideally wants mass ling/infestor/broodlord which thor/hellion/viking pretty hard counters assuming your early attack did tons of damage
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On July 12 2012 11:58 dynwar7 wrote:
What if the zerg gas steals? Its going to delay this a lot? In 1 of your replays he stole your gas at your natural, so I guess its fine, but what if he steals your gas in your main base?
gas steal certainly heavily messes up with the speed of this attack. no doubt a gas steal and lower the speed by ~30 seconds
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On July 12 2012 12:03 ajkayken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 11:58 dynwar7 wrote:
What if the zerg gas steals? Its going to delay this a lot? In 1 of your replays he stole your gas at your natural, so I guess its fine, but what if he steals your gas in your main base? gas steal certainly heavily messes up with the speed of this attack. no doubt a gas steal and lower the speed by ~30 seconds
You can do the funky rax/depot walloff at the bottom of the ramp to prevent the scout from getting in and thus the gas steal
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On July 12 2012 12:02 ajkayken wrote:
i 100% think its smarter to just bring 10 scv's (instead of 16) allowing you to still macro heavily off the attack considering the zerg has to try so hard to stop it
just try really hard to micro the 10 scv's properly so they dont die to banelings, 10 scv's wont produce much different results compared to 16
i suggest building into mass thor/hellion/viking into the lategame with upgrades. only counter is mass roach and its kinda like PvZ where a toss can force a zerg to go hydras and rape with collossi, if you force a zerg to go roaches you rape with tanks. zerg ideally wants mass ling/infestor/broodlord which thor/hellion/viking pretty hard counters assuming your early attack did tons of damage
well tried it a few times, in about 600 ish point masters, if he totally flips off the idea of droning once he scouts it and stops at about 40 drones and gets lingbane he can hold it decently till he gets roach bane then he'll totally smash it.
well, still beats playing insanely for 45 mins then exploding due to one misclick and losing the game. most rage inducing way to lose ever.
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Just tried this vs GTAI and.... well, all my thors got NPed
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This has been tearing up Plat league, finally I know what it is so I can deal with it better!!!
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just tried this build and it's amazing, thanks alot
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This is definetely not an all in. It's not over if your push failed. However, you need to do some sort of damage to stay in the game. I did it a few times, and even while pushing you're making SCVs. I still haven't got to a situation where I had to transition into something else because if the first 4 thors win the fight, it's basically over.
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Nice to see these post-patch builds coming from you =).
The pushes seem to be very solid, and they also hit before Z has enough larva to mass Roaches for defence.
I watched a few of the replays. The 3rd replay however was a bit troubling, seeing how well the Spines and Roaches fared. Although you did win, I can't help but think if Z had positioned his Spines more effectively that the outcome may have been different. He had 3 spines in his main on Shakuras. If he had placed them on the high ground above the choke, they'd be in a solid position to snipe off SCVs or damage the Thors. The speed that the first Thor dropped was also a bit scary, considering you'd think they'd be a bit Tankier.
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On July 12 2012 08:11 Aulisemia wrote:I like it. Quick question though, I see your core buildings are 2 tech lab factories and 1 reactor rax - why not drop a factory on the reactor for hellions to fight the zerglings? Do you just not have the gas income early on for that 3rd factory?
My gut feeling is that you will not have the mineral income needed to still hit the timing and pump out of 3 factories. This also messes up the gas income slightly. I'll experiment around with this idea.
On July 12 2012 08:28 RyuChus wrote:
Few questions here. If he does all-in what should I do? Having only 4 marines at the prime time for a baneling bust doesn't sound fun to me. What happens when I lose my hellion, should I reproduce, scan, or continue to scout with scvs? If the push fails and is not effective, do I transition to a Marine Tank midgame, or will I just lose outright? Thanks.
EDIT: One more.. If I can't hide my armory from the zerg, will the zerg just know what's going on, and be able to defend it easier, or is the push still just as effective?
You gotta scout it out with your 1st scv, your follow up scv and your hellion. This takes quite a bit of game sense to read your opponent properly. An econ baneling bust will kill you unless you scout it. Do not reproduce your hellion, that will mess your timings up, I would just rescout with an scv. As long as there are not speedlings you should get some information. If my push does some damage but doesnt't win out right I transition into mech if im ahead and a bio + blue flame allin if im behind.
On July 12 2012 09:10 Blazinghand wrote:
Four thors and seven years ago...
this looks like a lot of fun! I'm a big fan of thor all-ins, and they are fun early game units in TvZ.
