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On June 16 2012 22:38 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 02:40 GleaM wrote:
If someone can post to me a pro game where the attack does no damage and the Z can still transition and win, without like a completely ridiculous blunder, I will change my opinion. As of now, however, there can be very little debate that this is all-in.
Building a nexus after 4gating PvZ or PvT doesn't mean that the 4gate isn't all-in. Building the nexus isn't a "transition" Hmm I don't think the 4gate analogy is a good one for the roach/ling/baneling. Usually a 4-gate is around 19-22 workers with 1 base, this is 2 base with about 35-38 workers and 2 gas (easily enough income to take a 3rd and continue droning with upgrades). Generally speaking, the bust has to do some pretty significant damage but the sheer size of it is almost enough to guarantee you do at least equalizing damage. You're stating the worst case scenario (that the attack somehow does no damage) proves that the build is all-in, but the definition of an all-in is not "an attack that must do damage to stay even," since most attacks fall into this category.
Zerg operates differently from other races with this all-in for 2 reasons. One is that you're building units and not drones, which means that you are taking an active role in sacrificing economy for army. That is why early zerg attacks need to do damage, because you are cutting workers to execute the push. Also, you are using a unit that detonates when it attacks, so you need to follow that unit up with many many more units, which is costing more larvae, more gas, and cutting more workers.
Furthermore, you are staying on hatchery tech, which is completely stunting your upgrades and later game tech.
Let's paint a scenario here: Terran player on daybreak goes for standard 3 OC play into marine-tank. The high level player will, at 9 minutes, have 2 or 3 tanks in seige mode, at least one bunker, a partial or full supply depot wall, and many marines.This is with no scouting necessary. This is just the simple progression and idea behind the build. (One of the main builds at the moment, being used by the majority of the GSL/GSTL terrans, where they get a fast 3 OC, double ebay, tanks, then go into crazy marine/tank/medivac mode) All of that was without scouting. With proper scouting you could be facing more bunkers and a better defense. So a 3 OC terran can either choose to take a 3rd with a significant worker lead because they did not cut workers with their unit production, or they could keep their 3rd oc in their base and begin to push as the Z is putting up his 3rd on hatch tech, in which case the zerg is fighting marines and tanks and 2 medivacs by around 10 minutes with 1-1 and stim with speedlings, slow banelings, and roaches, with little to no creep spread (2 queens injecting and MAYBE a 3rd queen, only with Stephano's style)50 drones at the most (assuming the inject cycle after the tanks are scouted by the push) and 3 hatches (assuming the 3rd is finished) with 2 of them being injected (unless the 3rd queen in stephano's style leaves creep duty and ambles her way back there)
I don't see any way to win a game from this spot as zerg, unless the terran player completely messes something up horribly badly and loses an army for nothing or his mouse dies or something.
My point is this: Standard terran play, even with no scouting, can make this push do zero damage. And if the push doeszero damage, it is virtually impossible, for the explained reason, to transition OUT of the all-in.
I will say this again: Any thoughts on this situation? And does anyone have replays of this build doing little/no damage and still being able to transition into a stable midgame with no complete blunders by the terran player?
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And at the 4gate comment:
As a protoss, after the first warp-in of stalkers around 6 minutes, I can throw down a nexus and have around 60% chrono for probes, and have this at the 6 minute mark, which is pretty similar comparatively with the timings discussed with the roach/ling/baneling all-in. If I use the build, however, and the stalkers do no damage, the only way that a standard terran medivac push would not destroy me is if I took some huge risk, or made DTs, or did some other sort of huge gamble, which is what would need to happen with my aforementioned hypothetical situation with the TvZ. Both transitions are extremely shaky because its hard to transition when you cut workers and tech for T1 units.
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On June 19 2012 13:55 GleaM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 22:38 TangSC wrote:On June 16 2012 02:40 GleaM wrote:
If someone can post to me a pro game where the attack does no damage and the Z can still transition and win, without like a completely ridiculous blunder, I will change my opinion. As of now, however, there can be very little debate that this is all-in.
