• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:52
CEST 14:52
KST 21:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 225ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon325.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes38Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)99
StarCraft 2
General
ZOWIE DIVINA preview MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Server Blocker
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
Snow On New ASL S22 Map, Zerg Nerf ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5881 users

[G] DRG's Roach/Ling/Bane "All-in" (Or is it?) - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
June 12 2012 00:47 GMT
#21
On June 12 2012 09:37 Walitgon wrote:
Show nested quote +
[B]On June 12 2012 08:35 TangSC wrote:
Updated, thanks - I hate typeos


I truly hope this is intended to be irony!

Haha yes.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
thimius
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden29 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-12 00:59:21
June 12 2012 00:55 GMT
#22
I really feel like u should have (Z)Symbol's version of this in the thread since i personally think he does it the best.

PS. Great Read thanks for an awesome guide
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
June 12 2012 01:07 GMT
#23
I really love this guide and was wondering how to do this sort of timing push ever since MLG. We saw Stephano using this a lot and I think its a great way to be an aggressive Zerg. Its about time we had some timings where we can be really aggressive and "swarmy" without having to sac total economy and be considered "all-in". To anyone who voted that its really all-in, it might be highly-aggressive but as we saw, its very possible to transition out of it into standard play.
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
June 12 2012 01:56 GMT
#24
On June 12 2012 09:55 thimius wrote:
I really feel like u should have (Z)Symbol's version of this in the thread since i personally think he does it the best.

PS. Great Read thanks for an awesome guide

You wouldn't happen to have replays or VODs of Symbol's version?
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
June 12 2012 02:22 GMT
#25
He did it 3 times in the GSTL. I don't know if there are replays but there are premium vods.
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67549/?set=6
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67549/?set=7
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gstls2/vod/67549/?set=8
Echo_
Profile Joined November 2010
48 Posts
June 12 2012 09:17 GMT
#26
I think the fact it is not truly an all-in is pretty apparent when watching games such as the ones at MLG you refer to (Stephano vs. MKP on Entombed is a great example).

It probably the most all-inish thing a Zerg can do in the early-midgame, yeah.

However, if you watch the Stephano vs. MKP game on Entombed, you can clearly see how it isn't an all-in.

Yes, he wasn't making drones. However, he now has units that aren't going to waste. They are useful for the later attack MKP did, and that was quite apparent when MKP finally did push out. I'm sure we've all seen the GIF by now of the 3 fungals going off while banelings crash into the marines.

It is indeed a big deal that those units weren't drones. But if you look at the Zerg macro mechanic, droning behind the aggression catches you up fairly quickly. You now have units to keep yourself safe, and your only real cost is mins. It actually becomes a big deal that he made banelings because of that. His transition is into ling/infestor with upgrades. Upgrades aren't deterred by the build, only infestor count. ~2 infestors worth of gas were cut into. Lings are free, especially on the 3 base economy that he was fully at only 1-2 minutes after the "all-in."

It definitely puts him at a disadvantage, but it is not game over by any means. He can actually feel safer to drone up and tech up. If the units are lost, I think that's another story.
IMMvp / AcerMMA / NSHjjakji / MarineKingPrime / STBomber / SKTFantasy / STXINnoVation / KTFlash
Mahtasooma
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany475 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-12 13:24:41
June 12 2012 10:12 GMT
#27
Well you guys have to remember that the DRG version starts making units when you should start making units anyway, because if you see T moving out, you can only build so many units in one or two cycles anyway (ret dies to this all the time as he overestimates the reaction time zerg has when a push is coming, even if scouted immediately). You can't be building only drones till he pushes out at 12 minutes for example because you simply will not have enough stuff when he's at your base (and if you "catch" him sieging up at your base it's too late anyway because you want to hit in the middle of the map). This might work for pushes until the 8min mark, but not beyond that.