You mention scouting for zerg all-ins during that initial vulnerable period, and I was wondering what an appropriate reaction to a baneling allin or something would be using this build.
2 bunkers on low ground spread out + sim city around the bunkers + a wall in at the top of the ramp.
On July 12 2012 11:40 RamboJesus wrote:
I watched all the replays and must say this seems like a very impressive build, I'm curious if you could upload replays of the times you've lost with it.
I'll try to find some, but to be honest it's very straight forward losses. Either I didnt s cout and got all-ined because I'm lazy, or I messed up a thor split horribly and lost all my scvs to banelings.
On July 12 2012 11:58 dynwar7 wrote:
What if the zerg gas steals? Its going to delay this a lot? In 1 of your replays he stole your gas at your natural, so I guess its fine, but what if he steals your gas in your main base?
Take the gas at the natural faster and transfer over scvs. This will slow the build down by 10 seconds or so though.
On July 12 2012 12:36 dynwar7 wrote:Just tried this vs GTAI and.... well, all my thors got NPed
What were your 12 marines doing? Just standing around? They should be able to help with focus fire micro. I have not met this once on ladder admitedly, so theorycraft is the best I can offer.
On July 12 2012 13:45 Eps wrote:
Nice to see these post-patch builds coming from you =).
The pushes seem to be very solid, and they also hit before Z has enough larva to mass Roaches for defence.
I watched a few of the replays. The 3rd replay however was a bit troubling, seeing how well the Spines and Roaches fared. Although you did win, I can't help but think if Z had positioned his Spines more effectively that the outcome may have been different. He had 3 spines in his main on Shakuras. If he had placed them on the high ground above the choke, they'd be in a solid position to snipe off SCVs or damage the Thors. The speed that the first Thor dropped was also a bit scary, considering you'd think they'd be a bit Tankier.
If you noticed I messed up my micro a bit. I didn't have my scvs on autorepair until like 8 seconds into the fight. Mass spines + roach is a legit build against this. Just pick off what you can and go home and fight 2 base vs 2 base.
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On July 12 2012 11:39 dynwar7 wrote:
Yeah I love how thors damage is so huge vs queens but....is this considered all in? I guess so since it brings what, 15-20 scvs?
I love the build but i dont really like doing allins... =/
Nice guide tho should help many terrans out there
Well, the problem with an allin is that it's a gamble right? So it's this or deal with Infestor Broodlord a few minutes later. This build fits the game design at this point.
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thxs for the build. pretty easy to execute and remember the BO. first game with it and won convincingly. "f you" is all my opponent had to say before leaving abruptly.
I'd say this build is pretty all-in. But that's fine by me, been looking for some 2-base all-in anyhow.
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thanks for the build, has been following ur builds since long time ago :p u amazing
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On July 12 2012 12:00 Crowned wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 11:51 101toss wrote:On July 12 2012 11:39 dynwar7 wrote:
Yeah I love how thors damage is so huge vs queens but....is this considered all in? I guess so since it brings what, 15-20 scvs?
I love the build but i dont really like doing allins... =/
Nice guide tho should help many terrans out there Do you like to lose? Seriously people, a win is a win, set aside these silly inhibitions when the build you are doing punishes greedy play That's assuming someone wants to all-in for the all mighty ladder points all day, instead of actually improving at the game. That said, after viewing the replays it does look like a pretty strong all-in and wouldn't be bad to keep in your arsenal and pull it out for fun sometimes or maybe in a best of 3 situation. Another nice guide brought to us by StimmedProbe, well done sir.
And you're assuming people are going to use the same TvZ build all day.
On another note, it's good to see that Terrans have 2base builds set up for specific punishing timings, much like PvZ 2base timings.
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tried this out a few times yesterday. worked really well. one thing i added though is 2 more rax near the time i push out. i feel like you can overwhelm them better with the extra marines and it doesnt really hurt my econ or slow me down. also it could make your bfh bio follow up a lot faster if you already have 3 rax.
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I've played the build a couple of times, and I have to say I really like it. Another thing great about it is it opens the same as the recommended build in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308972 which is also viable in the current TvZ meta-game, letting players switch between this build and that build very easily while going into Mech in both circumstances.