Building a nexus after 4gating PvZ or PvT doesn't mean that the 4gate isn't all-in. Building the nexus isn't a "transition" Hmm I don't think the 4gate analogy is a good one for the roach/ling/baneling. Usually a 4-gate is around 19-22 workers with 1 base, this is 2 base with about 35-38 workers and 2 gas (easily enough income to take a 3rd and continue droning with upgrades). Generally speaking, the bust has to do some pretty significant damage but the sheer size of it is almost enough to guarantee you do at least equalizing damage. You're stating the worst case scenario (that the attack somehow does no damage) proves that the build is all-in, but the definition of an all-in is not "an attack that must do damage to stay even," since most attacks fall into this category. Zerg operates differently from other races with this all-in for 2 reasons. One is that you're building units and not drones, which means that you are taking an active role in sacrificing economy for army. That is why early zerg attacks need to do damage, because you are cutting workers to execute the push. Also, you are using a unit that detonates when it attacks, so you need to follow that unit up with many many more units, which is costing more larvae, more gas, and cutting more workers. Furthermore, you are staying on hatchery tech, which is completely stunting your upgrades and later game tech. Let's paint a scenario here: Terran player on daybreak goes for standard 3 OC play into marine-tank. The high level player will, at 9 minutes, have 2 or 3 tanks in seige mode, at least one bunker, a partial or full supply depot wall, and many marines.This is with no scouting necessary. This is just the simple progression and idea behind the build. (One of the main builds at the moment, being used by the majority of the GSL/GSTL terrans, where they get a fast 3 OC, double ebay, tanks, then go into crazy marine/tank/medivac mode) All of that was without scouting. With proper scouting you could be facing more bunkers and a better defense. So a 3 OC terran can either choose to take a 3rd with a significant worker lead because they did not cut workers with their unit production, or they could keep their 3rd oc in their base and begin to push as the Z is putting up his 3rd on hatch tech, in which case the zerg is fighting marines and tanks and 2 medivacs by around 10 minutes with 1-1 and stim with speedlings, slow banelings, and roaches, with little to no creep spread (2 queens injecting and MAYBE a 3rd queen, only with Stephano's style)50 drones at the most (assuming the inject cycle after the tanks are scouted by the push) and 3 hatches (assuming the 3rd is finished) with 2 of them being injected (unless the 3rd queen in stephano's style leaves creep duty and ambles her way back there) I don't see any way to win a game from this spot as zerg, unless the terran player completely messes something up horribly badly and loses an army for nothing or his mouse dies or something. My point is this: Standard terran play, even with no scouting, can make this push do zero damage. And if the push doeszero damage, it is virtually impossible, for the explained reason, to transition OUT of the all-in. I will say this again: Any thoughts on this situation? And does anyone have replays of this build doing little/no damage and still being able to transition into a stable midgame with no complete blunders by the terran player?
I don't think Terran can go gas-less FE into 3CC and still get 2-3 tanks with siege, a bunker, and a full supply depot wall before 9min. I've seen vioLet and Stephano do this build time and time again, and even if there's tanks they tend to do enough damage to transition and win. Most games I've seen haven't actually ended with this push - it's more of a stepping-stone into the mid game.
When you're executing the attack, you can actually drone up harder than you could if you were playing passive. Before you even start making roaches, you reach nearly full 2-base saturation with 2-3 gas. That means it only takes about 10 drones to fully saturate the gas and start 2 evo chambers. Often times, you can fully or partially saturate your third and begin a macro-hatch before you need to start making units. Naturally your tech is going to be a bit delayed (+1+1 and lair), but assuming you trade armies, take out a few depots/bunkers, and kill some SCVs, the delay in tech shouldn't hurt your mid-game.
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On June 19 2012 14:01 GleaM wrote:
And at the 4gate comment:
As a protoss, after the first warp-in of stalkers around 6 minutes, I can throw down a nexus and have around 60% chrono for probes, and have this at the 6 minute mark, which is pretty similar comparatively with the timings discussed with the roach/ling/baneling all-in. If I use the build, however, and the stalkers do no damage, the only way that a standard terran medivac push would not destroy me is if I took some huge risk, or made DTs, or did some other sort of huge gamble, which is what would need to happen with my aforementioned hypothetical situation with the TvZ. Both transitions are extremely shaky because its hard to transition when you cut workers and tech for T1 units.
A 6minute natural for protoss is pretty different than an 8:30 third for Zerg. Also, the saturation is completely different - 4gate is 1base saturation, roach/ling/bane is 2base saturation. The roach warren/bane nest may actually have use in the mid-game too (Roaches against mech, banelings against bio). You could always build the roaches/ling and not go for the bust, be completely safe to midgame pressure, and drone up your 3rd with upgrades and a lair.
