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The build is essentially just a super greedy double 4 gate. He used it in the game the OP mentioned as part of his spoiler, because he knows that his opponent plays a very greedy ZvP style.
You build no units other than the initial 1 zealot 2 stalkers (which you use to harass and make them build a few lings and/or spine(s), and you don't even start warping in until the 8 gate is entirely set up, maybe a few sentries here and there to begin building energy, because you won't have a ton of sentires so you need to start building energy quickly.
The beauty of this build against this particular ZvP style, is that since you're just banking money for awhile, you don't need as many probes because you'll be dumping those excess minerals into zealots.
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it's a nice build, he seems to take a fast 3rd instead of all-inning as the 8th gateway gives you that needed production if necessary.
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On February 28 2012 01:54 Lorch wrote:
VOD won't be available for free till later this week/early next week. If you purchased the mlg winter arena you can't find it in game 2 or 3 between ret and huk on metalopolis, I think it's winners round 3 or 4.
Gonna try this build next time I ladder, though I can't see myself comfortably open 15 nexus/15 forge. The special part about this is when it hits, I think unless you know your opponent is doing this exact build you shouldn't be able to hold this when you do gas less 3 base as zerg, unless you can magically deny any proxy pylon.
I was curious about the exact build and did a replay analysis of the vod for you. This build is pretty accurate, I paused several times to make sure. He actually did a 9 gate in this game you've been mentioning.
Game is between Huk and Ret on Mettalopolis. Protoss spawns at 12 o'clock, Zerg spawns at 3 o'clock:
9 pylon at the bottom of ramp
16 Nexus (spending all chrono boost on probes)
16 forge
16 gate
17-18 2nd pylon, double gas, cannon at choke
20 cyber core
23 zealot
27 3rd pylon
30 begin warp gate research / stalker #1 built
*sends zealot towards the watchtower between him and the zerg, pushes the zealot towards the third base to begin harass*
34 Stalker #2 joins in on harass with 1st stalker and zealot
37 starts +1 weapons @ forge (all chrono is now switched to this)
38 8 gateways are built as probe production stops, 2 probes are pulled from gas, making 4 total probes on gas
*pushes towards the edge of the zerg creep with 2 initial stalkers and one zealot, + 5 additional warped in zealots and a probe for a pylon, places a pylon as close to the edge of creep as possible, begins attack as +1 weapons finishes, first three warp-ins are pure zealot, 4th warp in consists of 3 sentries, 2 stalkers, and the rest zealots, fifth warp in is all zealots, he then begins to mix in stalkers along with zealots (i assume he puts probes back onto gas at some point but I'm not sure when, and he never takes his 3rd and 4th gas.*
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You forgot the Gate. 16 Gate before Forge?
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On February 28 2012 02:40 BankTank wrote:
You forgot the Gate. 16 Gate before Forge?
Ya, fixed now, in this game the gate is after the forge, I've seen him do it the other way around though.
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Holy crap thank you Lupita <3 Much appreciated.
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On February 28 2012 02:43 Lorch wrote:
Holy crap thank you Lupita <3 Much appreciated.
Np. I want to try it, but I'm kinda scared, because it 100% dies to a roach ling all in if you don't see it coming.
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On February 28 2012 03:09 TheHansBecker wrote:
This is probably a dumb question, but should you try to block the Zerg's expansion with a pylon block or not?
He does not try to block the expo, he doesn't even send a probe out until after the forge is down. I guess you could, but it might mess with some of the timings.
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edited my post after watching it again, I messed up the gas timings. Should be 100% correct now.
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As a Zerg player, I would like to know the best way to respond to a protoss player going forge FFE. With a build like this, the typical 3 base zerg response would just get stomped, but if you prepare for this and they aren't doing it, it seems like you would out-macroed. What is the best way for a zerg player to handle this?
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On February 28 2012 02:36 Lupita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 01:54 Lorch wrote:
VOD won't be available for free till later this week/early next week. If you purchased the mlg winter arena you can't find it in game 2 or 3 between ret and huk on metalopolis, I think it's winners round 3 or 4.
Gonna try this build next time I ladder, though I can't see myself comfortably open 15 nexus/15 forge. The special part about this is when it hits, I think unless you know your opponent is doing this exact build you shouldn't be able to hold this when you do gas less 3 base as zerg, unless you can magically deny any proxy pylon. I was curious about the exact build and did a replay analysis of the vod for you. This build is pretty accurate, I paused several times to make sure. He actually did a 9 gate in this game you've been mentioning. Game is between Huk and Ret on Mettalopolis. Protoss spawns at 12 o'clock, Zerg spawns at 3 o'clock: 9 pylon at the bottom of ramp 16 Nexus (spending all chrono boost on probes) 16 forge 16 gate 17-18 2nd pylon, double gas, cannon at choke, & 2nd pylon 20 cyber core 23 zealot 27 3rd pylon 30 begin warp gate research / stalker #1 built *sends zealot towards the watchtower between him and the zerg, pushes the zealot towards the third base to begin harass* 34 Stalker #2 joins in on harass with 1st stalker and zealot 37 starts +1 weapons @ forge (all chrono is now switched to this) 38 8 gateways are built as probe production stops, 2 probes are pulled from gas, making 4 total probes on gas *pushes towards the edge of the zerg creep with 2 initial stalkers and one zealot, + 5 additional warped in zealots and a probe for a pylon, places a pylon as close to the edge of creep as possible, begins attack as +1 weapons finishes, first three warp-ins are pure zealot, 4th warp in consists of 3 sentries, 2 stalkers, and the rest zealots, fifth warp in is all zealots, he then begins to mix in stalkers along with zealots (i assume he puts probes back onto gas at some point but I'm not sure when, and he never takes his 3rd and 4th gas.*
Thanks for this 
Just tried it first time in a clanwar and won instantly lol.