As the main difference that the Zerg can spot early on is the very early third gas, I imagine on many maps you can deny the scouting Overlord by being active with your first Marine and placing the Refinery on the geyser less likely to be seen by an Overlord, thus having a chance of making the Zerg react to a Cloaked Banshee that will never come and strengthen your push tremendously. You can also do things like sending out one Hellion with the other build order initially instead of both of them for scouting, making him think you're doing this push instead.
/Theory Craft
Edit: On July 13 2012 01:57 triforks wrote:
tried this out a few times yesterday. worked really well. one thing i added though is 2 more rax near the time i push out. i feel like you can overwhelm them better with the extra marines and it doesnt really hurt my econ or slow me down. also it could make your bfh bio follow up a lot faster if you already have 3 rax. Personally I like getting a third base and the fourth refinery ASAP and going into Mech. I guess you can probably go into Bio-Mech though, using Thor/Marine/Hellion, maybe?
Edit: Also ♥♥♥ StimmedProbe!
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does anyone have more reps that u guys transits this build into mech or anything lategame ?
thanks
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On July 13 2012 05:37 foxj wrote:
does anyone have more reps that u guys transits this build into mech or anything lategame ?
thanks
take the barracks off the reactor put a factory there, bam you are meching lol.
edit: and thank you stimmed probe this is an awesome guide, im currently writing a guide to new age tvz going to include this build 100%
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Long time lurker, first time poster.
Just created the account to say that this guide is awesome!
I'm diamond and this works fine for me and I even beat some master players with it.
I no longer need to sigh when I see that my opponent is Zerg
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Decided to try this. First game I encounter the guy goes blind roach drop. I force him back after he kills 1 factory and killing his natural, but he had enough roaches to just completely kill all of the thors + marines with his roaches, even with mass repair and focus firing, and counter for a win. Attack hit within about 5-10 seconds of your push on your Antiga game(was the map it happened on), because I paused for a second before deciding to keep going with the push when he dropped me.
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I lol'd a bit at the scenario with mutas. Great writeup; going to try this out sometime.
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DUDE THIS IS ABSOLUTELY MIND BLOWING.
I love you stimmedprobe
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How does this strategy deal with a counter attack that hits after you move out with your initial push, but before your push reaches the zerg base?? Do you just go for the base trade?
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Have you come up with any kind of transition from this build?
If you cant kill the zerg, but still did some damage (like sniping his 3rd), whats your nex step?
Do u have econ to take a 3rd into mech?
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On July 13 2012 15:32 SweKenZo wrote:
Have you come up with any kind of transition from this build?
If you cant kill the zerg, but still did some damage (like sniping his 3rd), whats your nex step?
Do u have econ to take a 3rd into mech? You absolutely have the economy to take a third and go mech. You just put another Factory onto the Reactor your Barracks is using, start a third, and you're meching! If your push is deflected but you don't lose it, you can also send the SCV's back to mine and you have a full economy again, plus you already have +1 armor started so you can get +2 ASAP!
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Just played this vs. a high master zerg.
I guess zergs have seen this build enough to know it's coming, because all my thors got NP'ed Tried to snipe the infestors but mass lings just tore my marines apart.
I'm thinking of getting just a few banshees to snipe infestors, going to test out some timings and report back.
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I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9).
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On July 13 2012 16:41 y0su wrote:
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9).
Yep, gas saturation is as follows: first SCV = 100% gain, 2nd SCV = 100% gain, 3rd SCV = only 50% gain.
So 3 gas x 3 scvs each gives 750% gas gain, for a total of 9 scvs mining gas.
Whereas 4 gas x 2 scvs each gives 800% gas gain, for a total of only 8 scvs mining.
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On July 13 2012 16:55 EngrishTeacher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 16:41 y0su wrote:
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9). Yep, gas saturation is as follows: first SCV = 100% gain, 2nd SCV = 100% gain, 3rd SCV = only 50% gain. So 3 gas x 3 scvs each gives 750% gas gain, for a total of 9 scvs mining gas. Whereas 4 gas x 2 scvs each gives 800% gas gain, for a total of only 8 scvs mining.
Actually it's map-dependant. On maps like Metalopolis where one of your main gas geysers is very far from your CC, it takes 4 SCV's for maximum saturation. I can see how this could work on maps with as-close-as-possible geysers, though.
