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This is a standard macro focused build. It's very commonly seen on Polt's stream. The aim is to abuse a zerg who skimps on defense and depends on lings and spines to defend. Since you are only running on a single factory and a single barracks, it doesn't really have enough power to be aggressive against a large defensive roach force, but you can easily defend economic busts from roach ling, or ling baneling, or even roach ling baneling. Your purpose isn't to kill zerg, but to force him to make units that do not trade well against your composition and thus pull the worker count into your own favor.
The build order
+ Show Spoiler +10 depot
12 rax
13 gas
15 marine
16 oc
depot after oc
factory at 100 gas
reactor after 3 marines
harass with 3 marines + 1 scv
CC at 400 mins
swap factory and make techlab on rax
2 hellions (constant hellions up to 8-10)
depot
marauder + slow shells at 100% techlab
move out with 2-3 marauders and whatever marines you have left from your harass, rally marauders to your units
It's also very important to start walling in your natural with depots around your 3rd or 4th depot, because if you don't do well with your attack, you could easily get busted by zerg's ling counter.
Attacking zerg
You'll need to turn around if zerg has upwards of 3 spines, your marauders don't have the firepower to break the spines unless they're positioned badly such that there's at most 2 spines hitting your units. You need to let your hellions tank the spine while your marauders take them out. As long as you keep your hellions alive, you can kill a lot of zerglings. This push isn't really meant to kill off a zerg, though if they were too greedy it's certainly possible. You're mainly attempting to force a large amount of lings and pick them off before zerg can get enough lings to surround your entire force. If you can break zerg's spines without losing too many units, you have free reign to roast drones until his lings all pop. If your harass didn't go so great and you haven't really been able to kill any lings, you need to turn around and get off creep and save your hellions, because you will require them to scout any 2 base allin and deny zerg's third.
Transitioning
Going hellion marauder off 1fac1rax will leave you a large amount of minerals and depending on what you scout from zerg and your own style it's very flexible in transitioning to whatever you want to do. If you want to mech you take your second gas quickly and add on factories. I prefer either a fast 3rd CC if I think he's going infestor or 3rax port into a double medivac drop if he's going ling baneling muta.
A typical 3rax port bo might look like this:+ Show Spoiler +
stim after slow shells is done
2 more rax
lift factory and put one rax on reactor
reactor on factory
second gas
starport
ebay
swap starport and factory for double medivac
natural gasses
lift starport after 2 medivacs, swap rax onto reactor
load up marines into medivacs and drop zerg's third, main, or nat, depending
reactor on starport
techlab on factory, start siege
+1 weapons
ebay, armory
3rd cc
3more rax and a factory
etc
Maps that this is very strong on
open naturals, like XNC, taldarim, antiga, arid plateau, metalopolis, shattered
Maps that this is less strong on
closed naturals, like shakuras or entombed
Defending busts
He should have a pretty big ling count when you check with your first 2 hellions. If you're really suspicious and he doesn't have spines you can runby his queens to check his drone count. If you see more lings than he should have, do not go onto the creep and just hold the watch towers. He should move out for an allin by the time you have 6-8 hellions, so place bunkers by then. I normally get one bunker as I land my natural and then add on another 2 further back if he's allin. The trick to holding banelings is just target firing with your hellions because you can get a lot of banelings in splash, and letting your bunkers in the back deal with everything else. I don't really think any more than 1rax and 1fac is necessary to hold as long as you repair in time.
replays
http://drop.sc/103427
nydustiger - tries to defend with roaches (to be fair it's arid plateau)
http://drop.sc/103424
boei - good example of why this build isn't quite as strong on shakuras since i fail to break his single spine, but i felt like if i had made more hellions i might've been able to do it. regardless he is forced to make a lot of lings or be unable to take a third until his mutas are done, so i catch up in workers. don't try to drop against this many lings unless you are very confident in your multitasking or if you can get amazing positioning behind the minerals and his buildings
http://drop.sc/103426
jitttrrriii - tbh i don't do so great here, i get too greedy and want to go straight for his queen and drones without killing the spines first. with the spines still up he's not so afraid of a second attack or allin, and i also probably don't make enough hellions here. the worker count is still pretty in favor of me after the attack, however.
i do have some more replays but they're kind of freewin because zerg fucks up defending real bad
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Thanks for the build! Im always trying to find ways to punish zerg when they skimp on defense!
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Please don't teach Terrans this
For the love of God please don't
My winrate vs terran is low enough already
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Do you have the kill variation of this build where you go stim before shells and cut scvs to add 2 rax? I remember seeing that variation several times in pro games and such, and not so much the stimless harass one here.
