Useful Zerg Tips for the May 10th Balance Update - Page 4

On May 11 2012 02:39 Zelniq wrote:

well while getting lair you can only make queens 1 at a time, unless you went 3 hatch, which takes a while and time is of the essence in a build like this. however costing only minerals is nice, except you do need a total of 550 gas mined for nydus, lair, speed. sounds iffy. maybe you can win some games vs weak opponents or if you catch them doing a stargate build, i dunno

On May 10 2012 16:13 Zelniq wrote:
ZvT:
[*] Queens will be quite a bit better at pushing back a hellion 'contain' (so you can safely spread tumors). If you're worried this somehow makes hellions a bad opening, read this.

So queen vs. hellion I wanted to talk about and I think some people think hellion openings are ruined but they are far from it. Here is the thing, I watch so many pro ZvT's that they pretty much all play out the same. The best koreans are doing hellion expand into double CC double engi bay and are completely safe. If zerg counters with roach bane it's just not nearly effective as a hellion/marauder timing and with your rax you can make 2 marauders and be super safe or cut corners and hope the zerg doesn't all-in which they usually don't. The main reason why terran has an advantage is because of mule. If zerg all-ins, both races will be even on workers but terran will have double or even triple mule to allow them to overkill bunker production. So you have a super safe terran getting way ahead in economy and upgrades. If zerg wants to keep up with upgrades they can go double evo but the lings they are using still won't be effective for sometime because of the hellions. Now that I explained that, I want to discuss the outcome of all this.

You will normally see in a game like 4 hellions vs 1-2 queens + spine crawler. Usually the hellions seeing this, will just hover out side the natural denying creep, this WON'T change. The biggest difference might be zergs cutting corners and getting 1 queen + spine or just 2 queens but queens are still slower than hellions on creep and run bys will still be incredibly powerful. Terrans might just go for 6-8 hellions as an opener instead of 4 to increase their chances of damage. Hellion run by's have the potential to roast all your drones at the cost of 4 hellions but it's worth it because you gain scouting information and the zerg WILL lose mining time even if no drones die and are pulled and split perfectly.

just my 2cents coming from a masters zerg perspective.

On May 11 2012 05:03 Gamegene wrote:




This really has nothing to do with the hellion opening. It's stating that since this power build exists, there's no reason for anyone to complain as long as they do this build cause it's just so fucking good. It's filled with so much garbage bias such as "just not nearly effective as a hellion marauder timing"; (to paraphrase): "Mules and bunkers mean you can hold everything, and if you try to keep up in upgrades it doesn't work because hellions are really good against zerglings."

It doesn't talk about hellion openings in general, it's just an out of place explanation of why one follow up to the hellion opening is so fucking good and why Zerg can't do anything about it.



Then he gives an obvious statement about about how hellions aren't going to want to poke up the ramp or choke to get hit by the static defense, and then gives a nonsensical argument that the changes doesn't matter since Terran players can just run in and kill all the Drones, and that somehow it's okay even if you lose the hellions for no drone kills (which is complete bullshit).

Why are you putting this stupid post into a very informative thread?

On May 11 2012 05:27 Big J wrote:
He puts it in, because people would bring it up no matter what.

And what you say has nothing to do with hellions, has in fact a lot to do with hellions:
-) Hellions are what "forces" Zerg to go roach/bling instead of the earlier, more costefficient ling/bling for an allin.
-) Hellions are what give you most of the needed scouting information:
- fast 3base
- 2 base tech
- 2 base allin
-) Hellion runbys, mass hellion allins etc. are not affected by a lot, because they will still do nearly as much damage as now (it's going to be like 2 more queen hits when you runby - that's like 16 damage more), so zerg still has to be prepared for those

On May 11 2012 05:49 Gamegene wrote:


zzzzz.

Unfortunately most of emcsk's reddit post does not have anything to do with what you just said, even though what you said is true.