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On July 13 2012 12:40 Xingke wrote:
Decided to try this. First game I encounter the guy goes blind roach drop. I force him back after he kills 1 factory and killing his natural, but he had enough roaches to just completely kill all of the thors + marines with his roaches, even with mass repair and focus firing, and counter for a win. Attack hit within about 5-10 seconds of your push on your Antiga game(was the map it happened on), because I paused for a second before deciding to keep going with the push when he dropped me.
Now that you mention this, I have lost in the exact same way on the exact same map o.o I guess you gotta sniff it out with the hellion? It's a pretty rare build though so I guess just scout more, not much you can do once it starts.
On July 13 2012 15:15 TofuSurprise wrote:
How does this strategy deal with a counter attack that hits after you move out with your initial push, but before your push reaches the zerg base?? Do you just go for the base trade?
95% of the time I go for a base trade, you need to analyze the situation on a case by case basis. Terran comes out ahead in base trades normally, remember to send all your scvs up to your thors or use them to repair the 5th/6th thor that is about to pop out and you should be ok.
On July 13 2012 16:06 EngrishTeacher wrote:Just played this vs. a high master zerg. I guess zergs have seen this build enough to know it's coming, because all my thors got NP'ed Tried to snipe the infestors but mass lings just tore my marines apart. I'm thinking of getting just a few banshees to snipe infestors, going to test out some timings and report back.
Blind counter NP is just a silly build from zerg. 2 base infestor is a horrible build... but I guess it works well against this build. I'm sure after a few weeks when people arent trying this out a bunch that silly 2 base infestor build will go away.
On July 13 2012 16:41 y0su wrote:
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9).
Correct. Sometimes I do this but most of the time I don't bother. This is a slight improvement on the orginal build though.
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It's a good strat but it loses to early infestors. My friend tried it on me a few times (High masters).
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y0su July 13 2012 16:41. Posts 873 PM Profile Quote #
I like it. I was doing a similar 4 thor all in vs Toss for fun a few months back.
One thing I found out... you can get more gas with less SCVs if you take all 4 gases and only harvest with 2 SCVs per refinery. The one time cost of 75 min and lost mining time for construction are quickly made up by having an additional SCV harvesting minerals (8 on gas instead of 9).
Does this also work against protoss? I feel like if Protoss goes for a few Immortals it will be pretty hard. Is there anything that should be changed in the build to make it better against protoss? Armor research might not be worth it?
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On July 12 2012 12:00 Crowned wrote:
That's assuming someone wants to all-in for the all mighty ladder points all day, instead of actually improving at the game. That said, after viewing the replays it does look like a pretty strong all-in and wouldn't be bad to keep in your arsenal and pull it out for fun sometimes or maybe in a best of 3 situation. Another nice guide brought to us by StimmedProbe, well done sir. This makes the false assumption that learning to execute a build perfectly and optimizing unit control aren't "improving at the game". Learning this build and perfecting it just adds it (or a variation of it) to your arsenal for when you scout a zerg doing something in a future meta game.
I can not count the games I have won because of builds I practiced heavily before. Sometimes you see something, know exactly how to punish it, and decide to go for the throat.
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On July 13 2012 17:23 StimmedProbe wrote:
Now that you mention this, I have lost in the exact same way on the exact same map o.o I guess you gotta sniff it out with the hellion? It's a pretty rare build though so I guess just scout more, not much you can do once it starts.
Yea, it was just awkward for the very first time I try it that happens -_-.
That being said it did work rather nicely in the other games I tried it. I never had games end with the push but I was able to do enough damage(in all but 1 game) to kill them on a followup push.
The 1 game it didn't work so well it turned into a long drawn out game but I was still able to win due to massive corrupter/bl clumping vs thors(lols).
I like it as a build to have in your pocket but I don't really like the style as a main go to build personally.
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How well does this hold up against Stephano style 10-11 minute max army? Day 9 covered this Zerg build...
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On July 14 2012 12:32 Setev wrote:
How well does this hold up against Stephano style 10-11 minute max army? Day 9 covered this Zerg build...
.... Thats a ZvP build..
Ive never seen anyone do it vs terran..
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On July 14 2012 12:32 Setev wrote:
How well does this hold up against Stephano style 10-11 minute max army? Day 9 covered this Zerg build... If you don't scout it and don't make tanks you will lose.
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Finally some terrans spent some time working on a build. I might have to harvest some of my own tears if they are really going so high right now on the market.
(zerg player).
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On July 14 2012 13:25 9-BiT wrote:
Finally some terrans spent some time working on a build. I might have to harvest some of my own tears if they are really going so high right now on the market.