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Wasn't this build when it was first done somewhat infamous for getting murdered by a quick mutas?
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He should have a pretty big ling count when you check with your first 2 hellions. If you're really suspicious and he doesn't have spines you can runby his queens to check his drone count. If you see more lings than he should have, do not go onto the creep and just hold the watch towers. He should move out for an allin by the time you have 6-8 hellions, so place bunkers by then. I normally get one bunker as I land my natural and then add on another 2 further back if he's allin. The trick to holding banelings is just target firing with your hellions because you can get a lot of banelings in splash, and letting your bunkers in the back deal with everything else. I don't really think any more than 1rax and 1fac is necessary to hold as long as you repair in time.
What if they are going for a roach ling baneling bust DRG and Leenock style. This build would seem pretty weak to that.
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so what happens if the zerg goes for really fast mutas to kill something like this?
or rather when does it hit oO
something like this -> his fast mutas kills like hellion marauder pushes from 2rax 1 fact pushes/etc he says oo
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On February 03 2012 03:31 zhurai wrote:
so what happens if the zerg goes for really fast mutas to kill something like this?
or rather when does it hit oO
something like this -> his fast mutas kills like hellion marauder pushes from 2rax 1 fact pushes/etc he says oo
the fastest mutas possible comes out at around 8:30 but that means 1 spine and no lings which means 4 hellions and 2 marauders will rape the crap out of the natural exp before mutas come out.
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BTW you should really get stim instead of concussive... what you going to slow down? zerglings? you want them to kill spines and buildings/queens quickly and the timing stays pretty much the same and you also have stim ready for a possible 2 medivac marine drop which is a good followup to this also if you go cc first rax into gas and go reactor hellion you can add 2 rax marauders and get stim to do a bit more powerful push, this is not in anyway all in just a pressure move kind of like 3 gate
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On February 03 2012 03:38 Pulimuli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 03:31 zhurai wrote:
so what happens if the zerg goes for really fast mutas to kill something like this?
or rather when does it hit oO
something like this -> his fast mutas kills like hellion marauder pushes from 2rax 1 fact pushes/etc he says oo the fastest mutas possible comes out at around 8:30 but that means 1 spine and no lings which means 4 hellions and 2 marauders will rape the crap out of the natural exp before mutas come out.
the fast muta build comes out around 10 minutes so theres no problem there, the standard is around 11:00-12:00
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it hits around 40ish supply which is before zerg even morphs lair. zerg stopped going really fast mutas because 6 mutas don't really do much to terran and it leaves you with terrible economy to defend any kind of bio push with ling baneling.
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On February 03 2012 03:38 Pulimuli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 03:31 zhurai wrote:
so what happens if the zerg goes for really fast mutas to kill something like this?
or rather when does it hit oO
something like this -> his fast mutas kills like hellion marauder pushes from 2rax 1 fact pushes/etc he says oo the fastest mutas possible comes out at around 8:30 but that means 1 spine and no lings which means 4 hellions and 2 marauders will rape the crap out of the natural exp before mutas come out.
So I take it that this isn't the build where you stay on for a hellion marauder timing attack.
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On February 03 2012 03:40 KAmaKAsa wrote:
BTW you should really get stim instead of concussive... what you going to slow down? zerglings? you want them to kill spines and buildings/queens quickly and the timing stays pretty much the same and you also have stim ready for a possible 2 medivac marine drop which is a good followup to this also if you go cc first rax into gas and go reactor hellion you can add 2 rax marauders and get stim to do a bit more powerful push, this is not in anyway all in just a pressure move kind of like 3 gate
slow's for catching queens and roaches. stim takes too long, i don't feel safe pressuring with hellion marauder by the time it's done, i think it's like 6 marauders before stim finishes?
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On February 03 2012 03:54 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 03:40 KAmaKAsa wrote:
BTW you should really get stim instead of concussive... what you going to slow down? zerglings? you want them to kill spines and buildings/queens quickly and the timing stays pretty much the same and you also have stim ready for a possible 2 medivac marine drop which is a good followup to this also if you go cc first rax into gas and go reactor hellion you can add 2 rax marauders and get stim to do a bit more powerful push, this is not in anyway all in just a pressure move kind of like 3 gate slow's for catching queens and roaches. stim takes too long, i don't feel safe pressuring with hellion marauder by the time it's done, i think it's like 6 marauders before stim finishes?
its 8 maradaurs with 2 rax+reactor hellion.. and i always do the build if the zerg steals my gas ^^
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On February 03 2012 03:54 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 03:40 KAmaKAsa wrote:
BTW you should really get stim instead of concussive... what you going to slow down? zerglings? you want them to kill spines and buildings/queens quickly and the timing stays pretty much the same and you also have stim ready for a possible 2 medivac marine drop which is a good followup to this also if you go cc first rax into gas and go reactor hellion you can add 2 rax marauders and get stim to do a bit more powerful push, this is not in anyway all in just a pressure move kind of like 3 gate slow's for catching queens and roaches. stim takes too long, i don't feel safe pressuring with hellion marauder by the time it's done, i think it's like 6 marauders before stim finishes?
