EPT[G]Marauder/Hellion All-in TvZ - Page 2
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
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Celestia
Mexico376 Posts
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
Question for you DrFUNKY! (since I play terran in teams) when would be a good time to fit in a CC, if you opted to not all in off one base? | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
 I'll see what I can do with it to make it into a non-all-in bo. How much do those SCVs add in the attack, anyways? Are they just random meatshields which you threw into the mix or do they serve a more planned out purpose? | ||
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
On February 12 2012 03:40 Antylamon wrote: That seems like a nice bo I'll see what I can do with it to make it into a non-all-in bo. How much do those SCVs add in the attack, anyways? Are they just random meatshields which you threw into the mix or do they serve a more planned out purpose? repair I think I use them for that more than a meat shield or attacking unit. | ||
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Vague
170 Posts
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Vague
170 Posts
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
On February 12 2012 04:16 Vague wrote: Thanks for the guide. Could you say a little about which maps are good for this build? I can imagine that this build isn't great in Tal' darim, for example. well, to put it plain and simple, the more open the natural is, the less likely you are to attack into >1 spine crawlers. If they scout it on a map like shakuras, you could have a hell of a time breaking through an evo, spine, queen wall only to be greeted by mass lings. Also, the shorter the rush distance, the better. I used this build VERY often on Xel'naga. | ||
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iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
-Blue flame would cut into your production, and make this all in a lot weaker, or a lot later( thus weaker), I don't think it's viable. | ||
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Atreides
United States2393 Posts
From Terran side of things, like I said denying scouting is so so so so important put depots around edges so that you can immediately spot ovie and get it with your two marines. I highly recommend against doing any sort of light bunker pressure for that reason alone. You NEED the two marines to kill scouting ovie. Also, IMO unless you kill natural expansion or at least most drones you might as well just gg out. Its REALLY hard to transition out. If they pull back up ramp with a bunch of units don't try and break it, (situational of course, but roaches and/or spines at top of ramp are a bitch) just kill nat go home and swap addons and make marine tank. (I personally don't expand here) When he tries to take expansion again your army should just crush him. It is VERY likely he is waiting on muta though and thats why he pulled into main so you need to get marine production asap. you allready have stim so 3 marines at a time should be fine vs 1 base muta. Your army is guaranteed to rickroll his so just don't die to the muta. Incidentally, on that not contrary to popular belief this build is like a hard counter to super fast two-base muta. Its basically a free win if your timings are crisp. However I think lower level players mess up the build and hit too late and then complain it dies to muta. Also, I believe OP mentioned a lot of this, but some maps are not good for this. Particularly Shakuras and Antiga since with the ramp, it is basically impossible to break even two spines. Basically, the standard defense against hellions stops you on these maps. On other maps you should be ok against 2 spines and often you can engage 1 at a time. Make sure your marauders shoot spines and queens not lings.... To those people who want to make this "not an all-in" I wouldn't bother. If you want a weaker, pressure, non-allin version just reactor expand first into marauder hellion but I personally don't like that much. The reason this is an all-in. is NOT because you bring scv.... (bothers me so much, how many people freak out about pulling scv for attacks) its all-in because of delayed expansion and tech. You are basically exactly as all-in whether you bring 10 scv or not and it makes it more effective. What people fail to realize is that in a Protoss or Zerg all-in you cut workers like mad, in a Terran all-in you still build the workers but you bring them with you!  I really think you are just gimping the build if you don't pull scv.Some of my thoughts. Nice guide, good build. | ||
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Troxle
United States486 Posts
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Celestia
Mexico376 Posts
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
I had a lot of games where i would kill almost everything, then die to 2 mutas. Also marine DPS is sick. However it seems you dont get stim (i didnt see it, havent watched a replay, but ive obv read the entire OP) I generally do a stim timing. Do you have an opinion on why yours is better? Or have i just completely mis-understood this. | ||
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
On February 12 2012 09:11 Squigly wrote: I was doing this for a long time (only in high dia, as in i sometimes play low masters on ladder). In the end i decided that having a reactor on the second rax was better. I had a lot of games where i would kill almost everything, then die to 2 mutas. Also marine DPS is sick. However it seems you dont get stim (i didnt see it, havent watched a replay, but ive obv read the entire OP) I generally do a stim timing. Do you have an opinion on why yours is better? Or have i just completely mis-understood this. I work stim in sometimes, It just leaves you like 1-2 hellions/marauders short when you push or delays it a bit.. This build is just what I've been comfortable doing, and generally gets the most units out. Stimming half of your marauders while busting the front spines could be useful. I'll see if I can find a replay of it with stim and include that BO. I haven't compared my build with other marauder hellion builds, it is possible that other variations could be more effective in different situations, and less effective and other. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On February 12 2012 10:08 DoctorFunk wrote: I work stim in sometimes, It just leaves you like 1-2 hellions/marauders short when you push or delays it a bit.. This build is just what I've been comfortable doing, and generally gets the most units out. Stimming half of your marauders while busting the front spines could be useful. I'll see if I can find a replay of it with stim and include that BO. I haven't compared my build with other marauder hellion builds, it is possible that other variations could be more effective in different situations, and less effective and other. I think you could get away better with reactor hellion, land rax, start mara and stim, and throw down 2 more naked rax instead of a CC. An go mara/hellion/marine scv all in. Hit right at stim. You'll, of course, be shorter on marauders, but you'd have stim and a 3-1 aggressive stance. | ||
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alepoff
140 Posts
I do this sometimes when I'm fed up with infestor junk, but I do it with stim. Very high winrate. | ||
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DoctorFunk
160 Posts
On February 12 2012 10:12 iAmJeffReY wrote: I think you could get away better with reactor hellion, land rax, start mara and stim, and throw down 2 more naked rax instead of a CC. An go mara/hellion/marine scv all in. Hit right at stim. You'll, of course, be shorter on marauders, but you'd have stim and a 3-1 aggressive stance. this sounds pretty good also, I'll try it out. I've been experimenting with a lot of 1 base all ins against Zerg and they're having a bit more success than I would have expected. I feel so dirty. | ||
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ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
Well, you're giving the terrans advice against these counters. You're not telling how to micro against it. I'd like to have the zerg point of view on this. | ||
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