(zerg player).
Just don't...
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Don't worry, 9m/16scv rushing @ 4:25 has gotten me a nice supply of zerg tears
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I think you should note that since this build is so tight, you can't use energy on a scan under any circumstances as it will delay your push tremendously. I just did that, and against a player who went 8 mutas he owned my push with mass Roaches, although admittedly my macro wasn't very good at all, I feel like the scan delayed my push by 30 seconds or so due to lack of minerals.
Replay of this: http://drop.sc/221761
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What's the Zerg hard counter? Cheers.
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On July 14 2012 19:50 jimbob615 wrote:
What's the Zerg hard counter? Cheers.
1. Scout
2. Delay
3. Engage at spines if possible
4. Surround with your whole army in one big attack
5. Roach for thors and banes for scv/marine
6. Transfuse on spine/roach with queens
7. Collect ladder points
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On July 14 2012 20:04 ujonecro wrote:1. Scout 2. Delay 3. Engage at spines if possible 4. Surround with your whole army in one big attack 5. Roach for thors and banes for scv/marine 6. Transfuse on spine/roach with queens 7. Collect ladder points
lings are much better then roaches vs thor really, don't need roaches vs this stuff. Just need enough ling/bane with some upgrades and good targeting of the banes. Thor's are incredibly ineffective vs lings because they overkill on each shot. You have to take out the scv's first though but that isn't as difficult anymore as it used to be.
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On July 14 2012 19:50 jimbob615 wrote:
What's the Zerg hard counter? Cheers.
mass roach - zvp style opening.
Marines wont have combat shields, medivac support or any other upgrades and thus kind of suck vs roaches. Scv on autorepair will automatically be targeted by roaches without even trying. You wont need banelings or lings at all. Other option is infestors with neural upgrade.
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On July 14 2012 20:40 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 20:04 ujonecro wrote:On July 14 2012 19:50 jimbob615 wrote:
What's the Zerg hard counter? Cheers. 1. Scout 2. Delay 3. Engage at spines if possible 4. Surround with your whole army in one big attack 5. Roach for thors and banes for scv/marine 6. Transfuse on spine/roach with queens 7. Collect ladder points lings are much better then roaches vs thor really, don't need roaches vs this stuff. Just need enough ling/bane with some upgrades and good targeting of the banes. Thor's are incredibly ineffective vs lings because they overkill on each shot. You have to take out the scv's first though but that isn't as difficult anymore as it used to be.
this is true vs 1-2 thors where you get a nice surround, 4 thors with 12 marines and 16 scv will for a nice clump making lings a bad choice - while a critical amount of roaches can 1 or 2 shot a thor and no amount of autorepair will help
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On July 14 2012 20:40 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 20:04 ujonecro wrote:On July 14 2012 19:50 jimbob615 wrote:
What's the Zerg hard counter? Cheers. 1. Scout 2. Delay 3. Engage at spines if possible 4. Surround with your whole army in one big attack 5. Roach for thors and banes for scv/marine 6. Transfuse on spine/roach with queens 7. Collect ladder points lings are much better then roaches vs thor really, don't need roaches vs this stuff. Just need enough ling/bane with some upgrades and good targeting of the banes. Thor's are incredibly ineffective vs lings because they overkill on each shot. You have to take out the scv's first though but that isn't as difficult anymore as it used to be.
Thing is, if he is decent enough he puts those thors, or basically whole blob of marines/thors in a choke with scvs in front to tank everything and you just die.
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On July 14 2012 20:48 ujonecro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 20:40 Markwerf wrote:On July 14 2012 20:04 ujonecro wrote:On July 14 2012 19:50 jimbob615 wrote:
What's the Zerg hard counter? Cheers. 1. Scout 2. Delay 3. Engage at spines if possible 4. Surround with your whole army in one big attack 5. Roach for thors and banes for scv/marine 6. Transfuse on spine/roach with queens 7. Collect ladder points lings are much better then roaches vs thor really, don't need roaches vs this stuff. Just need enough ling/bane with some upgrades and good targeting of the banes. Thor's are incredibly ineffective vs lings because they overkill on each shot. You have to take out the scv's first though but that isn't as difficult anymore as it used to be. Thing is, if he is decent enough he puts those thors, or basically whole blob of marines/thors in a choke with scvs in front to tank everything and you just die.
thing is that you dont need to engage him in a choke, since your buildings wont be under fire in a choke, and obviously zerg will want to delay and just wait for the economy to kick in nicely vs a 2 base terran with practically no upgrades and little tech. The only choke would be ramps so close to your natural that your creep should have been spread long from there and a thormarine push should never ever reach that far if you have min. 40 roaches out
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This build looks quite awesome ! Reminds me in some way of 2BaseCollossus ... Rush for Hightech-Big-Units and support them with everything you have.