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On June 19 2012 19:19 TangSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 13:55 GleaM wrote:On June 16 2012 22:38 TangSC wrote:On June 16 2012 02:40 GleaM wrote:
If someone can post to me a pro game where the attack does no damage and the Z can still transition and win, without like a completely ridiculous blunder, I will change my opinion. As of now, however, there can be very little debate that this is all-in.
Building a nexus after 4gating PvZ or PvT doesn't mean that the 4gate isn't all-in. Building the nexus isn't a "transition" Hmm I don't think the 4gate analogy is a good one for the roach/ling/baneling. Usually a 4-gate is around 19-22 workers with 1 base, this is 2 base with about 35-38 workers and 2 gas (easily enough income to take a 3rd and continue droning with upgrades). Generally speaking, the bust has to do some pretty significant damage but the sheer size of it is almost enough to guarantee you do at least equalizing damage. You're stating the worst case scenario (that the attack somehow does no damage) proves that the build is all-in, but the definition of an all-in is not "an attack that must do damage to stay even," since most attacks fall into this category. Zerg operates differently from other races with this all-in for 2 reasons. One is that you're building units and not drones, which means that you are taking an active role in sacrificing economy for army. That is why early zerg attacks need to do damage, because you are cutting workers to execute the push. Also, you are using a unit that detonates when it attacks, so you need to follow that unit up with many many more units, which is costing more larvae, more gas, and cutting more workers. Furthermore, you are staying on hatchery tech, which is completely stunting your upgrades and later game tech. Let's paint a scenario here: Terran player on daybreak goes for standard 3 OC play into marine-tank. The high level player will, at 9 minutes, have 2 or 3 tanks in seige mode, at least one bunker, a partial or full supply depot wall, and many marines.This is with no scouting necessary. This is just the simple progression and idea behind the build. (One of the main builds at the moment, being used by the majority of the GSL/GSTL terrans, where they get a fast 3 OC, double ebay, tanks, then go into crazy marine/tank/medivac mode) All of that was without scouting. With proper scouting you could be facing more bunkers and a better defense. So a 3 OC terran can either choose to take a 3rd with a significant worker lead because they did not cut workers with their unit production, or they could keep their 3rd oc in their base and begin to push as the Z is putting up his 3rd on hatch tech, in which case the zerg is fighting marines and tanks and 2 medivacs by around 10 minutes with 1-1 and stim with speedlings, slow banelings, and roaches, with little to no creep spread (2 queens injecting and MAYBE a 3rd queen, only with Stephano's style)50 drones at the most (assuming the inject cycle after the tanks are scouted by the push) and 3 hatches (assuming the 3rd is finished) with 2 of them being injected (unless the 3rd queen in stephano's style leaves creep duty and ambles her way back there) I don't see any way to win a game from this spot as zerg, unless the terran player completely messes something up horribly badly and loses an army for nothing or his mouse dies or something. My point is this: Standard terran play, even with no scouting, can make this push do zero damage. And if the push doeszero damage, it is virtually impossible, for the explained reason, to transition OUT of the all-in. I will say this again: Any thoughts on this situation? And does anyone have replays of this build doing little/no damage and still being able to transition into a stable midgame with no complete blunders by the terran player? I don't think Terran can go gas-less FE into 3CC and still get 2-3 tanks with siege, a bunker, and a full supply depot wall before 9min. I've seen vioLet and Stephano do this build time and time again, and even if there's tanks they tend to do enough damage to transition and win. Most games I've seen haven't actually ended with this push - it's more of a stepping-stone into the mid game. When you're executing the attack, you can actually drone up harder than you could if you were playing passive. Before you even start making roaches, you reach nearly full 2-base saturation with 2-3 gas. That means it only takes about 10 drones to fully saturate the gas and start 2 evo chambers. Often times, you can fully or partially saturate your third and begin a macro-hatch before you need to start making units. Naturally your tech is going to be a bit delayed (+1+1 and lair), but assuming you trade armies, take out a few depots/bunkers, and kill some SCVs, the delay in tech shouldn't hurt your mid-game.
You're completely ignoring what I am saying. You can never ever ever trade armies cost effectively with slow banelings, roaches, and un-upgraded speedlings vs marine tank medivac. I have other thoughts but I really can't go on until you address what I am saying.