So the only difference is like the above poster mentionend: your units aren't sitting around waiting for a push (that's maybe not even coming) and thus going to waste, but they hit the T base very soon after they are created and are virtually bound to do some damage, if not end the game outright.
http://twitch.tv/mahtasooma
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
June 12 2012 10:50 GMT
#28
DRG's recent victory over Alecia (Protoss) in the MLG Spring Championship

Stopped reading right there.
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
June 12 2012 11:17 GMT
#29
On June 12 2012 19:50 HaXXspetten wrote:
Show nested quote +
DRG's recent victory over Alecia (Protoss) in the MLG Spring Championship

Stopped reading right there.


That's a funny reason to stop reading.

Why would you deprive yourself of additional builds because of a typo?
Cereal
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-12 12:16:13
June 12 2012 12:12 GMT
#30
Yep, this is not an all in. It's a timing push that requires you to make a small ammount of damage to the oponent, As long as you see to it that you can defend banshees then there is nothing that can punch a hole in this build really hard. If you see tanks you simply drone for a while and then time your defense for the 2 base tank or take a 4th for the 3 base tank.

It's a build that punishes terrans that try to go either 3 orbital double upgrade or 3 orbital banshee with cut marine production. You can defend this with tank openings or with mass bio openings. It's just a good build none the less though since you dont really need to deal that much damage and you can often times head back if you see tanks. And it almost allways forces scvs off the natural minerals for a good while.
transience
Profile Joined February 2011
Belgium74 Posts
June 12 2012 12:38 GMT
#31
Tang, what would you say is the most important difference between this build and the Roach/Ling/Baneling "Big Bust" build you wrote a guide about some time ago? Would you recommend one over the other? What sort of scouting information would lead you to choose this build rather than the other one?
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
June 12 2012 14:28 GMT
#32
On June 12 2012 19:50 HaXXspetten wrote:
Show nested quote +
DRG's recent victory over Alecia (Protoss) in the MLG Spring Championship

Stopped reading right there.

I knew it looked wrong...haha, updated. Thanks!
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
June 12 2012 14:31 GMT
#33
On June 12 2012 21:38 transience wrote:
Tang, what would you say is the most important difference between this build and the Roach/Ling/Baneling "Big Bust" build you wrote a guide about some time ago? Would you recommend one over the other? What sort of scouting information would lead you to choose this build rather than the other one?

The "Big Bust" comes much earlier (8:20) and is actually a smaller push (8 roaches, 6 banelings, 20+ zerglings). It much more all-in to attack this early, but the timing works well against tank and banshee expands.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
June 12 2012 17:02 GMT
#34
Really nice guide, but I have a small question, is there any example of this big roach/Banneling bust but starting with a 4 Queen build with delayed gas?

Thanks!
neoghaleon55
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7435 Posts
June 12 2012 17:09 GMT
#35
This is great, Tang!
I really love that you are comparing different variations of this build across many players.


Would you mind if I add a strategy section in DRG's fanclub and link to these guides
credits to you of course.
moo...for DRG
mYiKane
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1772 Posts
June 12 2012 17:12 GMT
#36
On June 12 2012 18:17 Echo_ wrote:
I think the fact it is not truly an all-in is pretty apparent when watching games such as the ones at MLG you refer to (Stephano vs. MKP on Entombed is a great example).

It probably the most all-inish thing a Zerg can do in the early-midgame, yeah.

However, if you watch the Stephano vs. MKP game on Entombed, you can clearly see how it isn't an all-in.

Yes, he wasn't making drones. However, he now has units that aren't going to waste. They are useful for the later attack MKP did, and that was quite apparent when MKP finally did push out. I'm sure we've all seen the GIF by now of the 3 fungals going off while banelings crash into the marines.

It is indeed a big deal that those units weren't drones. But if you look at the Zerg macro mechanic, droning behind the aggression catches you up fairly quickly. You now have units to keep yourself safe, and your only real cost is mins. It actually becomes a big deal that he made banelings because of that. His transition is into ling/infestor with upgrades. Upgrades aren't deterred by the build, only infestor count. ~2 infestors worth of gas were cut into. Lings are free, especially on the 3 base economy that he was fully at only 1-2 minutes after the "all-in."