Question: Is it possible to build a second barracks instead of the Reactor and walloff your Natural with one Bunker and the two barracks? Or will this delay the Push too much? Thank You! :D
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I love this build. I'm starting to get Zergs to complain about how Terran is OP again!
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I've done this build about a half dozen times in the last day or two in mid-master. It is a strong 2-base all-in. So far my losses have been either to a mistake on my part (your macro and timings need to be very tight), or to my opponent having just enough banes to kill my scvs/marines and mass roach targeting the thors.
It even worked against a toss player too oO
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Which particular maps is this best on? I want to try it out, but also have a solid build that I'm liking at the moment, so I think I will switch between the two.
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Both times I ran this build I got scouted very easily (low marine count, the superspeed overlord just waltzes in and sees everything).
Then they proceeded to make lings and banes. The first attack the bane splash killed all my scvs. I won the first battle in both cases, but they just pounded lings at the thors until they were all dead, then it turned into a laugher.
I think this is a good surprise build, but once it is out in the metagame that it is available, and zergs fly that overlord in to see the two factories, it will not work very often.
Great idea though, and I love how some zergs are taking this opportunity to pretend they are not OP
Edit: In the reps from Stimmedprobe, I think the big mistake of his opponents is chasing the marines with the banelings. This was the mistake. My opponents just A moved the banes and they crashed into the thors and killed all the scvs. The scvs are the key to this whole strat, and if they die so does your push. Splitting will of course help (and he split well), but I do believe that once zergs learn this strat we will just see a nice mass of banes followed by continuous rounds of lings.
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I was shocked you managed to hold my aggression - I often take out GMs with that build, but your simcity was great, coupled with thors I didn't expect and a terrible choke that I panic-engaged in; great build
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Its a cool build , I commend you for making it. But if i were Zerg, crashin into the thors with banes to kill the scvs is the best thing to do , the scv's are the staple , then massing with lings will destroy it.
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If the SCVs are the thing which holds this build together and the zergs kill the SCVs by crashing into the Thors with Banelings why not try retreating and splitting your SCVs away from your Thors when you see Banes coming in? Yeah it would be very micro intensive, especially since you would probably also have to take the SCVs off auto-repair to stop them clumping up and trying to repair the Thors, then remember to put them on auto-repair and surround the thors again evenly once the Banes have exploded. You would probably lose a lot of marines too since it would be hard to split both Marines and SCVs at the same time in such a small amount of time.
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On July 13 2012 07:13 marand wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster. Just created the account to say that this guide is awesome! I'm diamond and this works fine for me and I even beat some master players with it. I no longer need to sigh when I see that my opponent is Zerg
Yay! Finally got into masters! Thanks to this build. :-)
I feel that if Zerg goes for roaches its an easy win. When they manage to hold the push it has always been with banelings.
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I haven't tried this build yet as i am at work... but ihave a question? how does this build fare against someone massing speeds early? are the 16 repairing scv's enought to hold it? the reason i say this is cuz i am in gold league and ppl do stupid stuff all the time. also when you mention "hiding the armory and factories" would building proxy factories be worth it and save time in the push?
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On July 16 2012 06:22 ImANinjaBich wrote:I haven't tried this build yet as i am at work... but ihave a question? how does this build fare against someone massing speeds early? are the 16 repairing scv's enought to hold it? the reason i say this is cuz i am in gold league and ppl do stupid stuff all the time. also when you mention "hiding the armory and factories" would building proxy factories be worth it and save time in the push?
If they don't have banelings it works fine for you. Just keep your thors in a tight formation.
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On July 16 2012 06:22 ImANinjaBich wrote:I haven't tried this build yet as i am at work... but ihave a question? how does this build fare against someone massing speeds early? are the 16 repairing scv's enought to hold it? the reason i say this is cuz i am in gold league and ppl do stupid stuff all the time. also when you mention "hiding the armory and factories" would building proxy factories be worth it and save time in the push?
That timing is too late for proxy, any decent zerg would scout it.