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On June 20 2012 11:08 GleaM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 19:19 TangSC wrote:On June 19 2012 13:55 GleaM wrote:On June 16 2012 22:38 TangSC wrote:On June 16 2012 02:40 GleaM wrote:
If someone can post to me a pro game where the attack does no damage and the Z can still transition and win, without like a completely ridiculous blunder, I will change my opinion. As of now, however, there can be very little debate that this is all-in.
Building a nexus after 4gating PvZ or PvT doesn't mean that the 4gate isn't all-in. Building the nexus isn't a "transition" Hmm I don't think the 4gate analogy is a good one for the roach/ling/baneling. Usually a 4-gate is around 19-22 workers with 1 base, this is 2 base with about 35-38 workers and 2 gas (easily enough income to take a 3rd and continue droning with upgrades). Generally speaking, the bust has to do some pretty significant damage but the sheer size of it is almost enough to guarantee you do at least equalizing damage. You're stating the worst case scenario (that the attack somehow does no damage) proves that the build is all-in, but the definition of an all-in is not "an attack that must do damage to stay even," since most attacks fall into this category. Zerg operates differently from other races with this all-in for 2 reasons. One is that you're building units and not drones, which means that you are taking an active role in sacrificing economy for army. That is why early zerg attacks need to do damage, because you are cutting workers to execute the push. Also, you are using a unit that detonates when it attacks, so you need to follow that unit up with many many more units, which is costing more larvae, more gas, and cutting more workers. Furthermore, you are staying on hatchery tech, which is completely stunting your upgrades and later game tech. Let's paint a scenario here: Terran player on daybreak goes for standard 3 OC play into marine-tank. The high level player will, at 9 minutes, have 2 or 3 tanks in seige mode, at least one bunker, a partial or full supply depot wall, and many marines.This is with no scouting necessary. This is just the simple progression and idea behind the build. (One of the main builds at the moment, being used by the majority of the GSL/GSTL terrans, where they get a fast 3 OC, double ebay, tanks, then go into crazy marine/tank/medivac mode) All of that was without scouting. With proper scouting you could be facing more bunkers and a better defense. So a 3 OC terran can either choose to take a 3rd with a significant worker lead because they did not cut workers with their unit production, or they could keep their 3rd oc in their base and begin to push as the Z is putting up his 3rd on hatch tech, in which case the zerg is fighting marines and tanks and 2 medivacs by around 10 minutes with 1-1 and stim with speedlings, slow banelings, and roaches, with little to no creep spread (2 queens injecting and MAYBE a 3rd queen, only with Stephano's style)50 drones at the most (assuming the inject cycle after the tanks are scouted by the push) and 3 hatches (assuming the 3rd is finished) with 2 of them being injected (unless the 3rd queen in stephano's style leaves creep duty and ambles her way back there) I don't see any way to win a game from this spot as zerg, unless the terran player completely messes something up horribly badly and loses an army for nothing or his mouse dies or something. My point is this: Standard terran play, even with no scouting, can make this push do zero damage. And if the push doeszero damage, it is virtually impossible, for the explained reason, to transition OUT of the all-in. I will say this again: Any thoughts on this situation? And does anyone have replays of this build doing little/no damage and still being able to transition into a stable midgame with no complete blunders by the terran player? I don't think Terran can go gas-less FE into 3CC and still get 2-3 tanks with siege, a bunker, and a full supply depot wall before 9min. I've seen vioLet and Stephano do this build time and time again, and even if there's tanks they tend to do enough damage to transition and win. Most games I've seen haven't actually ended with this push - it's more of a stepping-stone into the mid game. When you're executing the attack, you can actually drone up harder than you could if you were playing passive. Before you even start making roaches, you reach nearly full 2-base saturation with 2-3 gas. That means it only takes about 10 drones to fully saturate the gas and start 2 evo chambers. Often times, you can fully or partially saturate your third and begin a macro-hatch before you need to start making units. Naturally your tech is going to be a bit delayed (+1+1 and lair), but assuming you trade armies, take out a few depots/bunkers, and kill some SCVs, the delay in tech shouldn't hurt your mid-game. You're completely ignoring what I am saying. You can never ever ever trade armies cost effectively with slow banelings, roaches, and un-upgraded speedlings vs marine tank medivac. I have other thoughts but I really can't go on until you address what I am saying.