A timing at which minute you attack with how many units would be awesome to practise this build if you have one
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On February 28 2012 04:55 Flaiker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 02:36 Lupita wrote:On February 28 2012 01:54 Lorch wrote:
VOD won't be available for free till later this week/early next week. If you purchased the mlg winter arena you can't find it in game 2 or 3 between ret and huk on metalopolis, I think it's winners round 3 or 4.
Gonna try this build next time I ladder, though I can't see myself comfortably open 15 nexus/15 forge. The special part about this is when it hits, I think unless you know your opponent is doing this exact build you shouldn't be able to hold this when you do gas less 3 base as zerg, unless you can magically deny any proxy pylon. I was curious about the exact build and did a replay analysis of the vod for you. This build is pretty accurate, I paused several times to make sure. He actually did a 9 gate in this game you've been mentioning. Game is between Huk and Ret on Mettalopolis. Protoss spawns at 12 o'clock, Zerg spawns at 3 o'clock: 9 pylon at the bottom of ramp 16 Nexus (spending all chrono boost on probes) 16 forge 16 gate 17-18 2nd pylon, double gas, cannon at choke, & 2nd pylon 20 cyber core 23 zealot 27 3rd pylon 30 begin warp gate research / stalker #1 built *sends zealot towards the watchtower between him and the zerg, pushes the zealot towards the third base to begin harass* 34 Stalker #2 joins in on harass with 1st stalker and zealot 37 starts +1 weapons @ forge (all chrono is now switched to this) 38 8 gateways are built as probe production stops, 2 probes are pulled from gas, making 4 total probes on gas *pushes towards the edge of the zerg creep with 2 initial stalkers and one zealot, + 5 additional warped in zealots and a probe for a pylon, places a pylon as close to the edge of creep as possible, begins attack as +1 weapons finishes, first three warp-ins are pure zealot, 4th warp in consists of 3 sentries, 2 stalkers, and the rest zealots, fifth warp in is all zealots, he then begins to mix in stalkers along with zealots (i assume he puts probes back onto gas at some point but I'm not sure when, and he never takes his 3rd and 4th gas.* Thanks for this Just tried it first time in a clanwar and won instantly lol. A timing at which minute you attack with how many units would be awesome to practise this build if you have one
In the VOD in question, Huk attacks with 6 zealots, 2 stalkers, and his proxy pylon up next to the creep at the zerg base @ 8:15, and then proceeds to warrp in a round of zealots as he attacks.
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Have tried this out. Works perfectly against people going mass mutalisk.
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Beacuse of being close air huk is forced to attack between all the base's instead of specifically at one base. sending zealots to the third and up into the main is a risky investment 3 is enough to take out lings but you need to focus down drones and keep them together so lings don't get a surround. if you can keep them holding hands or even better keeping the lings on one side of the zealots hand holding they'll be almost invincible. +1 kills drones pretty fast as well. the reason why he won is beacuse of the control that huk exhibited killing the roaches with zealots and not getting kited. if you're not able to accomplice that just focus down the hatches and kill lings.
You're going to be odds on going against 3 base's of production and mineing. you have to do a lot of damage or be extremely cost efficent. roaches are what zergs are going to use to beat this or they will just die. killing lings and drones happen really fast but the roaches will cause you no end of problems. If you fail the zerg will take a fourth deny your third and you will lose with no chance of coming back.
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On February 28 2012 07:14 TheHansBecker wrote:
People who have done this or watched Huk: Do you recommend trying to snipe the zerg's third or straight up attacking the zerg's natural? Or does it even matter?
I saw HuK's game against Ret, and despite being a HuK fan it made me want to see him lose as brutally as possible. So, when I saw him crying before facing DRG I was pretty happy. I think it's a 100% lame build.
That being said, the "ideal" situation for an 8 gating Toss player is to force an engagement before the Zerg has fully reacted (ie. before he has his second big cycle of units coming out). A smart Zerg will let his 3rd go down if he knows what build he's facing, and try to accumulate as big an army as possible at his natural and play 2 base vs. 2 base to hold the push. You shouldn't allow this to happen. Since the Stalker/Zealots are more supply efficient than the Roach/Ling combination that will be defending this 99% of the time, you want to hit the natural where his units are to keep him from getting too big of an army. The warp-in mechanic negates his defender's advantage and any units streaming into battle from the 3rd should be isolated and picked off easily. At some point you can likely send 3-4 Zealots to the third to take it out, but the priority needs to be taking out the army and camping his larva to prevent the Zerg from accumulating one big force.
Frankly, I don't think it matters either way, you'll win 80% of your games if you execute the build properly and have any level of micro. The only thing that stops this, when well executed, is if it gets scouted way in advance and the opponent is masterful at sniping your proxying Probes before they can get up any Pylons, or some form of Baneling all-in.
I don't know why I'm helping P players further abuse the warp-in mechanic, but oh well.
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EPT