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Great build, I often transition into tanks after the initial push to deal with mass roach. Expand with PFs, (I pull less SCVs than the OP) and you have a really solid Mech opening that you can transition into macro play with
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On July 15 2012 01:41 kollin wrote:
Which particular maps is this best on? I want to try it out, but also have a solid build that I'm liking at the moment, so I think I will switch between the two.
Small maps, because thors are very slow
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Do you have a replay where your gas gets stolen? I am still unsure how to react after reading your answer.
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If the zerg goes for roach pressure, which is still common, they can see this coming and get out a ton of roaches in time. Coaches are underestimated in this match up; they are good vs marines without stim, medivacs, and high numbers.
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It seems like this would be very weak to banelings. Come around the back of the thors with speedlings, and come in with banelings. The lings will aggro the scvs because they are closer.
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I've been trying this, and it seems like everytime they go roach bane it shits all over this build. Then you just die because you did no damage and brought so many scvs :[
Its not a macro thing per se, I'm masters. I'm having a hard time believing this is better than normal play. Is anyone else getting shit on by roach bane with this build? I think its already figured out and just good play is much better.
edit- I should clarify that if they delay their 3rd and mass roach bane, I feel like its pretty close to autolose
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On July 21 2012 11:41 honkeybeef wrote:
I've been trying this, and it seems like everytime they go roach bane it shits all over this build. Then you just die because you did no damage and brought so many scvs :[
Its not a macro thing per se, I'm masters. I'm having a hard time believing this is better than normal play. Is anyone else getting shit on by roach bane with this build? I think its already figured out and just good play is much better.
edit- I should clarify that if they delay their 3rd and mass roach bane, I feel like its pretty close to autolose
Your hellion should be able to scout if they took a 3rd base. If they haven't that means they are either teching to muta/infestors on two bases, or going for heavy units either for an all-in or they have scouted what you are doing and responding to it. You do NOT have to move out, you can easily plop down a 3rd CC and move your rax off the reactor and bam you are meching. You expanded fast, and have the infrastructure necessary for a macro game. You are in no way behind if you do not go for the timing. Post a replay, I'll take a look at it.
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Sick build. I was searching for something like this for a long time.
Thanks for sharing.
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This has been working for me lately. But if I get hit by roaches early, I usually don't have enough to defend..
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Awesome build. I rarely lose with it hahahaha, plus it brings rage
EDIT: use ---> lose
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Good God, StimmedProbe is on fire these days.
On July 12 2012 06:19 StimmedProbe wrote:
[*]Buy the collectors edition for extra intimidation
On July 12 2012 06:19 StimmedProbe wrote:
[*]vs mutas -> drop mules and tell him to get out
Oh shit.
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Why not CC first? Does the delayed rax slow down the push significantly?
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Festors+speedlings and you sit down again.
Nice thought tho, gghf
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On August 21 2012 22:42 -Flasket wrote:
Festors+speedlings and you sit down again.
Nice thought tho, gghf
Infestors in low numbers should be microable (split thors so that all scvs cannot be taken down by a single chain-fungal,
move marines back so that thors can hit the infestors should the try to fungal your bio force).
Regarding the zerglings, I think it is a good idea would be to reinforce with one or two waves of hellions. Should the first engagement occur near the third of the zerg, the first wave might even arrive on time.
The only criticism I have on the guide is the "4xThor" in the title, it makes so that this thread does not pop up if you search for "thor".
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Subbing 1 ghost for vehicle weapons makes this exact same build absolutely hilarious vs. Protoss. Onoz, not immortals, they'll kill all my... oh, nope, their dead.
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This is such a good build, I'm a high plat player who never uses builds ever, I just wing it, and still win ~50% of my games. Now that I have some direction, I'm undefeated in TvZ.
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Tried it with varying success, I have a couple of critiques.
It dies to 18 Gas via Roach or Baneling busts, if you don't have 2 Marines and 1 Marauder in the Bunker than you die to Roaches immediately, and without the Reactor Factory->Hellions and Starport->Banshee from 1/1/1 builds you have tremendous difficulty cleaning up the attack.
By going Barracks FE you let Zerg Gas steal vs you and delay you by ~10-15 seconds every time, there's really no reason to go Barracks FE vs Zerg at all if you know how to micro vs the 6 pool, and when you can go either Gas first and "bluff" Banshees or Command Center first for the increase in your Mineral enconomy you may as well. If you do go Barracks first, I think you're better off proxying the Barracks and Bunker harassing his natural because you don't really need to build any add ons off of your Barracks for a strict timing like you do for Reactor Hellions or a Cloaked Banshee Rush.