And for the sake of argument, so we don't have to squabble about 3 OC builds, let's say its a 3rax marine tank build off of a gasless FE with no 3rd OC
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On June 20 2012 11:27 GleaM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 11:08 GleaM wrote:On June 19 2012 19:19 TangSC wrote:On June 19 2012 13:55 GleaM wrote:On June 16 2012 22:38 TangSC wrote:On June 16 2012 02:40 GleaM wrote:
If someone can post to me a pro game where the attack does no damage and the Z can still transition and win, without like a completely ridiculous blunder, I will change my opinion. As of now, however, there can be very little debate that this is all-in.
Building a nexus after 4gating PvZ or PvT doesn't mean that the 4gate isn't all-in. Building the nexus isn't a "transition" Hmm I don't think the 4gate analogy is a good one for the roach/ling/baneling. Usually a 4-gate is around 19-22 workers with 1 base, this is 2 base with about 35-38 workers and 2 gas (easily enough income to take a 3rd and continue droning with upgrades). Generally speaking, the bust has to do some pretty significant damage but the sheer size of it is almost enough to guarantee you do at least equalizing damage. You're stating the worst case scenario (that the attack somehow does no damage) proves that the build is all-in, but the definition of an all-in is not "an attack that must do damage to stay even," since most attacks fall into this category. Zerg operates differently from other races with this all-in for 2 reasons. One is that you're building units and not drones, which means that you are taking an active role in sacrificing economy for army. That is why early zerg attacks need to do damage, because you are cutting workers to execute the push. Also, you are using a unit that detonates when it attacks, so you need to follow that unit up with many many more units, which is costing more larvae, more gas, and cutting more workers. Furthermore, you are staying on hatchery tech, which is completely stunting your upgrades and later game tech. Let's paint a scenario here: Terran player on daybreak goes for standard 3 OC play into marine-tank. The high level player will, at 9 minutes, have 2 or 3 tanks in seige mode, at least one bunker, a partial or full supply depot wall, and many marines.This is with no scouting necessary. This is just the simple progression and idea behind the build. (One of the main builds at the moment, being used by the majority of the GSL/GSTL terrans, where they get a fast 3 OC, double ebay, tanks, then go into crazy marine/tank/medivac mode) All of that was without scouting. With proper scouting you could be facing more bunkers and a better defense. So a 3 OC terran can either choose to take a 3rd with a significant worker lead because they did not cut workers with their unit production, or they could keep their 3rd oc in their base and begin to push as the Z is putting up his 3rd on hatch tech, in which case the zerg is fighting marines and tanks and 2 medivacs by around 10 minutes with 1-1 and stim with speedlings, slow banelings, and roaches, with little to no creep spread (2 queens injecting and MAYBE a 3rd queen, only with Stephano's style)50 drones at the most (assuming the inject cycle after the tanks are scouted by the push) and 3 hatches (assuming the 3rd is finished) with 2 of them being injected (unless the 3rd queen in stephano's style leaves creep duty and ambles her way back there) I don't see any way to win a game from this spot as zerg, unless the terran player completely messes something up horribly badly and loses an army for nothing or his mouse dies or something. My point is this: Standard terran play, even with no scouting, can make this push do zero damage. And if the push doeszero damage, it is virtually impossible, for the explained reason, to transition OUT of the all-in. I will say this again: Any thoughts on this situation? And does anyone have replays of this build doing little/no damage and still being able to transition into a stable midgame with no complete blunders by the terran player? I don't think Terran can go gas-less FE into 3CC and still get 2-3 tanks with siege, a bunker, and a full supply depot wall before 9min. I've seen vioLet and Stephano do this build time and time again, and even if there's tanks they tend to do enough damage to transition and win. Most games I've seen haven't actually ended with this push - it's more of a stepping-stone into the mid game. When you're executing the attack, you can actually drone up harder than you could if you were playing passive. Before you even start making roaches, you reach nearly full 2-base saturation with 2-3 gas. That means it only takes about 10 drones to fully saturate the gas and start 2 evo chambers. Often times, you can fully or partially saturate your third and begin a macro-hatch before you need to start making units. Naturally your tech is going to be a bit delayed (+1+1 and lair), but assuming you trade armies, take out a few depots/bunkers, and kill some SCVs, the delay in tech shouldn't hurt your mid-game. You're completely ignoring what I am saying. You can never ever ever trade armies cost effectively with slow banelings, roaches, and un-upgraded speedlings vs marine tank medivac. I have other thoughts but I really can't go on until you address what I am saying. And for the sake of argument, so we don't have to squabble about 3 OC builds, let's say its a 3rax marine tank build off of a gasless FE with no 3rd OC
You actually could trade pretty well against a gasless FE into 3rax marine/tank (at least kill bunker/depots/scvs/1-2 tanks/lots of marines). You're overestimating the power of tanks in TvZ, I've seen vioLet and Stephano games where opponents open tanks and they engage at the natural and the game is equalized.
