EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 160
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
It doesn't have to do with the keyboard. Pressing two keys with alternating fingers it will be faster than pressing one key with one finger on any keyboard. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
What is frame-perfect coordination? | ||
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LonelyClock
Canada29 Posts
Hmm after watching the video it seems that this is directed more towards people who just are unable to play quickly or move their hand quickly. By just changing a few hotkeys from the left side to the right (I'm a righty) nothing is out of my reach. Even more so as a piano player it is very uncomfortable to have a tight spacing and I actually enjoy having a range of motion. Many issues covered in the video like using the thumb and reaching for keys just seems like things that people that don't use the thumb or many ranges of motion seem to have. And switching from the left side of the keyboard to the right side imo seems to have no effect except to help people who don't use their thumb properly, to actually start using it. Even tho I have my doubts I am still interested but this seems much more for beginner to medium speed players. What would your projected change in apm be if I did this "core" for about 2 months (currently 300 apm, and that's not registering the f keys i use for camera). | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Sanddbox is one of the higher APM players who have switched (I believe somewhere around 300) and it took him about 2 weeks to recover from the change. I do not know what he's playing at now. The issue with the left side of the keyboard is that there is so little do for the thumb. The spacebar occupies most of the thumb's range of motion and the alt key is even more of a reach under the hand than TheCore in many circumstances. The advantage of using the thumb for modifiers is that it frees up the rest of the hand to quickly and comfortably press a larger combination of buttons. Consider how many Ctrl+Shift+key combinations are available to a player on each side of the keyboard. The number is far less on the left side than the right side. This is the most apparent example, but holds true with Shift and Ctrl as well. I'm sorry I don't have an estimate on APM increase. | ||
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thayneq
96 Posts
I see your point, but I disagree on a couple points. The analogy that comes to mind is regular typing speed with QWERTY vs. Dvorak. Can you type really fast on qwerty? Absolutely. Can you type fast on Dvorak? Not without learning it. Is the maximum typing speed faster on dvorak? Definitely. Although you can learn an inefficient way to use your fingers, and become very good at it, at some point the speed becomes dominated by the speed of your individual fingers, which is directly proportional to the distance they have to travel between keystrokes. The same holds true for other activities like rubik's cube or guitar (or piano). The more you can optimize how far each finger has to travel, the faster your ceiling becomes. It's all theoretical of course, because your actual APM benefit will largely depend on how much time you invest practicing it, again like any other activity. The other major benefit here is ergonomics. TheCore is way more friendly on your wrists and joints than any other hotkey layout I've tried. So much so that I'm considering using a variant of TheCore for FPS games as well. If you are already good at SC2, and are happy with your play-style and don't want to improve further, than this probably isn't for you. After all, switching to a new hotkey layout won't reap instant rewards. The skill in a game like SC2 is largely dominated by simple time practicing. A better hotkey layout is more of an optimization. Personally I've benefited greatly from it, and I'm 100% sold. | ||
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GoodGam3
United States6 Posts
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MilExo
South Africa139 Posts
On March 27 2013 07:55 Shikyo wrote: I don't know about what kind of keyboards you guys are using, but double tapping really isn't slower than using 2 seperate keys unless you have like frame-perfect coordination(Only index + middle fingers might have that). Also remember that you don't need to double-tap in many cases, but you can just keep you finger down if your repeat rate and delay is set properly. This obviously works better for some key combinations than others. | ||
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Stow.Wif
France67 Posts
On March 27 2013 14:15 thayneq wrote: @LonelyClock I see your point, but I disagree on a couple points. The analogy that comes to mind is regular typing speed with QWERTY vs. Dvorak. Can you type really fast on qwerty? Absolutely. Can you type fast on Dvorak? Not without learning it. Is the maximum typing speed faster on dvorak? Definitely. To be honest, I think his point is that the idea of limiting hand-motion in The Core may not be an improvement for everyone. Especially for people who already are trained in tasks using hand motion over the keyboard. Is is possible that his layout is not optimized, but that in general, he will be more efficient with a more spread out hotkey system. This makes sense for me. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 27 2013 08:00 JaKaTaK wrote: @Shikyo It doesn't have to do with the keyboard. Pressing two keys with alternating fingers it will be faster than pressing one key with one finger on any keyboard. It definitely has to do with the keyboard, my doubletap on the topre is like 10 times faster than on a membrane. It's faster in a vacuum - In an actual game my doubletaps are always my maximum doubletap speed while I definitely cannot go between like 5 different keys on 5 different fingers as fast. It of course depends on the finger, thumb for example is quite hopeless. | ||
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thayneq
96 Posts
On March 27 2013 19:14 Shikyo wrote: It definitely has to do with the keyboard, my doubletap on the topre is like 10 times faster than on a membrane. It's faster in a vacuum - In an actual game my doubletaps are always my maximum doubletap speed while I definitely cannot go between like 5 different keys on 5 different fingers as fast. It of course depends on the finger, thumb for example is quite hopeless. I don't know how to say this without sounding mean, but you are wrong. This isn't even debatable, it's just fact. Put four fingers on the keyboard. Now press them all at once. You just pressed four keys in the time it would take one finger to press one key. Now if you slightly roll your fingers, you can stagger the keys and it's incredibly fast. This doesn't have anything to do with a keyboard, it's just physics. This will always be faster than using one finger to actuate a key twice, simply because while your muscles are relaxing up off the key from the first press, your second finger can already be on its way down. Here's another example. Open up a text editor and see how fast you can type 100 letters with just one finger, then 100 letters with two fingers, 3, 4, etc. The results should be obvious. | ||
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LonelyClock
Canada29 Posts
On March 27 2013 18:00 Stow.Wif wrote: To be honest, I think his point is that the idea of limiting hand-motion in The Core may not be an improvement for everyone. Especially for people who already are trained in tasks using hand motion over the keyboard. Is is possible that his layout is not optimized, but that in general, he will be more efficient with a more spread out hotkey system. This makes sense for me. Yes I think this is more the case where having played piano for a long time hitting "control"+ "0" at the same time is actually pretty comfortable for me and reaching all the f1-f6 keys (my cameras) while pressing "v" (for inject) with my thumb is very suitable for me since I'm used to having my thumb having to go under my other fingers. I guess 15 years of piano has made like the spacing of the keys instead of having no hand motion whatsoever. I also don't think I will have any wrists pains since most of the pains that people experience is because of poor posture. I guess probably since this hotkey layout does use a small range of motion it probably will not be suitable for me and I don't want to spend a month or two learning a hotkey layout that is inferior for my personal taste. Thanks for the feedback but I'll stick to my hotkey layout unless I realize something completely drastic. Plus having my hands jump ALL around the keyboard looks cool  | ||
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thayneq
96 Posts
Whoa I just had a really cool (or really stupid) idea! How about hooking up a MIDI keyboard to your PC, and then binding piano keys to starcraft hotkeys?! Then you can put your piano skills to the test! That would be pretty killer, especially if you bind them in such a way that common key combinations are common musical chords or arpeggios! I guess the downsides are the piano is really big, and probably not very useful for one hand. It would get quite a few laughs at a major competition if you show up with your piano and mouse. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
"Starcraft: music of champions". | ||
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thayneq
96 Posts
Think of your APM with a guitar!!! | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
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thayneq
96 Posts
pojjjjjjjjjjjjjjj pojjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj pojjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj ;-) | ||
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thayneq
96 Posts
How can the foot pedal help? It would be cool if we could replace the mouse....maybe for starting out, you can set up macros for various notes/chords. Not tournament legal, but would be a really fun project. | ||
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Dragnmn
Netherlands52 Posts
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
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