I don't think you gain as much from the Vehicle Armor upgrade as you would from saving that gas and aiming for either a Command Center First and Reactor Hellion Opening followed by 2 additional Tech Lab factories. Your 4 Marines and a Hellion give you absolutely no map control and you pretty much auto-lose to an early Baneling nest.
Basically I think you're too passive in the early game and pretty much die to everything a Zerg player can throw at you with 18 Gas because you have no map control. Likewise your build order doesn't really make any sense to me because the time you lose to Command Center first is easily made up for by the fact that you automatically gain the time back by being immune to any gas steals and you end up with more minerals regardless. I think you're pretty much always better off with either Gas first, CC first or a Proxy Barracks and transition into double Factory.
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I am in Plat, and have relied on the 1 rax FE into MMM + a few hellions. I attack the Zerg's 3rd around 10-11 minutes, and If I can take it out I can usually hang on to win.
Now that I've made it to Plat, that idea from the Filter SC2 noobschool doesn't seem to work out as well. I face Zerg opponents who defeat that pushout and save their 3rd with most or all drones intact.
I was excited to find this build, and it seemed promising at first in customs, but on the ladder it has been getting annihilated. it seems the extra creep spread alerts the Zerg about the attack early and they just mass lings or banes to shut down the early attack.
Is this still a valid build after the Queen/OL buff? Should I abandon and go back to the old 3rd attack method?
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On September 02 2012 12:49 Miket2424 wrote:
I am in Plat, and have relied on the 1 rax FE into MMM + a few hellions. I attack the Zerg's 3rd around 10-11 minutes, and If I can take it out I can usually hang on to win.
Now that I've made it to Plat, that idea from the Filter SC2 noobschool doesn't seem to work out as well. I face Zerg opponents who defeat that pushout and save their 3rd with most or all drones intact.
I was excited to find this build, and it seemed promising at first in customs, but on the ladder it has been getting annihilated. it seems the extra creep spread alerts the Zerg about the attack early and they just mass lings or banes to shut down the early attack.
Is this still a valid build after the Queen/OL buff? Should I abandon and go back to the old 3rd attack method?
Post a replay and I will look at it. The build has an extremely tiny timing window, if you miss it by even 30 seconds you can get overrun.
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On August 28 2012 03:33 Carrera26 wrote:
Subbing 1 ghost for vehicle weapons makes this exact same build absolutely hilarious vs. Protoss. Onoz, not immortals, they'll kill all my... oh, nope, their dead.
You can't just sub vehicle weapons for a ghost! Ghost academy + ghost = 350min, 150gas , vehicle weapons = 100min, 100gas.
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Love it!! I knew from the moment I saw this thread that I'd use it!
I've had huge success with it Ty StimmedProbe!
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On September 03 2012 07:01 superbarnie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 03:33 Carrera26 wrote:
Subbing 1 ghost for vehicle weapons makes this exact same build absolutely hilarious vs. Protoss. Onoz, not immortals, they'll kill all my... oh, nope, their dead. You can't just sub vehicle weapons for a ghost! Ghost academy + ghost = 350min, 150gas , vehicle weapons = 100min, 100gas.
Well obviously it's not EXACT, but it's close enough to be workable. But to be precise it's 5 marines and and additional 20 seconds of gas mining. Most of us non GM/Masters folks are going to have that much slack in our builds anyway, and I just found it to be hilariously overwhelming in the games I played with it.
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Oh god. Reminds me of stuff I used to face back in beta. Looks very strong, I'll have to look at some reps and try to figure it out
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I'm having some trouble making this work in the current meta, high masters EU. Anything changed ?
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On October 04 2012 11:29 The_Unseen wrote:
I'm having some trouble making this work in the current meta, high masters EU. Anything changed ?
What are you having issues with? The main times I lose (against mid master EU) is against ling bane roach which is becoming far more common.
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Stimmedprobe ty your build is definitely working for me as silver player ^^
It's even helpin me winning vs diamond zerg macroing hard (roach ling) in this custom match >>>> http://drop.sc/278805
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EPT![[image loading]](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100722102753/starcraft/images/thumb/3/3f/Thor_SC2_Head1.jpg/79px-Thor_SC2_Head1.jpg)
