EPTHaha yes.
[G] DRG's Roach/Ling/Bane "All-in" (Or is it?) - Page 2
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
Haha yes. | ||
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thimius
Sweden29 Posts
 Symbol's version of this in the thread since i personally think he does it the best.PS. Great Read thanks for an awesome guide | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On June 12 2012 09:55 thimius wrote: I really feel like u should have Symbol's version of this in the thread since i personally think he does it the best.PS. Great Read thanks for an awesome guide You wouldn't happen to have replays or VODs of Symbol's version? | ||
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chuky500
France473 Posts
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67549/?set=6 http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67549/?set=7 http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67549/?set=8 | ||
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Echo_
48 Posts
It probably the most all-inish thing a Zerg can do in the early-midgame, yeah. However, if you watch the Stephano vs. MKP game on Entombed, you can clearly see how it isn't an all-in. Yes, he wasn't making drones. However, he now has units that aren't going to waste. They are useful for the later attack MKP did, and that was quite apparent when MKP finally did push out. I'm sure we've all seen the GIF by now of the 3 fungals going off while banelings crash into the marines. It is indeed a big deal that those units weren't drones. But if you look at the Zerg macro mechanic, droning behind the aggression catches you up fairly quickly. You now have units to keep yourself safe, and your only real cost is mins. It actually becomes a big deal that he made banelings because of that. His transition is into ling/infestor with upgrades. Upgrades aren't deterred by the build, only infestor count. ~2 infestors worth of gas were cut into. Lings are free, especially on the 3 base economy that he was fully at only 1-2 minutes after the "all-in." It definitely puts him at a disadvantage, but it is not game over by any means. He can actually feel safer to drone up and tech up. If the units are lost, I think that's another story. | ||
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Mahtasooma
Germany475 Posts
So the only difference is like the above poster mentionend: your units aren't sitting around waiting for a push (that's maybe not even coming) and thus going to waste, but they hit the T base very soon after they are created and are virtually bound to do some damage, if not end the game outright. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
DRG's recent victory over Alecia (Protoss) in the MLG Spring Championship Stopped reading right there. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
That's a funny reason to stop reading. Why would you deprive yourself of additional builds because of a typo? | ||
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
It's a build that punishes terrans that try to go either 3 orbital double upgrade or 3 orbital banshee with cut marine production. You can defend this with tank openings or with mass bio openings. It's just a good build none the less though since you dont really need to deal that much damage and you can often times head back if you see tanks. And it almost allways forces scvs off the natural minerals for a good while. | ||
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transience
Belgium74 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
I knew it looked wrong...haha, updated. Thanks! | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On June 12 2012 21:38 transience wrote: Tang, what would you say is the most important difference between this build and the Roach/Ling/Baneling "Big Bust" build you wrote a guide about some time ago? Would you recommend one over the other? What sort of scouting information would lead you to choose this build rather than the other one? The "Big Bust" comes much earlier (8:20) and is actually a smaller push (8 roaches, 6 banelings, 20+ zerglings). It much more all-in to attack this early, but the timing works well against tank and banshee expands. | ||
Vanadiel
France961 Posts
Thanks! | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
I really love that you are comparing different variations of this build across many players. Would you mind if I add a strategy section in DRG's fanclub and link to these guides credits to you of course.  | ||
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mYiKane
Canada1772 Posts
On June 12 2012 18:17 Echo_ wrote: I think the fact it is not truly an all-in is pretty apparent when watching games such as the ones at MLG you refer to (Stephano vs. MKP on Entombed is a great example). It probably the most all-inish thing a Zerg can do in the early-midgame, yeah. However, if you watch the Stephano vs. MKP game on Entombed, you can clearly see how it isn't an all-in. Yes, he wasn't making drones. However, he now has units that aren't going to waste. They are useful for the later attack MKP did, and that was quite apparent when MKP finally did push out. I'm sure we've all seen the GIF by now of the 3 fungals going off while banelings crash into the marines. It is indeed a big deal that those units weren't drones. But if you look at the Zerg macro mechanic, droning behind the aggression catches you up fairly quickly. You now have units to keep yourself safe, and your only real cost is mins. It actually becomes a big deal that he made banelings because of that. His transition is into ling/infestor with upgrades. Upgrades aren't deterred by the build, only infestor count. ~2 infestors worth of gas were cut into. Lings are free, especially on the 3 base economy that he was fully at only 1-2 minutes after the "all-in." It definitely puts him at a disadvantage, but it is not game over by any means. He can actually feel safer to drone up and tech up. If the units are lost, I think that's another story. agreed. if you watch stephano's vods/replays you can see that he uses this build as a standard in zvt (almost every other game probably). even if he does no damage whatsoever with it he can still win the game, and if he catches a greedy terran offguard sometimes he can win outright. | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On June 13 2012 02:09 neoghaleon55 wrote: This is great, Tang! I really love that you are comparing different variations of this build across many players. Would you mind if I add a strategy section in DRG's fanclub and link to these guides credits to you of course. Not at all, I'd really appreciate that :D | ||
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
On June 13 2012 02:02 Vanadiel wrote: Really nice guide, but I have a small question, is there any example of this big roach/Banneling bust but starting with a 4 Queen build with delayed gas? Thanks! You could absolutely do 4queen and then gas, and aim for a 44 warren and 2nd gas all the same. Maybe get the second gas a bit earlier, but it's definitely an option. You'll have a macro advantage of an earlier 3rd and lots of creep, but also it also means your push will have a smaller chance of an outright victory. | ||
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KhAmun
United States1005 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:14 TangSC wrote: You could absolutely do 4queen and then gas, and aim for a 44 warren and 2nd gas all the same. Maybe get the second gas a bit earlier, but it's definitely an option. You'll have a macro advantage of an earlier 3rd and lots of creep, but also it also means your push will have a smaller chance of an outright victory. I'll look for vods later, but when i originally saw this build DRG was using a gasless build with it. He went gasless until about 36-40, then triple gas and stayed on those gas until first round of drones after the attack. He also got 4 queens straight away, as that was the point of the quesion lol. | ||
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CheyRa
United Kingdom62 Posts
Just a quick question though, is this build viable if i scout gas from the terran at my 13 scout? Most of the time i see a full wall-off which means either proxy rax or 1 rax CC however if i get in and see gas is this still a viable way to proceed? Cheers! | ||
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