It definitely puts him at a disadvantage, but it is not game over by any means. He can actually feel safer to drone up and tech up. If the units are lost, I think that's another story.


agreed.

if you watch stephano's vods/replays you can see that he uses this build as a standard in zvt (almost every other game probably). even if he does no damage whatsoever with it he can still win the game, and if he catches a greedy terran offguard sometimes he can win outright.

TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
June 12 2012 20:13 GMT
#37
On June 13 2012 02:09 neoghaleon55 wrote:
This is great, Tang!
I really love that you are comparing different variations of this build across many players.


Would you mind if I add a strategy section in DRG's fanclub and link to these guides
credits to you of course.

Not at all, I'd really appreciate that :D
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
TangSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada1866 Posts
June 12 2012 20:14 GMT
#38
On June 13 2012 02:02 Vanadiel wrote:
Really nice guide, but I have a small question, is there any example of this big roach/Banneling bust but starting with a 4 Queen build with delayed gas?

Thanks!

You could absolutely do 4queen and then gas, and aim for a 44 warren and 2nd gas all the same. Maybe get the second gas a bit earlier, but it's definitely an option. You'll have a macro advantage of an earlier 3rd and lots of creep, but also it also means your push will have a smaller chance of an outright victory.
Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com
KhAmun
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1005 Posts
June 12 2012 20:21 GMT
#39
On June 13 2012 05:14 TangSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 02:02 Vanadiel wrote:
Really nice guide, but I have a small question, is there any example of this big roach/Banneling bust but starting with a 4 Queen build with delayed gas?

Thanks!

You could absolutely do 4queen and then gas, and aim for a 44 warren and 2nd gas all the same. Maybe get the second gas a bit earlier, but it's definitely an option. You'll have a macro advantage of an earlier 3rd and lots of creep, but also it also means your push will have a smaller chance of an outright victory.

I'll look for vods later, but when i originally saw this build DRG was using a gasless build with it.
He went gasless until about 36-40, then triple gas and stayed on those gas until first round of drones after the attack.
He also got 4 queens straight away, as that was the point of the quesion lol.
CheyRa
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom62 Posts
June 12 2012 20:34 GMT
#40
Thanks for a very well made guide tang, i feel like this build provides a very safe platform to take a third and transition into the late game and also an opportunity to win the game outright.

Just a quick question though, is this build viable if i scout gas from the terran at my 13 scout? Most of the time i see a full wall-off which means either proxy rax or 1 rax CC however if i get in and see gas is this still a viable way to proceed?

Cheers!
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
11:00
GSL CK #5 - Day 1
Ryung 358
SHIN 127
Classic106
CranKy Ducklings SOOP91
herO (SOOP)81
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko410
Ryung 358
SHIN 127
Classic 106
herO (SOOP) 81
Rex 53
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 1919
Shuttle 1562
Jaedong 1467
Soulkey 576
firebathero 500
BeSt 479
Soma 445
EffOrt 296
Light 276
Mini 273
[ Show more ]
Larva 261
actioN 202
Zeus 180
Snow 180
ggaemo 131
Rush 106
Pusan 103
ZerO 63
hero 62
Sharp 58
ToSsGirL 50
Sea.KH 50
[sc1f]eonzerg 47
soO 40
Free 37
910 32
Bale 30
scan(afreeca) 28
Aegong 26
Movie 17
sorry 16
Terrorterran 15
Barracks 11
HiyA 11
Noble 9
Icarus 5
Dota 2
Gorgc3143
Dendi1381
XaKoH 710
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2158
kRYSTAL_61
Other Games
singsing1878
B2W.Neo566
Happy422
Pyrionflax266
Liquid`VortiX86
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick25132
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1129
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 1069
TaKeTV258
Other Games
BasetradeTV210
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream144
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2135
League of Legends
• Nemesis981
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
11h 8m
WardiTV Weekly
22h 8m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 11h
The PondCast
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
RSL Revival
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.