You also have the option to run a ling up the ramp, get shelled by a siege tank, and simply pull back before morphing banelings and be in a comparable economic position with a third base already started. If you morphed the banes, you might be a bit behind but it's certainly not over just because you opened with these units. I actually think if most players opened roach/ling/baneling like this defensively, they can move into 3-4 base play pretty easily/safely.
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For example, Stephano against MKP at recent mlg did win the game on entombed valley when he went for this strat and did 0 dammage.
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Fantastic guide, I like how you put the different pro's variations of it.
I'm gonna start trying this right away, I'm sick of Terran's going super greedy into super aggresive lately, it'll be nice to bring the aggression back to them >=D
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I'm still having trouble hiding this... because roaches (and lings) are slow basically, and if you head across the map with 9 roaches at that timing... it's pretty obvious.
also I find it rather vulnerable to hellion runbys... you really have to look out for that..
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On June 21 2012 00:46 Vanadiel wrote:
For example, Stephano against MKP at recent mlg did win the game on entombed valley when he went for this strat and did 0 dammage.
yep, basically MKP counters the build by walling off with rax only at the front so zerg has to retreat. that might probably be the easiest counter from the T side.
but since pretty much no T does that, this (semi) all in is super strong vs 1 rax FE. ^^
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On June 21 2012 07:45 Mahtasooma wrote:
I'm still having trouble hiding this... because roaches (and lings) are slow basically, and if you head across the map with 9 roaches at that timing... it's pretty obvious.
also I find it rather vulnerable to hellion runbys... you really have to look out for that..
You want to have your lings hidden on the other side of the map, ideally you can morph into banelings as soon as the roaches arrive. Hellion runbys shouldn't be too common, and if they are, reset your ling reinforcements and you should clean it up with queen/ling.
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This Build is an instant-win against Mech-Play since there is barely anything out to stop you
User was temp banned for this post.
User was temporarily forum banned for this post.
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On June 25 2012 11:26 frezMki wrote:
This Build is an instant-win against Mech-Play since there is barely anything out to stop you
no it's not.
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On June 25 2012 12:13 LgNKane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 11:26 frezMki wrote:
This Build is an instant-win against Mech-Play since there is barely anything out to stop you no it's not.
I see what he's saying, usually FE --> Hellion play is a bit more vulnerable to roach/ling and roach/ling/baneling builds. I don't think it's an instant win though.
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On June 12 2012 19:50 HaXXspetten wrote:Stopped reading right there.
Ah, spelling snobs.
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nice guide, thanks tang. i'll definitely be giving this a try.
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On June 26 2012 06:34 houffy wrote:
nice guide, thanks tang. i'll definitely be giving this a try.
I recommend mixing the vioLet and Stephano variations and also mixing between executing it as an all-in, and as a stepping stone into your choice of macro.
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Now I'm pretty inexperienced, and don't have much of a clue when it comes to thinking about this game - so I'm posting here for you guys to show me why my thinking is wrong.
Is it reasonable (or even possible) to mix-and-match openings and transitions? I really how Stephano's build transitions, but I really hate grabbing gas so early (easy to scout, makes attacking them awkward when they have that much of a heads-up). So I'm tempted to adapt DRG's version of the opening, because it gas after lings. But I really love getting that third behind the push - is it reasonable to use a DRG opening, but still get that early third, instead of the macro hatch?
Furthermore can I not go muta but continue into infester/ling/bling/ultra, quick hive - like stephanos? Do you need to go muta to deny drops if you open with DRG's but not Stephanos? Does DRG builds put the Terran in a position where they basically have to go for drop play, thus putting me in a position where I need mutas to deny?
Is the answer it to take a later gas with the stephano (perhaps at 23) opening and just keep the drones mining gas?
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EPT