I really dislike the slow.. and its still only 3-4 marauders and the stim is done and its much more powerful with stim, and most zergs dont get roaches to counter just like 4 hellions and obviously you try to hide the rest of the hellions till you push
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marauder is 30s and stim is 170s so it's like 5 marauders and travel time for stim to finish. i feel like that's a little too late because zerg starts to make a big round of lings around that time to clear out your hellions anyways, but maybe you have more success doing it that way. both are probably viable.
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On February 03 2012 06:31 KAmaKAsa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 03:54 rauk wrote:On February 03 2012 03:40 KAmaKAsa wrote:
BTW you should really get stim instead of concussive... what you going to slow down? zerglings? you want them to kill spines and buildings/queens quickly and the timing stays pretty much the same and you also have stim ready for a possible 2 medivac marine drop which is a good followup to this also if you go cc first rax into gas and go reactor hellion you can add 2 rax marauders and get stim to do a bit more powerful push, this is not in anyway all in just a pressure move kind of like 3 gate slow's for catching queens and roaches. stim takes too long, i don't feel safe pressuring with hellion marauder by the time it's done, i think it's like 6 marauders before stim finishes? I really dislike the slow.. and its still only 3-4 marauders and the stim is done and its much more powerful with stim, and most zergs dont get roaches to counter just like 4 hellions and obviously you try to hide the rest of the hellions till you push
Slow is the shit. I approve of it. You can snipe queens a LOT easier. Sniping queens + 2 OCs puts your econ and macro SO SO SO SO far ahead of the zergs. Not to mention you hit much earlier with shells.
It's not much more powerful with stim, it's more delayed and more involved. You can do more damage early, in my opinion, than waiting for stim.
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On February 03 2012 03:30 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Wasn't this build when it was first done somewhat infamous for getting murdered by a quick mutas?
Yep. MVP did the stim version of this push (the allin version in fact) in the GSL like one year ago. I don't remember who was his opponent but MVP spawned top xelnaga caverns.
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On February 03 2012 03:24 CryMore wrote:
Do you have the kill variation of this build where you go stim before shells and cut scvs to add 2 rax? I remember seeing that variation several times in pro games and such, and not so much the stimless harass one here.
What are you asking for exactly :p you said it yourself. You open reactor hellion and make tech on rax and get stim right away, but also add 2nd rax and keep making rauders and hellions, push when stim is done. Might as well bring some scv's cos it's cheesy as f- anyway. Don't do it on shakuras, works on the rest of the maps. I think it was a popular beta build or something, don't see it that often anymore.
edit: To be clear, this is 1base allin. If you stim push with the expo build, you die to quick muta's.
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i do something similar to this. marauders and hellions are great, however you dont need stim because marauders without stim are still super strong. instead, make steady amounts of marauder/hellion WHILE pumping out insane economy, and then expect when mutas will arrive based upon how many lings/spines the zerg has to defend your marauder/hellion
as long as you dont skimp on economy, you can always have enough defense ready for when mutas arrive, and marauders and hellions are never bad units to have (marauders tank banelings easy, 10hellions can kill 100lings easily). i normally stop at about 10 marauders
so pretty much, make normal amounts of marauders and hellions while expanding and pumping economy. eventualy get 3 bases and defend 3 frons with marines/some turrets / some thors. get maybe 3-4 tanks (thats it) on 3 bases and be defensive then get 200food containing 10hellions, 10marauders, 4tanks, and EVERYTHING ELSE is marines, thors, ghosts, and vikings (for anti-broodlord) then march your 200food deathball across the map with 2ravens for PDD against muta/corrupter and just destroy the zerg and any broodlords he has.
because you have marauders and hellions, you no longer need to use siege mode as a crutch against a 200food zerg, because marauders/hellions destroy ling/bane anyway. so just walk across the map not worrying about siegemode and destroy the zergs 200food army and win
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EPT
