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For those keeping tabs on his ladder builds, it's how he plays nearly every PvZ on his Depression and Sad top 5 GM accounts. As you may know, he doesn't lose much. He also used it just now + Show Spoiler +in MLG arena to beat Ret in game 3 on Metalopolis
He 15nexus/15 forges into about 35 probes. Gets a quick gateway before cannon and then cyber as soon as possible. Seems to make a zealot and 1-2 stalkers (never sentries) off his inital gateway while getting +1 attack and +1 armor. Starts throwing down gates at about 38 supply and then probes up a bit more after they are down and cuts at about ~40. Warps in a ton of zealots and sends them into mineral lines while he microes with his stalkers/sentries/a few zealots against he zerg army.
Seems to be very deadly, but is 8 gates really worth it? Why does he seem to win every game with this while people beat 6 gate all the time? Is he doing this as a response to the meta of quick 3rds and mutas or what? Just looking for somebody with more insight and tactical/strategic knowledge to explain what is going on with this build.
EDIT: or am I simply hero worshipping a 7gate with an extra gateway and different initial gateway units?
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He wasn't mining much gas and was warping in mostly Zealots, that's how he was able to use 8 Gates efficiently, if they had been Stalkers then 8 Gates would be too much if his warp-ins were on time.
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Basically imagine two protoss players 4 gating. That's what the 8 gate is.
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Depending on what you want to warp in, you will need different amounts of gateways.
Warpins + normal worker production + tech = 3-5 Gates
Warpins + Tech OR Worker production = 5-6 gates
Warpins only = 7-8 gates
Zealot sentry compositions obviously reqire more gateways, since your using 2 warpins for 150/100, while a stalker wil only use one for 150 / 50
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From what I can tell, the build seems to use a super-greedy opening to then make a very aggressive, allin-ish attack.
Yes, its very strong, but it would lose to most roach/ling all-ins pretty handily (especially if he can't get the scout off), as well for any 6-11 pools.
I can tell you personally that I would never want to face that particular build on ladder; and if I did, I think I would be forced to roach/ling.
or am I simply hero worshipping a 7gate with an extra gateway and different initial gateway units?
I think...maybe. Seems like Huks variation on the classic 2 base gateway timing that has been around for a long time (from the basic 5 gate with no tech, all the way to 8+ gate, immortal, obs allins, and such).
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On February 26 2012 08:27 DaeWang790 wrote:
Basically imagine two protoss players 4 gating. That's what the 8 gate is.
lol nice
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United States120 Posts
i used to do this build every game until i got sad from the bm  . it's really difficult to hold off because it hits so early that zerg cannot get a drone lead off 3 base and then out produce which is how they usually hold timings.
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Does anyone have a replay of HuK doing this or could anyone tell me how many assimilators he gets? I'd assume maximum 3 as he is not teching up any further than +1 Attack and Armor.
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On February 26 2012 08:43 JOJOsc2news wrote:
Does anyone have a replay of HuK doing this or could anyone tell me how many assimilators he gets? I'd assume maximum 3 as he is not teching up any further than +1 Attack and Armor.
As I said, it's double the 4 gate. So, usually only 2 gas. MC has an 8 gate build that also only uses two assimilators.
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It's far, far stronger than you guys are giving it credit for, particularly in a non-series format like ladder . That's why it gives HuK his stupid ladder win %.
The protoss ball is scary enough that zerg needs to really work at keeping it from rolling over his army, which means the zealot harass is absolulately GEE FKN GEE. 1/1 zeals in three different mineral lines is simply horrific to deal with even if your main army is not engaged, but with your force mostly tied up in a skirmish mid map or at your main choke, I don't even...
You would need to realise what it was and sac a lot of eco to spines, I can't see any other way since small ling floods will get crunched by 1/1 zeals and incidentally cut off your reinforcements.
In this wise it is far nastier than a 'double 4-gate', but it's apm / multitask requirement is far higher.
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Wow! I just used it for the first time on ladder. The timing is just so strong! Thanks for this
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
You have to remember that gateway counts are a bad way to measure resource spending, 10gate zealots will use less resources than 7gate stalker if you hit production cycles with all of them, and also take into account that high gate counts are often about a burst of units, and not what you can permanantly produce with (You cant even permanantly hold 3gate stalker production on 1 base, not even close with gate chronos, but people 4gate anyway because at the warpgate timing, you CAN afford the fourth stalker, and the timing is all that matters)
It seems like a strong timing in this case.
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have any1 found a replay of the game OP mentioned? haven't been able to locate it anywhere :S have any1 made a BO for this?
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I think he does it because he has very good micro, obviously you cannot do this on the ladder and expect the same results unless your micro is your best strength or one of the better in the game.I feel from looking at the build also it's nothing new just kind of a build to throw your opponent off guard if he hasn't already faced it before or something.
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On February 26 2012 23:43 eYeball wrote:
I think he does it because he has very good micro, obviously you cannot do this on the ladder and expect the same results unless your micro is your best strength or one of the better in the game.I feel from looking at the build also it's nothing new just kind of a build to throw your opponent off guard if he hasn't already faced it before or something.
It's not very hard to do. Shift clicking a few zealots into mineral lines while microing stalkers against roaches is pretty easy. It is probably defendable but is one of those strats that is 10x harder to defend than to be the offender in.
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does anybody have an vod or sth like that?
would be very helpfull for us
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On February 26 2012 08:27 DaeWang790 wrote:
Basically imagine two protoss players 4 gating. That's what the 8 gate is.
... cool just you you dont have forge upgrade on a 4 gate
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On February 26 2012 08:25 ZAiNs wrote:
He wasn't mining much gas and was warping in mostly Zealots, that's how he was able to use 8 Gates efficiently, if they had been Stalkers then 8 Gates would be too much if his warp-ins were on time.
I don't see that as particularly true...
1 base > 4.5 gates fully saturated... That's why you can see 5gates happening off 1 base, when you have 30 probes
I feel as if 8 gates on 2 bases is definitely possible because you essentially are doubling your production, if you chrono out a pile of probes and wait till +1 armour finishes (after +1 attack) I can't see how you wouldn't have enough money to support 7.5 to 8 gates.
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Whats so special about it in comparison to other 8gate allins we have been seeing for quite some time?
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EPT
